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getting ready to pull the trigger on my first build.

Discussion in 'System Builder's Advice' started by tony5, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. tony5 New Member

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    Ok, so starting my very first build, Unfortunately it will have to be severely budgeted however. So I’ve gone ahead and scoped out parts I feel will not only be good enough per se, but within my budget of around $300ish. I’ve narrowed it down as much as I can, first and foremost let me just point out to you that this machine will NOT be used for any kind of gaming what so ever. it will mainly be used to encode and edit videos using programs such as sony vegas and converxtodvd, downloading large files like movies and other media, and of course web browsing and youtube vids. OS will be XP. So here goes

    CPU: e5200 $69.99 OH, I plan to O/C this puppy to around 3.2 because if I needed anymore, that would call for a new cooler. I might be better off spending that money to buy a better cpu ?

    MOBO: gigabyte Ga- g31m-es2l $52.99
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128357


    HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 640 GB 640gb 32mb 74.99
    http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Black-WD6401AALS/dp/B001GQYYSQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1241036609&sr=8-2

    CASE: COOLER MASTER Elite 341 $29.99
    http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0305925

    PSU: Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX12V $28.99 A/R
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153023

    RAM: corsair ddr2 TWIN2X4096-8500C5 $34 A/R
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145215

    total: = $ 290.95 not too shabby.


    So I just need some advice and or recommendations as to what would be most beneficial to what I will be using this for. Of course I’d like as much speed as I can get away with for the money!! I am also looking at maybe an AMD kuma 9950 build, but haven’t researched mobo’s and such. All recommendations are welcomed even if they’re way off from what I currently have; I am not set on anything just yet.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  2. angelkiller

    angelkiller

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    On that budget everything looks good. I can't think of anywhere to save some money or to get better parts. TT PSU isn't my favorite, but it'll do for a non-graphics card setup. WD Black is only $5 more expensive then the WD6400AAKS, so why go blue? 4GB memory, good. CM case, good. Coincidentally, I just purchased that same motherboard for a backup system. So far, I love it. It's my favorite mATX board in recent times. I was presently surprised when I saw that there was a MIT (Gigabyte's OCing menu) in the BIOS. It's a $50 board! Happily running a E2180 @ 300x10 for a day now. The CPU is also a good choice. Very OC-able. So what you have is about the best you can get for that budget imo.

    That said, cores are king when it comes to video editing. I would strongly urge you to try to fit in a triple core or quad core CPU into your setup. However, there's no way to do this on $300. If you stretched to $350, You could get a used Q8200 instead of the E5200. You could probably get 2.8GHz out of it too. Even if you don't, a 2.33GHz Quad > 3.5GHz E5200 when all 4 cores are used. Video encoding definitely utilizes 4 cores. You could also go the AMD route, but I don't recommend it. You'd need a $50 780G motherboard. Then you'd need either a used Phenom I quad core CPU or a used Phenom II 7x0. However both of those will cost around $100. The problem is that the Q8200 will beat a Phenom I and because of the extra core, the Q8200 will be a better choice than the Phenom II 7x0.

    So I'd definitely urge you to try to save up some cash so you can get some more cores, because extra cores helps alot with video encoding. If you can't get the money, you've picked out a solid system. GL :)
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  3. unibrow1990

    unibrow1990 New Member

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  4. angelkiller

    angelkiller

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    Expanding on the X2 7850 suggestion, I'd like to point you to this article. Anand concluded that the CPUs are essentially equal. The E5300 is better in non-gaming aspects while the X2 7850 is better in games. However, I'd like to add a couple of points. First, OCing ability was not taken into considereation. You'll notice that the E5300 is competitive with the X2 while the X2 has a 200MHz clock advantage. Clock for clock the E5300 is probably a bit faster. But if you do OC them, you'll prolly get higher on the E5300 than on the X2. So a higher clock plus being faster clock for clock, makes the Intel chip better imo. Second, the efficinecy was not taken into consideration. The X2 is based on the realatively inefficient Phenom I archeteture, which causes it to be quite power hungry. While this is a realatively minor differenciation, the E5300 is much more efficient, even when comparing at equal clock speeds. So I'd pick the E5300 over that X2. And the E5200 is essentially the same as the E5300 so my points stay valid for the E5200.

    I've already given reasons why not to get the PII X3 720.
  5. unibrow1990

    unibrow1990 New Member

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    The kuma's overclock quite well to from what I here, and i think that is the same or a similer motherboard to what someone unlocked all 4 cores on a Kuma with recently though i would never hedge my bets on that. However I have heard that the core 2's are much better at video encoding like Angelkiller said so i would probably stick with the pentium for that reason.
  6. Darren

    Darren New Member

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    What is the chances of you increasing your budget slightly by $60 and getting the Phenom II X3 710 or Phenom II X3 720 for a $80 increase. Performance wise you'd be better off if you're encoding videos.

    Is Sony Vegas and Cconverxtodvd multi-thread compatible?
  7. tony5 New Member

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    hey thanks angelkiller. i am tempted to grab the q8200 now. would the rest of my build make due if i were to replace the e5200 with the q8200? the cheapest ive found the q8200 was 144.99 shipped. if i were to swap the cpu's (q8200 for the e5200) and leave everything else the same it would run me exactly $356.01 (got some cred at the egg), if i leave it as is and go with the e 5200 my total would be $275.95 making it about an $81 difference. in your opinion is $81 worth the difference from one to the other, or like you mentioned earlyer would o/c the e5200 to 3.5 make it a bit less of a difference, of course that would mean caughing up $20-30 bones on a cooling system, which would mean about $50 diff in that case. its just that i am not supposed to be spending what i am spending but after a while of saying "what the heck" you know how it goes... i'am not a serious movie editor anyway, just make the casual home vids here and there, and rip movies from online here and there.
  8. Darren

    Darren New Member

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    Q8200 @ $144.99 isn't a fantastic deal considering that the X3 720 BE is cheaper, faster and overclocks further for @ $130.

    Edit:

    To be fair the Q8200 does have that extra core, but in real terms will it equate to performance today?

    Edit 2:

    The threadstarter should read this, its 4 pages.

    http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/amd-phenom-2-720-810-920-p1.html
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  9. n-ster

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    Better HDD

    I know it's only 500gb, but it's on ONE platter... MUCH faster the 2 or 3 platter drives... also it's 15$ cheaper... I'm guessing that the one you chose is probably 2 320gb platters

    Also, if you get the 720BE, you probably won't need a cooler to OC it, since it is know to run SUPER DUPER CRAZILY cool :) You could also possibly unlock a 4th core... (though you need a good mobo (SB750) and the right batch (best is 0904))

    IMO, just save up and then get a great PC! All you would need is like 500$... maybe bump your budget to 400$?

    If you aren't a very intensive PC user at all, then that's another thing...
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  10. angelkiller

    angelkiller

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    I think the rest of the build would be OK if you got the quad. If you got an aftermarket heatsink, you should be able to hit much higher than 3.5GHz, me thinks. Maybe in the 4GHz range. Your CPU would be the only thing holding the OC back as the motherboard is rated for a 333MHz bus and 333x13=4.3GHz. (That doesn't mean you're gonna get 4.3GHz, it just means that your motherboard can support a 4.3GHz E5300 with ease.) Now here's the hard part. Is the $50 worth it? The more video editing/encoding that you do the more 'worth it' the $50 will be. But you also gotta consider how easily you can get the $50. I can't really make this decision. (sorry) But I will say that a $50 upgrade to a Q8200 is a good deal imo. Even if you don't, you get a 3.5+GHz E5300, which is still really fast.

    That is the price new. The one I have been advocating for is used and costs $100, which makes it a better deal than the X3 720. Even at new prices, $15 extra for and extra core is worth it imo. I think the extra core definitely helps in certain applications.

    Hmmm. That drive will be faster in sequential reads due to platter density, so you're right n-ster. However, from the reviews that I've seen, this drive has an access time above 15ms, while the WD6400AAKS has an access time around 12ms. On random reads (which happens extremely frequently, the WD will be quicker. And 320GB/platter is no slouch. Average reads can get up to 90MB/sec. (Compared to ~110MB/sec) Honestly, I'd get the WD because it's plenty fast already, it's larger, and has a lower access time.
  11. n-ster

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    but the one I suggested is cheaper, and does whatever he does take advantage of the faster MB/sec? I'm thinking so... not sure but yea... lol
  12. tony5 New Member

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    might maybe do $60 but the cost of another mobo im sure will offset my target price even more. maybe you can suggest an efficient yet cost efffective mobo + 710 combo? i mean this is what this thread is all about isnt it?



    great points. with hdd's getting cheaper by the minute and there not being a BIG difference speedwise between the drives, and the fact it's going to take me a long time before i hit the point where i'll miss the extra 140gb anyway, this seems like a good route. plus i save $15.

    thanks for that. the 720 would cost me $151.54 after tax, and thats before what i imagine will be a more costly mobo. the reviews on this chip are awsome though.
  13. tony5 New Member

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    Thanks alot guys for all of your input thus far. so far i am leaning towards using the original components i listed minus maybe going with the hard drive n-ster recommended, since I ‘am yet to hear that my build "isnt" solid or wont work for what i want. is it the best? no. but i think it will serve as an awesome system for what i am dishing out money wise. right now i am working with absolute crap. the computer i have looks like something somebody threw away, and i dont mean externally. so right now the goal is to get something quick and cheap before anything, which i think i will more than accomplish with e5200 build. it'll be like going from a kia to a honda, the benz comes later when my budget opens up a bit more. id really like to get my hands on the q8200 and just missed a sale microcenter had where they went for $99. I’ll take that as a sign of a price decline hopefully opening up a window for me to scoop one up once they really start to dip knowing my system can handle it..
  14. n-ster

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    interesting thought... but my philosophy is, that if you could just buy a better one NOW, you won't need to later, and that the final cost will be less... But this depends on what you want and need to do now and what you will fo later with your rig... will you EVER be gaming? Will you EVER to extreme CPU stuff? or will you just do MODERATE ones?

    For a PII 720BE build, I'm thinking that the final price A/R will be 360$ or so... (720 BE 140$ shipped from the egg and 63.50 after ship board) or like 410$ A/R for PII 940...

    If you plan on gaming later and still doing encoding, getting a 100$ shipped board with PII 720BE or PII 940 would be great (415$ or 465$)

    So yes your build is solid, but it depends... If you spend 12-14 hours infront of your comp a day, then you should IMO spend 465$... but you you spend merely 12-14 hours per week, and you don't do intensive stuff, your build is GREAT... but remember the future :)
  15. thebluebumblebee

    thebluebumblebee

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    I'd step up to a (IMHO) better and quieter PSU. A big indicator of the quality difference between these PSU's is how many amps on the 12v rail. TT=18, Corsair=33! Yet the Corsair is only "rated" for 20 watts more. If you plan on overclocking, the first thing you need is clean, stable power. My rule: NEVER scrimp on the PSU. From JonnyGuru.com: "You can tell a power supply is an ancient design by the presence of a -5V rail, which has been gone from the ATX spec for years now." and, "So, there you have it folks. It just doesn't pay to try and save that extra $50 on your build budget by buying cheaper power supplies." The TT unit's design is from the Pentium III days! Also note that the efficiency rating for the TT is only 65% while the Corsair is "up to 85%". That means that at least 35% of the electricity from the wall is wasted with the TT PSU! You may also want to read this. Also, if, in the future, you want to upgrade or maybe add something like CUDA with a video card, you'd have to upgrade the PSU at the same time. Maybe think of it this way, would you buy a new car and then get gas for it from some guy's tank "around back" that no one knows how long its been there? Or, would you get a 3/4 ton pickup with a 100HP 4 cylinder engine?

    I'd have to vote for the WD 640GB Blue - it's quieter than the black - and better rated than Seagate.

    Think about noise. You don't want a "hairdryer" sitting next to you while you're trying to listen to something else.

    Question for everyone else: Do I remember correctly that the integrated video on the 780G and/or the 790GX can help with video encoding? This may be an advantage for the AMD argument. I read too much and remember too little.:ohwell: There's something about the G31 chipset that bothers me but I can't remember what it is.

    I can't help but feeling that you will quickly outgrow a G31 motherboard, and I'm not talking gaming. The performance of the integrated video may stop you in your tracks. I have to agree with those who are asking for a $500 budget. I had a 70 year old friend (he died recently) who went to a PC store (before I knew him) with a $ figure in mind. They built him a system that seemed to fit his needs, but they did not take into account the guy's curiosity and insatiable appetite for knowledge. Within 1 year, he was banging his head on the wall and pestering me about why his system could not do this and that and begging his wife for an upgrade which she could not understand why he needed it. (in July of 2005, they built him a Socket A Sempron 2200, IDE only, with integrated video that could not even do Microsoft Virtual Earth.) Maybe I've spent so much time on this because of Bob and how much I miss him.:cry:

    I don't think I'd do integrated video on anything less than an AMD 780G (but if you want to overclock AMD, you should have the SB750 South Bridge). If you want to go Intel, how about a P45 MB with a 9000 series video card from Nvidia or 4000 series from ATI (passively cooled)?
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  16. JrRacinFan

    JrRacinFan Served 5k and counting ...

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  17. n-ster

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    better RAM for the price A/R

    Better RAM B/R

    with shipping, the RAM you suggested isn't worth it compared to these :)

    IMO, I think I understand you needs, and with what JR and I suggested, you'll have a nice system... At worst, you'll upgrade in a year :)

    I think we didn't realise your needs so much, since we are used to recommending stuff for gaming... You want a cheap computer, and compared to the garbage you have now, you'll think your running a i7 920 at 4.6ghz :laugh:
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  18. JrRacinFan

    JrRacinFan Served 5k and counting ...

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  19. n-ster

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    depends... how much is shipping? nvm I'll check lol I realised how lazy that sounded

    OMFG I thought it was like 10$ shipping or something... I stand corrected (2.99 egg saver)

    The RAM you link is therefore the best :) well I consider the G-skills equal, but as a brand I prefer Crucials
    IMO get the G-skills if you're scared of OCing... actually, wouldn't G-skills be better for him considering the fact that it's going to be on a 30$ board?

    Actually, no... IMO all 3 would be the same performance... What considering the board I say G-skills... correct me if I'm wrong :)
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  20. n-ster

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  21. tony5 New Member

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    thanks , i was looking at that one before. quick update as to the build. after snooping around on slickdeals this morning i have a new found confidence about actually finding a quad in my range. i seen alot of great deals that have come in gone leaving me the impression that with just a little more patience i might actually find a really nice mobo/quad cpu combo. for example i found that microcenter a few days ago was selling the q8200 for $99, and frys has it on clearance for $89 (to bad my local frys has sold out), thats very liitle more then the e5200 i had been looking at. i'am still very green when it comes to this stuff and getting a quad never even crossed my mind untill yesterday thanks to you guys. btw, whats wrong with the original ram i had listed http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145215 ? just curious.

    nice heads up on the psu deal thebluebumblebee, corsair seems to be pretty fool proof.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  22. thebluebumblebee

    thebluebumblebee

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    $45, after MIR, for that quality of a PSU is a no brainer
  23. tony5 New Member

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    UPDATE: i was able to place a hold on a q8200 for the $89 (open box but at that price who cares). had a friend of a friend who just happens to work at frys, small world!. this is substantially less then i had anticipated a quad would run me. can somebody recommend a board to go with this, better a board with integrated video? they also have a nice mother board combo deal on a amd 710 that’s ends tomorrow http://http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=7762053&subid=25639009&type= for 129.99 + tax.
  24. n-ster

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    wow that's a nice price o_O so either you get the 90$ quad + 30$ board or the 130$+tax deal hmmm...

    btw you messed up your link here it is :)

    The memory you suggested is fine, but you pay more up front etc... anyways, the memory I quoted is cheap as hell o_O

    let's see... I personally would go with the Quad... both mobos are sucky anyways, and for what you are doing the quad seems better to me... and it'll be 25$ cheaper... but wait for others opinions :) (kinda super duper tired right now so....)
  25. n-ster

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    Good deal I suggest this actually... You'll have a nice GPU that I'm sure you'll need at one point... so 350$ + PSU + CASE... so 380$ + PSU... so If you go for corsair one, A/R, it'll be 425$... Or ask him how much without GPU.. I'm sure he'll give you an amazing price :)

    EDIT: nvm, I asked him for you :)
    tony5 says thanks.

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