Got a Headache From Thinking: i7-6700K or i7-5820K

[Viruzz]

So im tired of thinking about this, I cant decide, dont want to make any mistake since I want to buy a system for 3-5 years and only replace the GPU unless something crazy comes out (like ZEN comes out with 16 cores and kicks intels ass and we finally get some healthy competition, man can dream..)

In both cases its going to be used with this Water Cooling kit: Fractal Design Kelvin S24
Im also getting FD R5 Case, its perfect for this kit, silent and has excellent airflow.

P.S. Guys thanks for letting me know that there is no need to upgrade but thats not what I asked. I asked which one to choose, im 100% upgrading since I have x2 GTX970 and I cant use SLI on my current system and I cant return it since its open box.

 

[GhostRyder]

If it was me, the 5820K would be my choice mostly because of the following:

1: 2 More cores (4 threads total)
2: The Haswell architecture maxes out most games already well below 4ghz
3: The Skylake has less PCIE lanes than Haswell-E (I know they have more this time but its still less unless I missed something)
4: Your going to get more distance in games in the future even with lets say 10% less on a clock to clock basis with the extra cores.
5: More room for expansion on the motherboard (X99 vs Z170)

That is my opinion of course!

 

[horik]

Just wait and see some real performance results and whole system price.

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

The review for skylake is already out on anandtech . There is an ipc improvement from Haswell. http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/9

But from my eyes it is not a massive improvement over a 5820k if the program is multi-threaded aware. So I would still go with a 5820k still personally.

The real question here is do you really need or required the added performance from your current rig?

 

[EarthDog]

Id wait until Skylake-E comes out looking at the rig in your signature...

 

[happita]

The real question here is do you really need or required the added performance from your current rig?

Just what I was going to say. Going to either a Skylake or 5820k platform (new CPU/MOBO/RAM) won't be an improvement worth investing in IMO. As I see it, the rig you currently have will last 3 years with just upgrading the GPU as far as I can tell unless I'm missing something.

 

[Viruzz]

If it was me, the 5820K would be my choice mostly because of the following:

1: 2 More cores (4 threads total)
2: The Haswell architecture maxes out most games already well below 4ghz
3: The Skylake has less PCIE lanes than Haswell-E (I know they have more this time but its still less unless I missed something)
4: Your going to get more distance in games in the future even with lets say 10% less on a clock to clock basis with the extra cores.
5: More room for expansion on the motherboard (X99 vs Z170)

That is my opinion of course!

Ok, so for sake of discussion ill try to count your argument:

1. No need for more PCIe lanes, the 26 is enough for SLI and everything else on board (we moved to PCIe v3, and based on benchmarks PCIE ver2 at x8 is enough and more lanes dont makes no diffrence, PCIe ver2.0 at x8 = PCIe ver3 at x4, so having x2 PCIe3 at x8 its like Gen2 x16)
2. Z170 Mobos have tons of new features, I checked and even top X99 mobos have just one M2 connector and its PCI Express only, Some Z170 mobos have x2 M2 connectors and they support both PCIe mode and SATA6
3. Native USB 3.1
4. Intels Alpine Ridge chip in Gigabytes mobos

Thats like off the top of my head


P.S. Im also swinging more to the 5820K side, I know that if its NOT overclocked it IS slower in games then regular i7 models because if the 2 extra cores not used then its just the clock and its slower.But it looks like its rather easy to overclock it to 4.5Ghz, based on some web sites looks like overclocking 5820K is even easier then the next one 5930K, so no need to pay more.

Actually if im buying a six core ill just get the cheapest one, 5820K see how it overclocks, 4.3Ghz or 4.5Ghz should be pretty much the same and then keep it until Broadwell comes out, Broadwell going to be the last CPU supported by x99 chipset, so ill sell the 5820K for people that need one for cheaper and get me a broadwell, should be enough for 3 years if it overclocks good.

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

Just what I was going to say. Going to either a Skylake or 5820k platform (new CPU/MOBO/RAM) won't be an improvement worth investing in IMO. As I see it, the rig you currently have will last 3 years with just upgrading the GPU as far as I can tell unless I'm missing something.

Yep OP rig is even more powerful than what I have, the rig in his signature the 4690 is still a very capable cpu and also that GTX 970. Any upgrade from that will be relatively minor currently unless a program that is heavily threaded is used. Otherwise they will be no major perceptible improvement you can get from an upgrade.

 

[Viruzz]

Just what I was going to say. Going to either a Skylake or 5820k platform (new CPU/MOBO/RAM) won't be an improvement worth investing in IMO. As I see it, the rig you currently have will last 3 years with just upgrading the GPU as far as I can tell unless I'm missing something.

Well I just have i5-4690, its non K and I have H97 mobo (Gigabyte Gaming 3, its one of the cheaper)
This one was purchased as stop gap 8 months ago until something better comes out.

1. I already Purchased and Open another GTX970, where i live i cant returned opened item, so I need a SLI capable mobo.
2. I want to get a new K system with water cooling and overclock, I like messing with it and I want to build a PROPER system that will last me 3-4 or even 5 years (with GPU swaps of course)
when I say proper it means I want the top i7 x4 core CPU or comparable 6 core (dont have money for 8 core, not rich yet)
3. I would like to probably get a PCIE M2 slot, maybe ill get me one of them uber fast Samsung SM951
4. I fell like i want to build a new PC to milk MGS5 and F4
5. If im building a new system ill be donating the "old one" well its just 8 months old (minus SSDs, bluray, GPUs) to a single mom kid, (no im not hitting on his mom)

 

[EarthDog]

Get Skylake... /thread.

 

[GhostRyder]

Ok, so for sake of discussion ill try to count your argument:

1. No need for more PCIe lanes, the 26 is enough for SLI and everything else on board (we moved to PCIe v3, and based on benchmarks PCIE ver2 at x8 is enough and more lanes dont makes no diffrence, PCIe ver2.0 at x8 = PCIe ver3 at x4, so having x2 PCIe3 at x8 its like Gen2 x16)
2. Z170 Mobos have tons of new features, I checked and even top X99 mobos have just one M2 connector and its PCI Express only, Some Z170 mobos have x2 M2 connectors and they support both PCIe mode and SATA6
3. Native USB 3.1
4. Intels Alpine Ridge chip in Gigabytes mobos

Thats like off the top of my head


P.S. Im also swinging more to the 5820K side, I know that if its NOT overclocked it IS slower in games then regular i7 models because if the 2 extra cores not used then its just the clock and its slower.But it looks like its rather easy to overclock it to 4.5Ghz, based on some web sites looks like overclocking 5820K is even easier then the next one 5930K, so no need to pay more.

Actually if im buying a six core ill just get the cheapest one, 5820K see how it overclocks, 4.3Ghz or 4.5Ghz should be pretty much the same and then keep it until Broadwell comes out, Broadwell going to be the last CPU supported by x99 chipset, so ill sell the 5820K for people that need one for cheaper and get me a broadwell, should be enough for 3 years if it overclocks good.

Well I agree with you but I was just pointing more for the long run on the 5820K. From reading the reviews I have seen (some vary greatly) the general consensus is the single threaded performance is not even at a 10% difference overall on a clock to clock basis and the power savings is minimal as well. The new features of the Z170 chipset is definitely nice, but the difference you might see is probably more minimal especially when comparing the native USB 3.1 and the new support on the M2.

Its up to you what you decide is more worthwhile to have, but frankly I would rather (Especially after seeing the skylake reviews) have the extra 2 physical cores since getting an i7 5820K in the range of 4.2 - 4.5 is not a stretch. If you are going for longevity, I would put more money in the 5820K lasting longer than the 6700K for pure performance, but that is my opinion.

 

[Viruzz]

Get Skylake... /thread.

Wait wait, I see you have 5820K, your not happy with it? will you be getting Skylake instead?
Why Skylake and not 5820K, you have one so i want to hear from you...
How its overcloks? Is it faster in games then your 4790K?

 

[EarthDog]

The 5820K rig is my daily driver. I will not be changing it.

The 4790K rig is for reviews. I will be upgrading to Skylake as our review platform will be switching and selling the 4790K stuff.

I am not a good barometer to judge by 'what I own' as a lot of it was necessitated because of reviews and not wants or performance.

As far as performance goes in games, check out some reviews (Anandtech I believe does game comparisons). BUt people so far have not mislead you.. 5820K is Haswell. It will only benefit you when you use more than 8 threads (which not many games at all do). Regarding overclocking the 5820K, it, like the other haswells, should end up around 4.2-4.7Ghz depending on the silicon and your cooling solution.

 

[Viruzz]

Well I agree with you but I was just pointing more for the long run on the 5820K. From reading the reviews I have seen (some vary greatly) the general consensus is the single threaded performance is not even at a 10% difference overall on a clock to clock basis and the power savings is minimal as well. The new features of the Z170 chipset is definitely nice, but the difference you might see is probably more minimal especially when comparing the native USB 3.1 and the new support on the M2.

Its up to you what you decide is more worthwhile to have, but frankly I would rather (Especially after seeing the skylake reviews) have the extra 2 physical cores since getting an i7 5820K in the range of 4.2 - 4.5 is not a stretch. If you are going for longevity, I would put more money in the 5820K lasting longer than the 6700K for pure performance, but that is my opinion.

Wasn't arguing with you before, I just thrown counter arguments for sake of discussion not to be rude or anything.

In reality I have no idea when USB 3.1 will be needed, the deal is that when I use external HDDs (And I use a lot for movie and anime collections) USB 3.0 is already faster then mechanical SATA6 drives.
And I dont see a need for external SSD ever and with current SSD's USB 3.0 is fast enough to not feel a difference.

But M.2 is useful, im eyeballing Samsung SM951 512GB (its near 400$), I usually use separate OS drive and separate game install drives, right now its samsung 840 evo 120Gb each.
But this one is SOO fast so if i invest in one 512Gb i can easily use it for both OS and game installs (and have it encrypted like I do now, every SSD must use encryption and every HDD must use bitlocker)

 

[Viruzz]

The 5820K rig is my daily driver. I will not be changing it.

The 4790K rig is for reviews. I will be upgrading to Skylake as our review platform will be switching and selling the 4790K stuff.

I am not a good barometer to judge by 'what I own' as a lot of it was necessitated because of reviews and not wants or performance.

As far as performance goes in games, check out some reviews (Anandtech I believe does game comparisons). BUt people so far have not mislead you.. 5820K is Haswell. It will only benefit you when you use more than 8 threads (which not many games at all do). Regarding overclocking the 5820K, it, like the other haswells, should end up around 4.2-4.7Ghz depending on the silicon and your cooling solution.

Based on reviews Skylake is slower then Broadwell and Haswell in all video games in clock for clock benchmarks.
So thats what im scared of: Buying a new platform that will give me less performance then Haswell.
Skylake looks better in synthetic benchmarks and otehr tools like compression, encoding which i dont really use.
I browse the web with near 200 tabs in firefox 64bit, I play games, watch movies and sometimes bluray movies
Thats what my pc is used for

what do you think about Skylake game performance? its slower then haswell and CPU isn ot a GPU it cant be driver updated or new bios flashed, if its slower now its going to stay slower in future? no?

 

[GhostRyder]

Wasn't arguing with you before, I just thrown counter arguments for sake of discussion not to be rude or anything.

In reality I have no idea when USB 3.1 will be needed, the deal is that when I use external HDDs (And I use a lot for movie and anime collections) USB 3.0 is already faster then mechanical SATA6 drives.
And I dont see a need for external SSD ever and with current SSD's USB 3.0 is fast enough to not feel a difference.

But M.2 is useful, im eyeballing Samsung SM951 512GB (its near 400$), I usually use separate OS drive and separate game install drives, right now its samsung 840 evo 120Gb each.
But this one is SOO fast so if i invest in one 512Gb i can easily use it for both OS and game installs (and have it encrypted like I do now, every SSD must use encryption and every HDD must use bitlocker)

I didn't take it as rude and I hope I did not come off as rude as well

Well the M2 is already lightning fast so I would be curious if it would make a difference in this update more than anything. It would probably be down to how powerful (err fast) of an M2 drive you buy as some reach some extreme speeds. I chose to Raid 0 two Samsung 512gb Pro drives over buying an M2 mostly because of price for me.

I say your going to have to see if the upgraded specs really make it more appealing because as I see it currently the Skylake Processors are not much of an improvement other than motherboard features over the previous Haswell chips. I would say buying the 5820K to get more cores over the few updated features would be better in the long run but that is just my perspective on the matter and how I would choose. I can safely say I love my 5930k and plan on keeping it for probably the next 4+ years unless something drastically changes in the market.

 

[Viruzz]

I didn't take it as rude and I hope I did not come off as rude as well

Well the M2 is already lightning fast so I would be curious if it would make a difference in this update more than anything. It would probably be down to how powerful (err fast) of an M2 drive you buy as some reach some extreme speeds. I chose to Raid 0 two Samsung 512gb Pro drives over buying an M2 mostly because of price for me.

I say your going to have to see if the upgraded specs really make it more appealing because as I see it currently the Skylake Processors are not much of an improvement other than motherboard features over the previous Haswell chips. I would say buying the 5820K to get more cores over the few updated features would be better in the long run but that is just my perspective on the matter and how I would choose. I can safely say I love my 5930k and plan on keeping it for probably the next 4+ years unless something drastically changes in the market.

Excellent, one last question for you, would you say that 5820K is ONLY better for gaming over Skylake 6700K if Overclocked?
I mean is logical that if game has no 6 core support then the higher clock the better and currently it goes for all games out there.
So 5820K is faster in gaming if overclocked to 4.2Ghz aka match the quad core speed, then it has the benefit of same speed and 2 extra cores, without the overclock if kept on is default its going to loose to every top shelf quad core: Haswell, Broadwell and Skylake.


Hows your temps at 4.5Ghz? If im going X99 im leaning to get Asus with their Overclock socket (not a gimmick), im leaning for either Sabertooth, Asus X99-S or X99-A (depends on features, really need TPM header)
I read an article about DDR4 Haswell memory Scaling and basically DDR4 2666Mhz is all you need, anything higher doesn't get any benefit in games or sometimes its worse because of higher timing.
Any recommendations? Any real need for 32Gb right now? Or should I just get 16Gb and get another 16Gb when have the money or decide to "spoil" my PC with gifts...

P.S. About SSD RAID, can you use Hardware encryption? can you take a look in Samsung manager what sorts of encryption he offers you out of 3, if all 3 or just one or maybe none?

Any idea if I can use RAID1 (Its the backup one if im not mistaken right?) and use encryption?
It would be awesome to use my 840Evo as encrypted system drive and have automatic raid backup

 

[EarthDog]

Excellent, one last question for you, would you say that 5820K is ONLY better for gaming over Skylake 6700K if Overclocked?

Id say so in some titles yes. Simply because the 5820K comes in at 3.5Ghz and boosts single core to what, 3.9GHz? WHile the 6700K/4790K are 4Ghz boosting to 4.4GHz single thread.

16GB unless yoy know you can use more.

Other people's temps are not relevant.. WAY too many differences to apply it to your hyptothetical. Just know you want a beefy air cooler, or a 2x120mm AIO to put it in the 4.5GHz range (5820K).

 

[Viruzz]

Id say so in some titles yes. Simply because the 5820K comes in at 3.5Ghz and boosts single core to what, 3.9GHz? WHile the 6700K/4790K are 4Ghz boosting to 4.4GHz single thread.

16GB unless yoy know you can use more.

Other people's temps are not relevant.. WAY too many differences to apply it to your hyptothetical. Just know you want a beefy air cooler, or a 2x120mm AIO to put it in the 4.5GHz range (5820K).

Gong for Fractal Design Define R5 case and theirs dual radiator water cooling kit: Fractal Design Kelvin Series S24 it comes with 2 fans, if ill have enough space ill add 2 silent 1000 or 1500 RPM Noctua fans, if no space then replace original for Noctua 3000RPM PWM fans should give me some headroom and better cooling then original fans.

 

[GhostRyder]

Excellent, one last question for you, would you say that 5820K is ONLY better for gaming over Skylake 6700K if Overclocked?
I mean is logical that if game has no 6 core support then the higher clock the better and currently it goes for all games out there.
So 5820K is faster in gaming if overclocked to 4.2Ghz aka match the quad core speed, then it has the benefit of same speed and 2 extra cores, without the overclock if kept on is default its going to loose to every top shelf quad core: Haswell, Broadwell and Skylake.


Hows your temps at 4.5Ghz? If im going X99 im leaning to get Asus with their Overclock socket (not a gimmick), im leaning for either Sabertooth, Asus X99-S or X99-A (depends on features, really need TPM header)
I read an article about DDR4 Haswell memory Scaling and basically DDR4 2666Mhz is all you need, anything higher doesn't get any benefit in games or sometimes its worse because of higher timing.
Any recommendations? Any real need for 32Gb right now? Or should I just get 16Gb and get another 16Gb when have the money or decide to "spoil" my PC with gifts...

P.S. About SSD RAID, can you use Hardware encryption? can you take a look in Samsung manager what sorts of encryption he offers you out of 3, if all 3 or just one or maybe none?

Any idea if I can use RAID1 (Its the backup one if im not mistaken right?) and use encryption?
It would be awesome to use my 840Evo as encrypted system drive and have automatic raid backup

Purely on a clock to clock basis they are equals as the 5820K starts at lower clocks than the 6700K so if you compare them at stock the 5820K will lose unless something has very good threading which will benefit from having 6 actual cores.

My temps are 61 at the highest under extreme stress including GPU's (All in the same loop) but I have a custom loop with a 360 rad and a 140 rad. I would say go for on OC socket as well as they do help though I have had no trouble with my MSI board.

As for Memory, well I have 2666mhz but for the scaling I doubt there is much if any difference between the different speeds at least in gaming as memory speeds are not really a bottleneck. I would just get some good value memory with 16gb capacity, I never exceed 9gb of memory usage when gaming.

As for encryption I believe you can still use the hardware encryption. Ill take a look at the Samsung software when I get home.