GPU Choice for a Long Term Build (4-5 Years)

[The Von Matrices]

Isn't peak running Furmark which like IBT will stress a GPU (as opposed to CPU) like no game or real world application?

The point of mentioning Furmark was to dispute Fourstaff's assertion that the system could never reach even 750W power consumption even under maximum stress test, although my numbers suggest it would consume 750W in peak usage and even more in a stress test like Furmark. I agree that Furmark is not a reasonable test for sizing a power supply though.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

The point of mentioning Furmark was to dispute Fourstaff's assertion that the system could never reach 850W power consumption even under maximum stress test. I agree it's not a reasonable test for sizing a power supply though.

It never will unless you run a torture test like furmark, and regardless of whether you have an adequate PSU running said torture tests on the CPU and GPU is risky which is why I only test real-world long term stability with the likes of P95 or 3dMark/game benches. Torture testing is not the same as benching good sir!

 

[mastershake575]

AMD are the only ones offering high end cards at a decent price with a good amount of VRAM.

WTF ? The GTX 780 ACX edition is currently $495 not including $10 rebate (so basically $95 cheaper than the 290x) while offering slightly better performance out of the box (how in the hell is that not a decent price ?) im guessing your some sort of fanboy ?. Better performance for almost $100 cheaper while offering better temps isn't considered decent to you ?


Can't say im surprised by your quote. Your the same guy who whined that the 290x force the NVidia prices down (you whined that NVidia was screwing the consumer over based on the recent price drops) YET AMD did the same exact thing last generation (the 670/680 where faster than the 7950/7970 while being $50-75 cheaper so AMD was forced to dropped the prices of both by $100).

 

[The Von Matrices]

It never will unless you run a torture test like furmark, and regardless of whether you have an adequate PSU running said torture tests on the CPU and GPU is risky which is why I only test real-world long term stability with the likes of P95 or 3dMark/game benches. Torture testing is not the same as benching good sir!

Furmark or OCCT are not risky anymore with new components. Modern GPUs and CPUs throttle themselves and limit input current, so it's nearly impossible to kill components unless you disable the default power limits.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

Furmark or OCCT is not risky anymore with new components. Modern GPUs and CPUs throttle themselves and limit input current, so it's nearly impossible to kill components unless you disable the default power limits.

I enable most power saving features but disable those that over ride my OC, ie: reducing vcore and clocks dependant on temp, as whats the point of having a 4.8ghz OC when the chip is going to reduce it's own power consumption regardless of your preference?

ZOMG I have a 5ghz i7 proc!!!! well, no, you don't actually, you have a chip that does 4.5ghz easily and reduces vcore and temps from there on in that make you think you have a 5ghz chip in reality it's throttling.

 

[Fourstaff]

I disagree with your numbers, but only because he stated an intent to overclock his CPU. A R9 290X uses 282W peak in "Quiet" mode (note: this is peak in games, not Furmark) and an overclocked 4.7GHz 4770K system (everything but the GPU and case fans) consumes 171W peak. Together that's 732W. Add in about 20W for case fans and that's at your 750W number. Perform stress tests like Furmark and you'll get to that 850W pretty easily.

As I said, 850W is possible for the system but just barely. I would error on the side of a slightly larger capacity since he plans to keep the system for 5 years in order to deal with any sort of power supply aging. Yes, the aging effect would be minimal in a quality power supply, but if you're that close to capacity every watt counts. Plus, running your power supply close to capacity is less efficient than near the middle of its range and you also don't have to deal with a screaming loud PSU fan that would occur at 100% capacity.

He doesn't seem to be overclocking his GPU, so its fair to assume that stress testing his GPU will not be needed. Under normal loads you are only drawing about 500-600w depending on game in question, that is easily within peak efficiency of the PSU. The 850w figure you have is the worst case scenario, while easily achievable with stress tools, you will never see it in real life. Feel free to get a bigger PSU for peace of mind.

 

[TheGoat Eater]

I would definitely recommend the MSI GTX 780 Lightning in this situation, or if you want to save some cash the 780 Gaming. I would definitely choose them over EVGA in a second, plus the Twin Frozr coolers will keep it nice and cool. I would say you may want to see what the ti version has to offer first though.

 

[JThorpe]

I would definitely recommend the MSI GTX 780 Lightning in this situation, or if you want to save some cash the 780 Gaming. I would definitely choose them over EVGA in a second, plus the Twin Frozr coolers will keep it nice and cool. I would say you may want to see what the ti version has to offer first though.

Why not EVGA? The 780 SC got some great reviews, and you can buy an extended warranty

 

[JThorpe]

I disagree with your numbers, but only because he stated an intent to overclock his CPU. A R9 290X uses 282W peak in "Quiet" mode (note: this is peak in games, not Furmark) and an overclocked 4.7GHz 4770K system (everything but the GPU and case fans) consumes 171W peak. Together that's 732W. Add in about 20W for case fans and that's at your 750W number. Perform stress tests like Furmark and you'll get to that 850W pretty easily.

Would its make a big difference if I ran the 290X in "uber" mode a majority of the time?

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Whilst I somewhat agree with this statement, I also think that high end cards whilst more expensive obviously do have better longevity than mid range cards in multi GPU setups.

I'm not arguing against the purchase of high end cards, just paying an unnecessary and exorbitant premium for them.

WTF ? The GTX 780 ACX edition is currently $495 not including $10 rebate (so basically $95 cheaper than the 290x) while offering slightly better performance out of the box (how in the hell is that not a decent price ?) im guessing your some sort of fanboy ?. Better performance for almost $100 cheaper while offering better temps isn't considered decent to you ?

You keep harping that a 780 performs better than a 290x when the benches thus far have indicated just the opposite. In fact most benches have shown the 290x on par even with the Titan, for WAY less.

Can't say im surprised by your quote. Your the same guy who whined that the 290x force the NVidia prices down (you whined that NVidia was screwing the consumer over based on the recent price drops) YET AMD did the same exact thing last generation (the 670/680 where faster than the 7950/7970 while being $50-75 cheaper so AMD was forced to dropped the prices of both by $100).

Please quote this comment you're claiming I made, because I never in fact accuse Nvidia of dropping prices, just of setting them too high in the first place. Speaking of high, what have you been smokin?

If anyone sounds to be whining, it's you. I'm content with my 7970 OC that I paid only $330 for. It's still a great value. It's typically Nvidia customers that pay top dollar for their high end cards that whine after AMD forces a price drop with a better bang for buck card, and some do it passive aggressively rather than coming right out and admit it.

 

[The Von Matrices]

Why not EVGA? The 780 SC got some great reviews, and you can buy an extended warranty

It's really a personal preference. I personally don't buy EVGA because they tend to price their cards higher than others and I don't see value in the additional features. But the 5-year warranty might be a good purchase in your case.

Would its make a big difference if I ran the 290X in "uber" mode a majority of the time?

You would get 5-10% more performance at the cost of exceptionally more noise. There should be no difference in longevity of the card or the power consumption though.

 

[BarbaricSoul]

I think everyone in this thread is very optimistic thinking that custom R9 290X's will be available for a December purchase; they haven't even been announced yet.

late-November

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193358

 

[mastershake575]

You keep harping that a 780 performs better than a 290x when the benches thus far have indicated just the opposite. In fact most benches have shown the 290x on par even with the Titan, for WAY less.



Please quote this comment you're claiming I made, because I never in fact accuse Nvidia of dropping prices, just of setting them too high in the first place. Speaking of high, what have you been smokin?

Re-read my quote again. The ACX version of the 780 (the one I mentioned) is faster than the Titan and 290x out of the box and its currently $485 after rebate (I don't know what your point is ?).

In a thread a few days ago you complained that NVidia is greedy because they where basically forced to lower the 780 by $100 when in fact it was the exact opposite last generation (AMD had to lower the 7970/7950 by $100 yet you decide to call out NVidia only, the fact is both companies are in it for the money).

What do you mean what am I smoking ? You said AMD is the only company offering a good highend solution when the gtx 780 ACX is CHEAPER and FASTER (how can NVidia not have a good highend solution when the 780 is not only cheaper but faster ? that is my EXACT point).


If this is too hard for you to understand than this should sum things up

You: Nvidia is greedy with there pricing (in reaction to the $100 drop). Nvidia doesn't offer good value for the highend cards

Me: AMD did the same exact last generation (7970/7950 where just as overpriced as the 770/780). Almost every single edition of the 780 (FTW, Superclocked, Lighting, Matrix) are cheaper than the 290x and offer better performance out of the box for less money while being cooler

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Re-read my quote again. The ACX version of the 780 (the one I mentioned) is faster than the Titan and 290x out of the box and its currently $485 after rebate (I don't know what your point is ?).

In a thread a few days ago you complained that NVidia is greedy because they where basically forced to lower the 780 by $100 when in fact it was the exact opposite last generation (AMD had to lower the 7970/7950 by $100 yet you decide to call out NVidia only, the fact is both companies are in it for the money).

What do you mean what am I smoking ? You said AMD is the only company offering a good highend solution when the gtx 780 ACX is CHEAPER and FASTER (how can NVidia not have a good highend solution when the 780 is not only cheaper but faster ? that is my EXACT point).


If this is too hard for you to understand than this should sum things up

You: Nvidia is greedy with there pricing (in reaction to the $100 drop). Nvidia doesn't offer good value for the highend cards

Me: AMD did the same exact last generation (7970/7950 where just as overpriced as the 770/780). Almost every single edition of the 780 (FTW, Superclocked, Lighting, Matrix) are cheaper than the 290x and offer better performance out of the box for less money while being cooler

Where's your benches showing ANY 780 being consistently faster than a 290X?

And like I said, show an actual quote of mine with the comment I responded to included, or it can easily be misinterpreted. Lots of people take things out of context on forums, esp ones that don't quote properly or offer to show any real proof of their accusations.

If you don't believe me when I say it's not Nvidia's price drops but their initial high prices that are outlandish, you must be a dime a dozen troll that likes to stir the pot for the hell of it. Who in their right mind would complain about people lowering prices, doesn't even make sense. It's setting higher than necessary prices in the first place that's appalling, and that's likely what you took out of context.

You're sounding pretty nutty using what you copied and pasted above as so called proof that I complained about their price drops. Saying that Nvidia is greedy with their pricing and doesn't offer good value for high end cards is not the same as saying they never drop prices. It's saying they are the ones that tend to charge more for their product in general. Anyone that reads benches regularly knows they have less performance per dollar on average.

It's funny because most Nvidia fanboys just admit it and say something to the effect of you get what you pay for, even though lately the drivers and even Crossfire performance is not a tradeoff like it used to be. You on the other hand just live in denial while spewing out of context smack regarding the responses you get.

 

[Fourstaff]

Perhaps we should stop arguing, AMD and Nvidia both release crazy expensive cards (7970 when it came out, TITAN now), and both of them release good value for money cards (660Ti in UK, 7970Ghz now worldwide). Its unfortunate that Nvidia is the one being undercutted now, whereas previously AMD was the one getting undercutted.

 

[mastershake575]

Where's your benches showing ANY 780 being consistently faster than a 290X?

And like I said, show an actual quote of mine with the comment I responded to included, or it can easily be misinterpreted. Lots of people take things out of context on forums, esp ones that don't quote properly or offer to show any real proof of their accusations.

. You on the other hand just live in denial while spewing out of context smack regarding the responses you get.

All of the 780's I listed (lighting, matrix, ACX SC, FTW) are at least 7-10% faster than a stock 780 right out of the box. At the absolute very best you could argue that its equal to a 290x (uber mode) for a cheaper price while being cooler (thus how in the hell is it NOT a decent value ?). That's my point (being equal or slightly faster out of the box for a cheaper price is a good thing).

How am I nutty ? You complained about NVidia dropping prices when AMD did the same thing last gen (both companies overprice there product if there's no competition in that bracket).

You claiming that NVidia typically overpriced there products more than AMD as a whole is absurd (and this is coming from an AMD card owner). If anything they trade off a lot of times (for example: 670 took the 7950 crown, AMD lowered the prices and released the 7950 boost edition for much cheaper, NVidia then released the gtx 760 SC which gave stock 7970 performance for $40 cheaper than the 7950. AMD then lowered the 7950 boost price to $200-220 which made it once again a better value......ect).

Nvidia literally trades blows in terms of value (over the last 2-3 years) on every single product in the $150-400 range (look at my example and it literally applies to every card in that bracket). The $400+ bracket has been high ONLY because AMD hasn't had a single GPU card for over $400 in the last 1.5 years (Spring of 2012 is when the 7970 dropped to $375-400). Hell even the 650ti boost was considered the best performance for buck for a long time

Nvidia has good highend products and a lot of times both companies trade blows for the better value for your cash bracket (and this is coming from a 7870XT owner). That is my point (you have some sort of vendetta for Nvidia which is a joke, claiming they have no good highend products, claiming there greedy, and claiming that AMD easily beats it in the value bracket which isn't true since both companies trade off)

 

[Unhooked]

2 aftermarket R9 290s should do the trick.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Try to look for a used 780, I know there are some people who sidegraded to 290x.

Idiots. But yeah look for a used 780. I agree with that part.

 

[erocker]

For 4-5 years down the road, you want the most powerful GPU you can get. 780ti is just around the corner.

 

[Unhooked]

I bought one of my 780s for $415 and the other without the Heatsink for $460, this was before the price drop.

So with the price drop used GTX 780s should be attainable for $400 or so.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

All of the 780's I listed (lighting, matrix, ACX SC, FTW) are at least 7-10% faster than a stock 780 right out of the box. At the absolute very best you could argue that its equal to a 290x (uber mode) for a cheaper price while being cooler (thus how in the hell is it NOT a decent value ?). That's my point (being equal or slightly faster out of the box for a cheaper price is a good thing).

How am I nutty ? You complained about NVidia dropping prices when AMD did the same thing last gen (both companies overprice there product if there's no competition in that bracket).

You claiming that NVidia typically overpriced there products more than AMD as a whole is absurd (and this is coming from an AMD card owner). If anything they trade off a lot of times (for example: 670 took the 7950 crown, AMD lowered the prices and released the 7950 boost edition for much cheaper, NVidia then released the gtx 760 SC which gave stock 7970 performance for $40 cheaper than the 7950. AMD then lowered the 7950 boost price to $200-220 which made it once again a better value......ect).

Nvidia literally trades blows in terms of value (over the last 2-3 years) on every single product in the $150-400 range (look at my example and it literally applies to every card in that bracket). The $400+ bracket has been high ONLY because AMD hasn't had a single GPU card for over $400 in the last 1.5 years (Spring of 2012 is when the 7970 dropped to $375-400). Hell even the 650ti boost was considered the best performance for buck for a long time

Nvidia has good highend products and a lot of times both companies trade blows for the better value for your cash bracket (and this is coming from a 7870XT owner). That is my point (you have some sort of vendetta for Nvidia which is a joke, claiming they have no good highend products, claiming there greedy, and claiming that AMD easily beats it in the value bracket which isn't true since both companies trade off)

Still waiting for those benches where you claim the 780 beats the 290x.

And again, YOU were the one that ASSumed I complained about Nvidia dropping prices. That's where they in fact get a reality check. It's their initial high prices on most of their product at launch that is what I have a problem with.

And sorry guys, but this has been going on since AMD bought ATI, so to say AMD uses the same practices is not true. It's only been the odd very high end card here and there that AMD has put high prices on. For the most part their mantra is bang for buck value cards, and it shows in their dominate number of units sold compared to Nvidia.

All you need do is look at the charts of units sold for AMD and Nvidia, and then the corporate profits, it's very telling. AMD has more units sold, yet Nvidia has way more profits. It doesn't take agenius to see that it means Nvidia works off a MUCH higher profit margin.

Another thing you need to know is my last card WAS an Nvidia GTS 250, and I got almost 3 years of use out of it. I got it for only $70 at Fry's. That was when the 200 series was nearing it's end though. I don't go by late model cycle prices because everybody drops prices and there are many reasons they do. I also bought and tried an MSI 660 Ti PE OC before even getting my 7970. It didn't work out because it had some strange incompat issues that resulted in black screen when switching TV inputs, which my 250 and 7970 do not. It was $310 vs $330 for my 7970 OC which is easily a better card, but I don't count that as a fair comparison because obviously one was new on the market and the other out for some time.

So please, stop this BS about me complaining about price drops because I know and have experienced how good a deal you can get from EITHER chip vendor late in their model cycles after prices drop. Prices dropping never really had anything to do with this argument. You just assumed because of what I said AFTER you mentioned price drops that it was why I was saying Nvidia have poor value, and it wasn't, and I've told you that numerous times, and here you still are trying to put words in my mouth. So yeah, of COURSE I'm going to call you nutty.

 

[mastershake575]

Still waiting for those benches where you claim the 780 beats the 290x.


You just assumed because of what I said AFTER you mentioned price drops that it was why I was saying Nvidia have poor value, and it wasn't, and I've told you that numerous times, and here you still are trying to put words in my mouth. So yeah, of COURSE I'm going to call you nutty.

I already told you, techpowerups review of the 780 lighting, FTW, SC, matrix....ect all had the models 8-10% faster than stock 780 (thus at the absolute best you could argue that the 290x in uber mode matches those models).

I'm really confused as to why you keep asking for these benchmarks when 1. Of course these cards where reviewed BEFORE the 290x came out thus no head to head and 2. A gtx 780 with a 8-10% overclock is of course going to be higher on the chart than a stock 780 (look at the 290x review and add 7-10% depending on which model).

Thus I don't understand "NVidia doesn't have a good highend value" which you have yet to prove wrong (a 780 FTW, SC, Lighting, matrix...ect offer at the very worse equal performance out of the box for a cheaper price while being cooler).

I still don't understand what your coming from. You called NVidia greedy, said they don't have a good highend solution, and said that AMD usually offers better value across the board (these things aren't 100% true). You could maybe argue me misreading your first statement but it doesn't mean the other two are right (780 is a great highend solution and NVidia has traded blows the last 3 years on both the sub 200 range cards and the 200-400 cards. 400+ was traded up until the 7970 price cut of $375-400).

 

[newconroer]

Hello All,

I am trying to decide on a GPU for my long term build. I have asked this question before when I narrowed my choice to the GTX 780 (and I thank everyone who helped me the first time), but now with the 290X, the 780 price drop, and the rumored 780 Rev 2 chip (GHz), I am now back to square one.

Here is the background: I only build a new computer every 4-5 years (due to funding reasons and need). My current GPU is two AMD Radeon 4890’s in crossfire. I will be building a complete new build, and my choice is a 4770K for the CPU, and the Asus Maximus Hero for the MB.

I will want to get two GPU’s in Crossfire/SLI, more for the longevity aspect. I felt that with my current build I was able to play the newer games this year with higher settings because I had the crossfire set up, and I want to continue with that. My current monitor is a 1980x1080, and if I did upgrade my monitor, I would either go 2560x1440 or 120Hz monitor (no 3D), both at 27in. I know that GPU’s that I am looking at are overkill (really overkill) for the resolution I am at (or will be). Based on my experience, they would be overkill now, but as time goes on, and games get more intensive I would be covered the best I can. I know I cannot “future proof” my build, but I can at least mitigate the future requirements.

Here is my choices (SLI/Crossfire):
1) R9 290X non-reference (Asus Direct CU II most likely)
2) EVGA GTX 780 SC
3) GTX 780 (GHz), EVGA SC if it is available (if it is just a rumor, then not an option).

One of the questions that I have for the 290X vs. the GTX 780 is the vram. Does 4Gb make a huge difference vs. 3Gb? I know that games like Battlefield 3 state that the minimum requirements are 3Gb, and also games like Skyrim (which I play), can use a lot of vram if you utilize a lot of Mods (which I do), and I will most likely play any future Skyrim games as well. I also play games like BioShock, Fallout (with Mods), and different MMO’s (not WoW).

In regards to the Power Supply, would a 1000w SeaSonic Platinum be enough?

I am planning to start my build in late December (Christmas).

Also, the GTX 780Ti, would not be an option due to the price. I am looking at a price of $550-$600 per GPU max, and $600 is a little high for me.

I apologize for the length of the post, but I want to make sure I present all of the information.

Thank you all in advance!!

Get two GTX 680s used, and spend the rest on a nice 30" monitor.
In just under two years, replace them.

As for waiting four to five years, possibly on the CPU/Motherboard, but GPUs? Even a set of 290x wouldn't go that long if you were playing up to date games.

 

[Steevo]

I disagree with your numbers, but only because he stated an intent to overclock his CPU. A R9 290X uses 282W peak in "Quiet" mode (note: this is peak in games, not Furmark) and an overclocked 4.7GHz 4770K system (everything but the GPU and case fans) consumes 171W peak. Together that's 732W. Add in about 20W for case fans and that's at your 750W number. Perform stress tests like Furmark and you'll get to that 850W pretty easily.

As I said, 850W is possible for the system but just barely. I would error on the side of a slightly larger capacity since he plans to keep the system for 5 years in order to deal with any sort of power supply aging. Yes, the aging effect would be minimal in a quality power supply, but if you're that close to capacity every watt counts. Plus, running your power supply close to capacity is less efficient than near the middle of its range and you also don't have to deal with a screaming loud PSU fan that would occur at 100% capacity.

171 + 282 = 732?
Most power supplies are most efficient at 80% load, I just bought a 950 PC Power and Cooling for $120 on the egg, It will do every bit of 950 and closer to 1Kw easily.

Wait till Black Friday and get what you can, then start watching sales for the rest.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I already told you, techpowerups review of the 780 lighting, FTW, SC, matrix....ect all had the models 8-10% faster than stock 780 (thus at the absolute best you could argue that the 290x in uber mode matches those models).

I'm really confused as to why you keep asking for these benchmarks when 1. Of course these cards where reviewed BEFORE the 290x came out thus no head to head and 2. A gtx 780 with a 8-10% overclock is of course going to be higher on the chart than a stock 780 (look at the 290x review and add 7-10% depending on which model).

Thus I don't understand "NVidia doesn't have a good highend value" which you have yet to prove wrong (a 780 FTW, SC, Lighting, matrix...ect offer at the very worse equal performance out of the box for a cheaper price while being cooler).

I still don't understand what your coming from. You called NVidia greedy, said they don't have a good highend solution, and said that AMD usually offers better value across the board (these things aren't 100% true). You could maybe argue me misreading your first statement but it doesn't mean the other two are right (780 is a great highend solution and NVidia has traded blows the last 3 years on both the sub 200 range cards and the 200-400 cards. 400+ was traded up until the 7970 price cut of $375-400).

Alright, I'll make it simple for you since you don't seem to get it. You talk in terms of TPU reviews, so I'll use what's been posted right here on TPU as an example. Recently there were several games benched on the 290X posted here and it hung pretty well even with the Titan. So by extension that would mean you're now claiming that the 780 can beat a Titan, which doesn't make sense regardless what version of 780.

That kinda sums up the points of who's card is better AND the value argument in one fell swoop. If you still don't get it, I think you need Adderall or something.