GTX560 a steal?

[MoonPig]

Iam the only one disappointed by the GTX560?

It's worse than the 5870:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti/images/perfrel_1920.gif

It consumes more power on load than the 5870:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti/images/power_peak.gif

And the 5870 can be had for £160 2nd hand and the GTX560 is £200 new...

 

[joeyck]

This is my game of choice, and I game at 1366x768 (close to that resolution) and it shows the 560 spanking the 6950 and 6970... so no matter what my move will be it will be an upgrade from the 6870...

also i wouldnt get a 5870 because my last 6870 (at 1000/1250 stock volts) raped my friends 5870 @ lower Resolution on COD4 and BC2 (only games i love and play) so it would be a down grade to be honest with ya

 

[MoonPig]

I was more showing that at an average res, the GTX560 isn't great...

Also, you REALLY don't need to upgrade a GPU. Wanna buy something? Get a monitor.

Your getting over 80FPS now... thats more than enough.

 

[joeyck]

lol, that graph doesnt relate to me i get on average of 96fps, OC'd 6870 with stock 940... i do want a rape card that will hold me down for atleast 2 or so years... i dont want to upgrade any more, and so far my cheapest and best bet would be the 6950 only 5$ difference after MIR... lol

also i wouldnt be buying anything, i would just RMA it then get the refund and buy something else ^_^

 

[MoonPig]

2 years?

So, 2 years ago the 4870x2 came out, it cost a crap load back then and still pulls it's weight now.

If you want a card that'll last you 2 years, you need to get the best out. GTX580 or HD6990 (out in abit)

Your 6870 will last you along time if you gradually reduce the quality every few months

 

[joeyck]

well i dont play none of the extremely l33t uber games like crysis -_-

i am awaiting Battle field 3, idk what ima do... if anything if price is right ill swap it out for a 6950... but i was happy with my last 6870 so idk,,,

 

[GSquadron]

2 years?

So, 2 years ago the 4870x2 came out, it cost a crap load back then and still pulls it's weight now.

If you want a card that'll last you 2 years, you need to get the best out. GTX580 or HD6990 (out in abit)

Your 6870 will last you along time if you gradually reduce the quality every few months

You mean GTX595 and HD6990

 

[newtekie1]

Good advice, but since he's on a 6870 I would just not spend the money at all.

Didn't see the HD6870, you're right as usually, don't waste the money.

GTX 560 has an additional shader cluster so just overclocking a 460 won't get you anywhere near the performance of a 560. The fastest factory overclocked 460's can trade blows with a 6870 in some tests. The GTX 560 is supposed to operate in between the 6870 and a 6950. If you were to use water cooling you could probably get a 460 up to that range, but would it really be worth the expense and the time to assemble it when you could just buy a new card that does those speeds on air?

I think you are drastically over-estimating how much the extra shader cluster is helping. Most of the GTX560's improvement is from the 150MHz clock speed increase, not the extra shaders. Even if you assume that performance scales linearly with the number of shaders, it is only a 15% increase in shaders, which it doesn't or the GTX465 wouldn't perform the same as the GTX460, so a ~25% performance increase obviously isn't just from the shaders. As I said in the GTX560 review, I beat if the GTX560 was downclocked to match GTX460 speeds we'd see very similar performance, I'm guessing maybe 10% difference at most.

In fact, when W1z reviewed the iGame GTX460 clocked at 820/1000, it was right at 5% better than the HD5850, which is 10% worse than the GTX560, so you do the math.

 

[joeyck]

so ur saying a 560 wouldnt be much of anything to upgrade from a 6870? correct?

what bout 6870 - - - -> 560?

 

[kurosagi01]

There is no point in upgrading if your getting good performance from your 6870,is the extra 20fps worth the extra $20?? How about get new monitor 1st before upgrading to a gpu,that way you can actually enjoy games at higher details on bigger resolution.

I have to say the 560 perf does look great but i am in no hurry to upgrade from my 460,i need upgrade my psu still.

 

[joeyck]

yea... ima just stick with this bad boy and in the future will upgrade mobo, CPU and PSU and go crossfire

 

[sliderider]

I think you are drastically over-estimating how much the extra shader cluster is helping. Most of the GTX560's improvement is from the 150MHz clock speed increase, not the extra shaders. Even if you assume that performance scales linearly with the number of shaders, it is only a 15% increase in shaders, which it doesn't or the GTX465 wouldn't perform the same as the GTX460, so a ~25% performance increase obviously isn't just from the shaders. As I said in the GTX560 review, I beat if the GTX560 was downclocked to match GTX460 speeds we'd see very similar performance, I'm guessing maybe 10% difference at most.

In fact, when W1z reviewed the iGame GTX460 clocked at 820/1000, it was right at 5% better than the HD5850, which is 10% worse than the GTX560, so you do the math.

I'm going by tests I have seen regarding the MSI Talon Attack and EVGA FTW editions of the GTX 460 and they perform at or slightly below a 6870 while the GTX560 is supposed to perform at or slightly below a 6950. That's a pretty big difference no matter how you look at it and it would be almost impossible to get a 460 to that level without exotic cooling, if it could be done at all. I've only ever heard of a handful of people getting any brand of GTX460 stable at 900mhz and it is nowhere near as fast as a 6950 even at that speed.

So if the Talon Attack and FTW cards are clocked at 855mhz and 850mhz and can barely keep up with a 6870, then a GTX560 at 750mhz nearly keeping up with a 6950 is relying on the extra shaders more than you think it is, and that doesn't even take overclocking into consideration. How can they run at the same speed at the same clock if the the GTX keeps up with a 6950 at 100mhz less than a Talon Attck or FTW and those cards can barely keep with a 6870? Shouldn't they be faster than a 6950? Bump the GTX560 to 850mhz and you'll be treading the area in between an HD6950 and 6970 which is a place no 460 will ever go.

 

[joeyck]

well i am not going to bash a nvidia as i had many of them before, but the gtx460 (1gig) does not keep up with the 6870... my clan member and i have identical systems even down to the powersupply his 460 is usually 10 - 15 fps behind mine in average fps (in max i still get more) both over clocked (me 1000/1250) (him around 940 core and idk the rest)

 

[newtekie1]

I'm going by tests I have seen regarding the MSI Talon Attack and EVGA FTW editions of the GTX 460 and they perform at or slightly below a 6870 while the GTX560 is supposed to perform at or slightly below a 6950. That's a pretty big difference no matter how you look at it and it would be almost impossible to get a 460 to that level without exotic cooling, if it could be done at all. I've only ever heard of a handful of people getting any brand of GTX460 stable at 900mhz and it is nowhere near as fast as a 6950 even at that speed.

So if the Talon Attack and FTW cards are clocked at 855mhz and 850mhz and can barely keep up with a 6870, then a GTX560 at 750mhz nearly keeping up with a 6950 is relying on the extra shaders more than you think it is.

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Colorful/iGame_GTX_460_1_GB/images/perfrel.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti/images/perfrel.gif

When the GTX460 is clocked at the same clocks, almost, as the GTX560 the two are extremely close. The GTX460 is 6% better than the HD5850, the GTX560 is 10%, difference between GTX460 and GTX560=4%. The GTX460 is 6% worse than the GTX470, the GTX560 is 4% better, difference=10%. The GTX460 is 9% worse than the HD5870, the GTX560 is 3% worse, difference=6%.

It doesn't take a genius to tell that the extra shaders aren't really helping nearly as much as the extra clock speed is. The way I see it, you are looking at 10% at best due to the extra shaders.

And you are wrong, the GTX560 isn't performing at or slightly below a HD6950, it is performing right smack dab in the middle of the HD6870 and HD6950. It is 6% better than the HD6870 and 5% worse than the HD6950. As and I mentioned, the GTX460 at the same clocks is 6% better tan the HD5850, which is 4% worse than the HD6870, so the GTX460 if overclocked to match GTX560 clock speeds would be 2% better than the HD6870. That leave 4% between them. That is certainly not a big difference no matter how you look at it.

And considering both of my bone stock vanilla GTX460s do 875MHz, you certainly wouldn't need excotic cooling to match GTX560 performance.

well i am not going to bash a nvidia as i had many of them before, but the gtx460 (1gig) does not keep up with the 6870... my clan member and i have identical systems even down to the powersupply his 460 is usually 10 - 15 fps behind mine in average fps (in max i still get more) both over clocked (me 1000/1250) (him around 940 core and idk the rest)

Yes, because the GTX460 has a terrible default clock speed. But my point is when the GTX460 is overclocked to match the GTX560 clocks, it is slightly better than a stock HD6870. Yes, I know the HD6870 can be overclocked, mind you I'm not trying to say buy the GTX460 over the HD6870, I'm merely using the HD6870 at stock settings as a base comparision point between the GTX560 and GTX460, since there really isn't a comparision between the two at the same clock speeds right now.

 

[sliderider]

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Colorful/iGame_GTX_460_1_GB/images/perfrel.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti/images/perfrel.gif

When the GTX460 is clocked at the same clocks, almost, as the GTX560 the two are extremely close. The GTX460 is 6% better than the HD5850, the GTX560 is 10%, difference between GTX460 and GTX560=4%. The GTX460 is 6% worse than the GTX470, the GTX560 is 4% better, difference=10%. The GTX460 is 9% worse than the HD5870, the GTX560 is 3% worse, difference=6%.

It doesn't take a genius to tell that the extra shaders aren't really helping nearly as much as the extra clock speed is. The way I see it, you are looking at 10% at best due to the extra shaders.

And you are wrong, the GTX560 isn't performing at or slightly below a HD6950, it is performing right smack dab in the middle of the HD6870 and HD6950. It is 6% better than the HD6870 and 5% worse than the HD6950. As and I mentioned, the GTX460 at the same clocks is 6% better tan the HD5850, which is 4% worse than the HD6870, so the GTX460 if overclocked to match GTX560 clock speeds would be 2% better than the HD6870. That leave 4% between them. That is certainly not a big difference no matter how you look at it.

And considering both of my bone stock vanilla GTX460s do 875MHz, you certainly wouldn't need excotic cooling to match GTX560 performance.

Again, look at the EVGA FTW and MSI Talon attack. They are already clocked at 850 and 855 mhz and DO NOT beat a 6870 and those cards are already clocked higher than a GTX560.

 

[newtekie1]

Again, look at the EVGA FTW and MSI Talon attack. They are already clocked at 850 and 855 mhz and DO NOT beat a 6870 and those cards are already clocked higher than a GTX560.

Then show me the reviews. Because everything I've seen has the iGame@820MHz beating the HD6870.

Because I can't even find a good review of the Talon Attack, the only review I see has it against HD5770s in Crossfire, and nothing else. I don't really see any good reviews of the FTW either, there is one on Fudzilla, but it doesn't have a HD6870 in it, only HD5850 and HD5870, and the FTW beats the HD5850 in pretty much every test and even manages to beat the HD5870 in a few. So where are you seeing these cards not beating an HD6870, I'm curious.

 

[joeyck]

woah guys calm it down? lol

my friend has his 460 clocked to the limit where he gets artifacts if its any higher, i have mine to the limit of what MSI lets me go to (afterburner) yes we no the OC 460 beats a 6870, and yes 460 heavily over clocked (voltage tweaks as well) have beaten my stock 6870

This is the tests we ran :

Stock 460 vs Stock 6870 i win
OC'd 460 vs stock 6870 i lose by a little bit (we only tested BC2 with HBAO)
OC'd 460 vs 1000/1250 6870 i won by 10 fps usually on average FPS (using fraps) we did this final test about 6 times if i remember and all the times my average fps beats him in the range of 10 - 15 fps for those trials...

without HBAO i was over 18 fps on him (we only tested once) mind you this is on 1366x768 BC2 with HBAO and the last test without HBAO

also our 940 Black editions were clocked to 3.0 (stock) for these runs as well

 

[newtekie1]

woah guys calm it down? lol

my friend has his 460 clocked to the limit where he gets artifacts if its any higher, i have mine to the limit of what MSI lets me go to (afterburner) yes we no the OC 460 beats a 6870, and yes 460 heavily over clocked (voltage tweaks as well) have beaten my stock 6870

This is the tests we ran :

Stock 460 vs Stock 6870 i win
OC'd 460 vs stock 6870 i lose by a little bit (we only tested BC2 with HBAO)
OC'd 460 vs 1000/1250 6870 i won by 10 fps usually on average FPS (using fraps) we did this final test about 6 times if i remember and all the times my average fps beats him in the range of 10 - 15 fps for those trials...

without HBAO i was over 18 fps on him (we only tested once) mind you this is on 1366x768 BC2 with HBAO and the last test without HBAO

also our 940 Black editions were clocked to 3.0 (stock) for these runs as well

Correct, no one is saying to get the GTX460 over your HD6870, erocker pointed that out in the beginning and I confirmed that a while ago.

My point was that if you are looking at a GTX560, then I'd just go with a GTX460 and overclock it to match the GTX560(or pretty damn close). But, yeah, if you already have a HD6870 there is no point in getting either because the HD6870 whoops them both overclocked.

 

[joeyck]

oohh im sorry my stupidity on ur post that addressed me my bad, and yea i decided im going to save up for bulldozer AM3+ 6870 and bttr PSU, for now just OC my current Asus Direct CU (which i get in 1 hr!!!) and probably push my 940 to 3.4 and let it rock usually see a good 100ish with overclocked 940... idk i might buy my 212+ soon and really oc this cpu

 

[newtekie1]

oohh im sorry my stupidity on ur post that addressed me my bad, and yea i decided im going to save up for bulldozer AM3+ 6870 and bttr PSU, for now just OC my current Asus Direct CU (which i get in 1 hr!!!) and probably push my 940 to 3.4 and let it rock usually see a good 100ish with overclocked 940... idk i might buy my 212+ soon and really oc this cpu

Oh, no sorry needed. It was my fault, I didn't realize you had an HD6870 already, so my initial post lead to the confusion.

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

Stick to your 6870. Would just be a sidegrade if you switch to a 560. Those 560s are overpriced for its performance imo