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hd 4850 problem

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by ste2425, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. ste2425

    ste2425

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    I recently bought a second HD 4850 for my rig. A small side upgrade to keep me entertained for a while, it was used of the bay and i think it was one of the earlier models as its quite longer then my other one with the red single slot cooler.

    The seller assured me that it works fine and doesn't artifact etc. However when i fitted it today to test i got dots on the motherboards bios boot screen, where it displays the motherboards logo, these dots continue if i enter the bios. Then Three or four thick verticle blue lines. These are opaque and the things underneath can be seen with a blue tint. After about 10-15 min the whole screen becomes pixelated with different shades of blue squares, the mouse however still displays as normal. When the computer does function before this i tried to open ccc and it said something to the effect that there is no device installed. Opened Gpu-z and all its fields were empty on all pages.

    Im fairly confident that the card is nakard but before i contact the seller saying what the hell i want to be sure it isn't an issue on my part. I know my rig can handle the card as i already have one installed but i just swapped it over. As its the same card drivers shouldn't be an issue right? Also i did intend to run this as crossfire, im assuming this is no longer possible as it isn't actually being detected by ccc? I poped my old card in a boom back to normal.

    Thanks all, im extremely un happy... was looking forward to this allot :(
  2. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    if you are getting corruption on the bios screen then the card is junk
    and the seller lied he probably thought he could get away with selling a fried card
  3. ste2425

    ste2425

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    not on my watch, glad i asked through ebay messaging as i have proof that he lied, Thanks
  4. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    there is like a 0000.002% proablity that it might be system related but the fact that it gets worse over time pretty much seals the fact that its a junk card
  5. Widjaja

    Widjaja

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    It if artifacts after trying ti out as a single card with a clean install of the same driver, then it is the card.
  6. ste2425

    ste2425

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    that's the thing i didn't clean install the driver just swapped the card, i struggle to see how swapping could cause driver issues, there the same card?

    Either way if it artifacts at bios thats before anything happens with windows or any drivers right? i know im kind of proving my own points but want to be sure before i write a message with a few choice words to the seller
    OneMoar says thanks.
  7. Widjaja

    Widjaja

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    Technically not the same card due to revision.
    Either way, it appears that since you have used the card in the same slot as the old one without crossfire and you are getting image corruption then it will be the card.
  8. ste2425

    ste2425

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    Well thanks guys i took my case up with the seller and his first reply was apologizing about it and that he would like a few pictures (understandable) and that he'l refund me. I got the refund before i even had chance to send some pictures so im happy. Now i have a graphics card that's as much use as a chocolate fire guard....

    What is it that breaks to cause this? i inspected it closely and carnt see any signs of components that have burnt out etc. Is it repairable at all? without specialist equipment that is.
  9. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    you can try this guide here
    http://www.overclock.net/t/623774/guide-total-noobs-guide-to-baking-a-gpu unlike the photo make sure the core is facing UP
    but odds are that either the core its self is damaged internally or the memory chips are bad
  10. Hayder_Master

    Hayder_Master

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    it's ram hardware damaged as i think , EPIC fail
  11. ste2425

    ste2425

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    It worked :) I really really really really did not expect it to but thought what the hell I got a refund so what's to loose :) now I just need to clad it with as many fans as I can fit to hopefully stop it getting to hot and happening again. I know it won't be a permanent solution but any running time is free running time so thanks all
  12. Hellraiser1981 New Member

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    ok so the baking trick worked. If the card really did work when the seller shipped it, then one of the solder balls cracked during [United Parcel Smashers] shipping. This is not a permanent fix. You need to use no-clean flux (like kester 951) and do a proper reflow. You need bottom preheat and top side hot air. Your fix will probably last a month.
    The guide you followed fails to mention bake-out procedures. Most GPUs, CPU,s RAM chips, etc... are JEDEC level 4 for moisture resistance. That means after 72 hours after manufacturing, a 24 hour bake-out at 105C (or so, recommends 125C, but slightly over H2O boiling point is fine ) is required to remove the moisture from the silicon and organic substrate. Failure to follow bake-out procedures can (and usually will) result in "popcorning" the gpu or ram. Just throwing that out there for anyone planning a reflow (very important).
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
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  13. ste2425

    ste2425

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    If it last a month or a week I'm not bothered. However long I get is free time. Ill be able to see if crossfire is worth it. Be able to test. As long as I look after it, don't slam it about causing hard vibrations and don't let the temperatures get A: too hot and B: vary too much causing contractions etc why wouldn't it last longer?
  14. Hellraiser1981 New Member

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    What you did was reflow the gpu. Flux is needed for the solder to make a good bond at reflow temperatures.
    Flux removes oxidation and impurities from the solder joint (there's probably a thousand under that chip) and allows it to bond well with itself and the pads on the board and the lands of the BGA.
    You have to remember that the components will cycle thermally during normal use (GPU idle at desktop=cool, Playing 3D Game = Hot); Fiberglass(the board) Copper Tracings, Solder, etc... All have different thermal expansion/contraction coefficients, so through normal use, the solder balls will flex and crack again. That's why it is important to use flux to get the maximum strength out of every single solder ball. The proper way to permanently fix the problem is to use leaded solder and reball the GPU. SnPb solder has a higher maleability than lead-free solder. (It will stretch/contract more without breaking) I really hate ROHS.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
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  15. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    I had this happen on a GeForce 7900 GT. I was getting random colored spots across the display in post and into Windows. Come to find out the DRAM was failing. It honestly sounds like it was on its way out.
  16. Xenturion

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    Oh, good ol' 4850s. Definitely solid cards. My brother ran 2 in crossfire for a long time. They worked great, but the ones he had were single-slot cards with coolers that were woefully inadequate. They'd sit at 85C under load with an intake 120mm directly on them. Before I bought them for my brother, they spent a year or so in a CM Cosmos, so they weren't being strangled there, either. Eventually, the top card developed artifacts, namely green dots. I flipped the cards around, using the other card to display, which was a nice solution. If you haven't tried crossfire, do it, using your good card to display. The non-displaying card will run cooler, too.
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  17. Hellraiser1981 New Member

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    If you want a long term fix, Put some kester 951 under the gpu and do the oven trick again. You need a thermometer with a k-type thermocouple tho.... $5 off ebay. Use kapton tape for the probe on IHS and hit a target of 230C for 60-90 seconds. Do not use RMA flux or solder paste, Use a no clean flux for this procedure.
  18. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    its time for a major upgrade- time for a 7870 XT
  19. Hellraiser1981 New Member

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    Agree.... Time to get a 2nd job to support your hardware :laugh:
  20. ste2425

    ste2425

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    For the price of a 7870 XT that a quick eBay search threw up i could have the car chipped for that sort of money, and a full tank of petrol, as well as a bottle of Auto Glym supper ressin polish, along with new buffer pads, not forgetting Tyre shine and then lastly an air freshener. I know which i would prefer. :roll:

    Better make that a third, my current second job supports the car.

    But with the talk of doing a more professional re flow i think i may give it a go ive been reading through many guides since rebuild my computer and whilst it looks a bit difficult it certainly doesn't look impossible and if i do a good job and it gives me say 12 month (that reasonable? ) itl be worth the effort.

    That is the plan my friend :) My original card is a palit with a dual slot cooler, the smaller PCB design and its been an amazingly capable card, shire horse of a card. Of cause its slacking now and would cry for mercy at any higher resolutions.
  21. Hellraiser1981 New Member

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    Yes, about a year of reliable service. Reflow isn't hard, you just have to plan a good profile. You WILL need a thermometer to do it right, I would recommend a toaster oven at 212F or 100C @ 24hrs for the bake-out, followed by a griddle at 150C for bottom side preheat, and a modified heat gun with temp control (not just low/high) for the actual reflow. Flux is Essential!!! for good reflow. The oven would work on a low budget tho... Monitor the temps!! I cannot stress that enough, BGA's are rated for 260C [peak} soldering temperature per JEDEC specifications, exceed that you make junk....
    You should not have reflowed your card without a 24hr bakeout; you got lucky; but hey it works!! Good job.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
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  22. ste2425

    ste2425

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    That is the part that will cause a bit of a headache i have no idea where im going to get access to one from, nor do i know if there expensive, just to purchase for this task, nor for that matter even if there large appliances.

    What do you mean by griddle, and how long would you recommend that for?

    Don't worry i will be bookmarking this page and referencing it when i do perform the re flow and will have the thermometer and flux that has been recommended.

    So far.... i intend to remove it now that i know it functions and refit my old card till i can perform the re flow, ebayed that flux and its very cheap £3.00 give or take a bit, was expecting more.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  23. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    run it until it blows
    unless you are willing to have it sent someplace to have the bga completely redone leave it be odds are sending it out of gonna cost more then the card is worth
    and you will not beable to todo a proper reflow without special equipment and tools leave her be and worries about if it gives you problems
    tl:Dr its not worth fixing if it breaks again old card is old slow card is slow
    for 200 euro you could have a card that could stomp all over your 4850s in xfire =/
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  24. Hellraiser1981 New Member

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    Ok, low-budget method:
    1. Buy a $5 K-type thermocouple digital thermometer off Ebay.
    2. Bake card in oven at 105C for 10-24hrs to drive out moisture (longer the better) [all components are rated for 105c so card could even operate at this temp]
    3. Apply flux (I recommend kester 951 no-clean flux, yes very cheap off ebay 3-5$ for 1.25oz better deal might be a scam...) under the GPU while hot (don't burn yourself)
    4. Use kapton tape to apply thermocouple to the IHS of the GPU.
    5. Place back in oven set to 450F (~230C)
    6. Heat to 230C, maintain for 60-90 secs
    7. Cool the card SLOWLY (only a couple degrees per minute)
    8. Use Arctic Silver 5 (or another really good paste) for the HS/Fan.
    9. Install in system and beat the crap out of it with furmark for 8hrs or so to verify.
    10. enjoy free card for a year. lol
    ste2425 says thanks.
  25. ste2425

    ste2425

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    I have no intention of spend £166 on a graphics card (around what 200 euro converts too). Not at the moment anyway. I need to fit a new clutch to the Megane along with rent etc sadly i don't have that much money spare. Regardless i game at 1680 x 1050 so even if i do buy something that can outperform 4850's in xfire there's no need, then it would be bottle necked by my e8400, which would mean either oc or upgrade which would mean either buy new cpu or buy new psu for oc and new graphics card. Not worth it or viable at the moment.

    Plus the re flow sounds fun, the big-end-bearing went on my old corsa so i fitted a new engine with the awful safety jack that came with the car and a 15 piece halfords own socket set because it sounded fun, and it was :rockout:

    That, my friend, was exactly what i needed thank you very much. Come next pay day i shall get the few tools needed and give it a go. Ill be sure to update you all good or bad news. Thanks all for the help and advice :toast:

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