Headphone Change Time...Denon MM400 or Oppo PM-3?

[Kursah]

Well it has come...the day I feared. My beloved HiFiMan HE-400's are gonna get wrapped up and sold...with the extra pairs of velour and pleather pads.

I LOVE the sound of these headphones, but sadly the open design and other reasons are forcing me to sell them. They'll be posted here on TPU soon. I'm trying to delay as-long-as I can.

Moving on I am looking seriously at the Denon MM400's and Oppo PM-3's. Both are in the $300-400 range. Both are full-size closed back headphones that are held in high regards to audio sound, and both are easy to drive.

My trusty Aune T1 will be my driving source and has seen more use in the past month than it has ever seen in the year or two I've owned it...but that's par for my audio gear. I buy, use, store, bring back out, use, store, sell. Lol.

Anyone own either the MM400's or PM-3's? I still consider myself a bass head to a point, so I appreciate the ability but I also really enjoy the planar sound too...something about that fast response and separation that nothing else can quite seem to match keeps me coming back to my HE-400's no matter what else I listen to, including my old Denon D2000's (which might get sold too...).

I primarily game and listen to all sorts of music of varying quality but usually 320k MP3's and some FLAC, using Foobar and my Aune T1 to get the signal to my headphones of choice.

I want something in that price range (READ: if I can even afford that!!! ) that sounds great, is durable, comfortable, blocks audio and is solid for home-use. I don't plan on using them as portables, ever, I have my ear buds for that stuff in all honesty. But it appears the bestish closed headphones in this range are portable. Barring the HP50's and MP41's (I forget the correct model).

Thanks in advance!

 

[OneMoar]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761386/oppo-pm-3-vs-denon-mm400-and-oppo-pm-2-vs-hifiman-he-560

 

[Kursah]

Yep that thread kicked off my interest in the MM400's in the first place, which launched research and ultimately this thread.

 

[BumbleBee]

no one replied in that thread? the guy didn't give any analysis... if anything he talks more about the PM-2.

it worries me Tyll hasn't reviewed the Denon MM400.

I don't like the ear pads on the Denon and I don't think it's going to measure better than the Oppo PM-3.

the Oppo looks like it has more space and depth inside the cup. the ear pads on the Denon look like cheap pleather you find on $150 headphones. the padding on the Oppo headband looks thicker too.

 

[Kursah]

Agreed, what I've seen when they're in photos together, the Oppo's have better looking pads for sure. But can't say I've read many complaints about comfort from either too.

I am open to other closed back suggestions in that price range too!

 

[BumbleBee]

it's too bad the Shure SRH1540 are never on sale lol

I think you found your headphone. I don't think there is anything better than the Oppo PM-3 in this price range. I read somewhere the bass is nicer on the Oppo than the 400i

 

[AhokZYashA]

the PM3 is a very good set of headphones,
I think you cant go wrong,
or if you are willing to spend a bit more, you can get the MDR-Z7 from Sony.

 

[Kursah]

Well I'm questioning the PM3 only because of the lighter bass in comparison to the HE-400, which is lighter than my D2000 but still excellent. http://www.head-fi.org/t/756828/oppo-pm-3-the-portable-planar-impressions/750

Though maybe it won't be so bad with some EQ-ing and amping from my T1....

 

[Zakin]

Just saying the classic Denon line, (D2000/5000/7000) and HE400 have some of the most notorious bass of any headphone, almost any are a downgrade to them. Most audiophile headphones except Fostex TH600/900 aim for a more neutral response than visceral bass impact.

EDIT: On that note I'd definitely go with the PM3, some very notable people in the scene say they are killer and even prefer them to the PM1/2 saying they have a better response while costing less. Bit of a confusing one, but it is Oppo's first go into the headphone world. Denon's new line is most lackluster, and disappointing since they're no longer outsourcing Fostex drivers.

 

[Kursah]

Ya I still have a pull towards the PM-3, I will not lie the MM400 looks good and seems to review really well too. But the thinner padding has me concerned. I have read a couple times the MM400 is the "spiritual" successor to the D2000's. Not convinced yet.

I'm seeing if anyone locally wants to buy my HE-400's, but plan on putting them up here on TPU for sale with all the spare pads I've ordered that are still brand new here soon. I'm really gonna miss them phones, but no sense in keeping them if I cannot use them and enjoy them. I just wanna make sure they go to a good home!

 

[BumbleBee]

the colour choices and concept headband look interesting.

 

[Kursah]

I've spent more time researching, and I cannot whole-heartedly justify spending $400 on the MM400's. They look great, and most say sound great, some say they're the successor to the famed D2000's...which I'm speaking with Denon to order replacement hinge parts for.

But at this point if I get my HE-400's sold, and maaaaaybe my D2000's (trying to keep em) then I'm definitely going with the PM-3's! Get my planar sound, still what many report is decent bass, and a headphone that can play well with MP3 players and smartphones yet scales well with amplificaiton which means it should make good use of my Aune T1 to 0db (which I went to with now listening to my D2000's).

I'm actually tempted to just order the PM-3's now...

 

[Zakin]

Just saying if you sell your D2000s, repaired and all, you could likely in the right market (Head-fi) sell them for the retail price just because they're getting rarer. It's extremely common practice for the D5000/7000 to be sold a lot higher than brand new now. Those are higher models but still. Just something to keep in mind. I wouldn't blame you for keeping them, I've contemplated getting some D7000s, but at the same time it just seemed simpler to buy a TH600/900 instead as a lot of people call them the evolution.

 

[Kursah]

Ya I've seen D2000's even going for quite a bit more than I paid...which was a lot less than new.

The pair I got wasn't the best cared for from the kid I bought them from so it's been about 5-6 years worth of taking good care of them and fixing them where I can, but they sound great and are comfy. They are in great shape considering, and better shape than when I got em.

I just don't know if I want to sell them, at the same time, once I fix the hinges I don't know if I want to keep them either. So it's up in the air, if someone made me an offer I would likely seriously consider it. But there is one part no longer available from Denon, and I'm working with them to figure out which part that is.

Beyond that, I keep reading reviews and watching youtube vid reviews for the PM-3....damn tempting! Gonna go clean up my HE-400's after another good listening session...I will miss the soundstage, especially in Elite Dangerous. But it'll be nice to have closed back and still have planar drivers!

Edit: Order placed. Went with standard shipping since that pushed the price just past $400 and beyond my budget.... 3-day shipping from northern California at standard shipping prices is sweet! I went with the black ones, matches the rest of my gear.

 

[BumbleBee]

did one of the screws fall out? Mark Lawton can fix that but it probably won't be cheap.

 

[Kursah]

One of the screws is stretched out as-far-as I can tell...I've tried fixing it, and had luck previously...but it never seems to hold. The parts are pretty cheap, should be under $30 for two sets of parts. I'm pretty handy so I'm not gonna pay Mark $150+ to repair mine.... yet.

 

[Harbear]

I am literally sitting at the school library right now with both of these and auditing. XD

 

[xvi]

*looks at his Sennheiser HD 280 Pro*
*cries*

I only wish I had experience in the areas you're looking for. Sub'd though.

 

[Kursah]

I am literally sitting at the school library right now with both of these and auditing. XD

And what's your thoughts?

I have a 30-day return on the Oppo's and I'm debating it because of some bills that came up. I might just have to repair my D2000's and call it good there. Don't get me wrong, I love my D2000's but they're BORING compared to my HE-400's which don't wanna get sold!

Either rate, my Oppo's should arrive Thursday afternoon!

 

[Harbear]

I am using a JDS C5D streaming Spotify Premium, which is what these headphones are intended for anyway. I do not have time to pull out my desktop set up but I think it's not really all that necessary.

Note, this is only based on 2 hours of listening.

Bass:
- Denon has a stronger bass presence, no doubt. It offers more of a rumble in the sub-bass section. BUT, I find both Oppo and Denon offers similar amount of mid-bass. I cannot definitively say which one has the better bass. I think I am leaning towards Denon on the bass section, just because it has more presence. The problem is, with Denon's stronger bass and tighter soundstage, I find the mids being just slightly colored in some songs.

Mids:
- MM400 is slightly forward since the speakers are physically closer to your ears. The characteristics between the two are surprisingly similar though. If I have to be critical, I would say Oppo is a little bit more "easy going" and relaxed and MM400 is little more "in your face". Quality wise, they are both great, no real winner here.

Highs:
- Similar to what I said about the mids, they are both fairly similar and I am very happy with both. MM400 is slightly more extended, which can be good or bad depending on the listener. I had a hard time getting used to MM400's high in the beginning.

I think Oppo has better(not necessarily wider) sound stage and better separation. Because the speakers are so close to your ears, Denon makes it a little too intimate sometimes, especially with classical when I want to hear each sections of the orchestra.

Overall, I would say the sound quality between the two are very similar. Oppo is definitely more linear and "neater" and a bit more "cleaned-up". Denon offers a warmer sound with slightly extended highs and greater bass presence.

 

[Harbear]

And what's your thoughts?

I have a 30-day return on the Oppo's and I'm debating it because of some bills that came up. I might just have to repair my D2000's and call it good there. Don't get me wrong, I love my D2000's but they're BORING compared to my HE-400's which don't wanna get sold!

Either rate, my Oppo's should arrive Thursday afternoon!

Let me know if there is anything you want me to answer

 

[Kursah]

Do you EQ your headphones at all?

How about comfort? That's the one thing the HE-400 really lacked. My D2000 are comfy for about 2 hours or so before my ears get sweaty...and I don't like the loose clamp feeling... I'd rather deal with the tighter clamp and lowered comfort of the HE-400's...and honestly I can stand the 400's for a longer session that the D2000's if that's not odd!

Thank you sooooo much for your feedback!

 

[Harbear]

Do you EQ your headphones at all?

How about comfort? That's the one thing the HE-400 really lacked. My D2000 are comfy for about 2 hours or so before my ears get sweaty...and I don't like the loose clamp feeling... I'd rather deal with the tighter clamp and lowered comfort of the HE-400's...and honestly I can stand the 400's for a longer session that the D2000's if that's not odd!

Thank you sooooo much for your feedback!

Nope, not EQed at all.

Mhm.. if you have big ears then MM400 might not be the best for you. I would definitely prefer the PM3 for comfort. But I do not find MM400 uncomfortable. I have regular sized ears I would say...

 

[Kursah]

I have always had large ears, they don't stick out very far though. I'm kind of hoping for something similar to my old Sony XB500's in terms of comfort (except with more clamping pressure due to weight and design).

I am an EQer kinda guy, so if I gotta EQ some more bass into the PM-3's I will and I have been reading the head-fi thread and it seems they respond well to a little EQ-ing. We shall see!

Thanks again for the input!

 

[Harbear]

I have always had large ears, they don't stick out very far though. I'm kind of hoping for something similar to my old Sony XB500's in terms of comfort (except with more clamping pressure due to weight and design).

I am an EQer kinda guy, so if I gotta EQ some more bass into the PM-3's I will and I have been reading the head-fi thread and it seems they respond well to a little EQ-ing. We shall see!

Thanks again for the input!

Yep. And honestly, both headphones offer a great experience, and I would say you can get very similar sound with EQ tweaking. The big thing you need to consider is how the distance of the speakers affect the sound. Some prefer a more forward and upfront sound, which would want the MM400, and others will go for Oppo.

Enjoy listening!