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Help w/ putting paging file in its own partition?

Discussion in 'General Software' started by stealthfighter, Aug 15, 2006.

  1. stealthfighter

    stealthfighter New Member

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    I read about this somewhere before, but I don't know how to do it. I know this much:
    If you make it 4096MB and put it in its own partition it won't fragment and it will be a performance gain. How do you actually put it in it's own partition? I only have one HDD (120GB 133mb/sec) and it's in NTFS format. any help?
     
  2. KennyT772

    KennyT772 New Member

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    um doesnt make a difference. u need two drives for this to have any effect as fragmentation isnt an issue. the pf section of a hard drive is a uninterupted patch of hard drive so it doesnt frag. for a speed boost put a second hdd in your comp and format a 4gig partition on it then format the rest of the drive. that 4gig partition will be right at the center of the drive and will give a pf boost. you are better off just adding more ram then worrying about the pf though.
     
  3. stealthfighter

    stealthfighter New Member

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    Now I need another drive? argh
     
  4. KennyT772

    KennyT772 New Member

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    no u only need another drive to do what u want to do. well save reformatting the whole thing and a bunch of other work.

    plain and simple theres no real gain from doing it. if you are that concerned with the page file then buy another $30 stick of ram and u will get a much better performance increase.
     
  5. Alec§taar New Member

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    Good point on the RAM... but, now onto the pagefile.sys stuff!

    On that? WELL, agreed, for the most part... with some reservations BECAUSE HE ONLY HAS A SINGLE HARDDISK DRIVE!

    (& especially about formatting, he MAY not have to do that, there is always tools like PQMagic & ones like it)!

    See, the "middle of the disk placement of pagefile.sys" is a "hot topic" too, because theoretically ON A SINGLE DISKDRIVE SYSTEM?

    Since it is the middle area of your single HDD, it is the 'optimal area' the disk head should sweep over equally fast from, even if coming from the extreme far end of the disk, to the other!


    (Good point to debate in & of itself on THAT note: I get into it @ thru to the end of this post, do read on, offer your thoughts please)!

    Well, middisk pagefile.sys placement is MUCH like a "Binary Search" pattern!

    Which uses cutting sets to search in 1/2, speed up seeks, & this is HOW NTFS performs fileseeks, VERY FAST, as opposed to FAT/FAT32.

    On a single diskdrive, that houses your OS/Programs/Data all? You'll need a partition resizing tool like Partition Magic... to do a "non-destructive" partition resize, AND keep your current setup too, and yet have the middle of disk pagefile.sys benny you can see theoretically @ least, on a single drive box!

    That's IF you want to keep your current data & setup, in place preserved w/ out losing it via a new OS install etc. & reformatting as well!

    (THAT is if you don't to GHOST type images etc. &/or backups that is)

    So, IF you want to place a tiny partition in the midpoint of your diskdrive to get the "bennies" of middisk placed pagefiles, which are GOOD on singledisk systems for an overall balance between pagefile.sys performance, & OS + Programs performance... (w/out destroying existing data & setups, which take TIME to get right, imo @ least)?

    AND, get better overall performance outta a single drive system?

    That'd be a "way"...

    HOWEVER... I would put the pagefile.sys @ the outermost FIRST partition though, of 2nd disk to use as a pagefile mechanism!

    It should perform more than just potentially even better if on its own partition (avoiding fragging up other files present on said partition) & the FIRST partition of another diskdrive.

    WHY? Logic, & PHYSICS!

    Read on:

    Faster tracks are @ the outermost areas of a disk (larger circumference & all that) & you get FASTER paging performance that way... & yes, guys, you are ALWAYS paging... proofs are in the URL below you can try for yourselves.

    (Since it is a SEPARATE DISKDRIVE, an entirely diff. set of heads is doing the seeking... not the same disk (where mid disk placement of pagefile.sys makes sense, because other files are present & being used)).

    You get the 2nd HDD doing nearly nothing else but paging & from its OUTERMOST fastest tracks & even better if you say, store your data on it (not your OS & programs) in a 2nd later partition, & keep the pagefile.sys on the first partition on those outermost faster HDD tracks!

    Man, it's not true... sorry to say that! Pagefiles do frag... first of all. And, they're NOT always "contiguous" either (@ OS setup, yes, but they do NOT stay that way), unfortunately - especially if you hit "BIG DATA" that is larger than your RAM in chips + your pagefile.sys current size!

    Especially if placed out of a separate partition from the OS & programs files especially (yes, data files too to an extent, perhaps moreso - these grow typically) & set as dynamically resizing/OS controlled.

    (Why else would disk defraggers like Diskeeper, O&O Defrag, &/or PerfectDisk have boottime options for pagefile.sys defragmentation then?)

    It happens, if you use a dynamically resizing pagefile.sys... even if you "wipe it @ shutdown" for security purposes, it will reform, & into spaces it needs to make it the size you wish (or the OS governs, this depends on if you set it yourself, or let the OS size it for you).

    If the space it forms in, IF you wipe it, or reset it, is NOT "contiguous"...? You'll get a fragged up pagefile.sys, nearly guaranteed, if there isn't enough "contiguous" (fancy word for unfragged/continuous) space to form it unfragged.

    Now, if you use a STATIC, unresizing pagefile.sys, & formed it right off when you did your OS & put it @ a size your OS' kernel memory mgt. subsystem won't demand more of (when pressured by app demands & such), as stealthfighter is out to do (max 4gb 32-bit addressable size)?

    You SHOULD technically be set, & NOT ever see a fragged up pagefile.sys!

    Pagefile.sys also frags IF you make demands on it, that even IT cannot satisfy + your system RAM in chips... it will grow & frag itself if the space used is not "contiguous", & possibly other files forming at the same time or afterwards as well. Especially if NOT set "static/unresizing" in nature, & are not @ the "max" 4gb size.

    (Still, even IF you go static & NOT set @ max 4gb size? Well, from what I recall? IF you make TOO huge of a demand on the memory you don't have in RAM chips & your pagefile.sys is TOO small...? It will grow, anyhow! The OS does this, to protect itself from what I recall... & if you run outta diskspace? It may "yell" it does not have enough RAM to run the program etc.)

    APK

    P.S.=> StealthFighter: I think you saw my discussion w/ Trog100, here on these forums, in this thread!

    (I have had this 'argument' with tons of folks online before over a decade now, as well as about sizings & such, since minimizing pagefiles years ago when disks weren't that big & cheap was important):

    http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=15577

    My explanations/proofs used there, MUST have made some sense to you... after all, why attempt to implement them, right? Assuming you saw them there that is... & here on these forums!

    By the way, in case ANY of you need this? Well - YOU CAN USE MULTIPLE PAGEFILES, on multiple disks, and it will use them ALL as needed... apk
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2006
  6. Alec§taar New Member

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    ^
    |

    "UP"

    :)

    (For stealthfighter's reference)

    APK
     
  7. bbriand New Member

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    I agree with Alec.

    If you work off only one partition then this I would first do either option A or option B:

    A
    1. Set the page file to none
    2. Reboot
    3. Defrag (a couple times)
    4. Set a Paging file with Min and Max sizes as equal

    B
    1. Set a Paging file with Min and Max sizes as equal
    2. Use a defrag utility that works at boot time (before NT/XP loads)

    Either way you get a pagefile that won't frag on you. Although I find that windows defrag doesn't always move the files together. I miss Nortons Speed disk for that feature.

    If you can slice off a partition of say 2-4 gigs then you could use that exclusively for a pagefile file.

    My personal preference with pagefiles is 2 hard drives. The second hard drive would have a 3-4 gig partition formatted as FAT32 where I would place a swap file.

    I also would keep a swap file on the OS drive (usually C: on most systems). Some programs need a swap file on the OS drive.

    Windows will use the swap file in a load balancing system. So say if there is a lot of read/write activities happening on the C: drive then it will use the other drives swap file.

    Good Luck,
    Bill
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2006
  8. KennyT772

    KennyT772 New Member

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    i just reformatted but on my last install i had that setup:fat32 pf on secondary hdd. thing is i watch my ram usage pretty closly (gotta love the g15 kb) and i havnt maxxed out 1 gig yet. i dont know how you guys do it but i never have...
     
  9. Alec§taar New Member

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    I haven't, but the point is? You are always paging, especially your EXPLORER.EXE gui desktop shell... how can I say that??

    Simple: You can say it & SEE IT, yourself, by performing an easy experiment of observation of it yourself, noted in this thread here:

    http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=15577

    I had to "prove that" to our man Trog100 there in fact... by letting him prove it, to himself, with HIS system & apps/data. The BEST way...

    * Taskmgr.exe - it's your "analysis friend" in this capacity, by using its PROCESSES tab, & its VIEW menu, SELECT COLUMNS submenu options & checking off all the memory related columns for display (especially PAGEFAULTS - this IS paging being monitored!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Other experiments exist there too, ones that show you how apps operate & page to pagefile.sys when you say, run them in a normal window & then minimize them, & then restore them once more...

    So, thus?

    You can see it, for yourself!

    See - folks think you can operate w/ out a pagefile.sys IF you have say over 1-4gb of RAM in chips on your system, & for a while with some things, you can, as long as you don't generate LARGE data that overruns your RAM in chips on your mobo...

    HOWEVER in certain conditions, like it or not, a temporary pagefile.sys will form under %SystemRoot% & its name is temppf.sys, so Windows will create one in certain conditions anyhow, a temporary one, because since you page constantly anyhow?

    It has to have an area of "Fake RAM" to page to on disk... period... no avoiding it @ times! apk
     
  10. Cj_Staal New Member

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    It needs a FAT32 partition and it will be faster.. uhh you have to reformat your harddrive to have 2 partitions, 1 for windows (NTFS) and 1 for pagefile (FAT32)
     
  11. Cj_Staal New Member

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    NOOOOOOOOO DUDE THERE IS. I HAVE 2 gigs of ram and putting the pagefile on my other partition decreased my windows loading time by like 12 seconds SERIOUSLY
     
  12. Alec§taar New Member

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    Agreed, & GOOD point - I'd also use FAT32 (since it is more "space-efficient", vs. 'cluster-slack', than FAT16 is) for a pagefile.sys partition!

    Especially if you reghack (or GUI use gpedit.msc/secpol.msc) to "wipe" the pagefile.sys CLEAN @ reconstruct a fresh one @ bootup.

    After all - you DO lose 20% of your diskspace to the MFT$ using NTFS, & you can't 'compress' (as NTFS can) pagefile.sys either (would be GREAT if you could, because it would "double" your RAM in a way (VM, but then, it is ALL virtual memory to Windows NT-based OS anyhow)).

    * Fat32 IS the way to go for a pagefile.sys partition, imo as well... & has been for years, see here, since 1997 or so (& before, since using NTFS made NO sense to me per the reasons given above):

    http://www.avatar.demon.nl/page/index.html

    APK
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2006

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