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highend soundcard

Darren

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excuse me, the X-Fi prelude uses drivers supplied by Creative. DTS Interactive and DTS NeoPC feature-sets are not yet part of the package and will be included as a free driver update which implies that the March 2008 driver update for the X-Fi from Creative will feature these updates as well. Auzen cannot include a software feature-set of its own that's exclusive to the X-Fi Prelude as it owes the design patent and driver-support/updates to Creative.

Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.
 

Darren

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Wait a minute. Doesn't the Fatal1ty champion have software decode of DTS Neo6 with the bundled PowerDVD? http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=16559&nav=2

The box of my Xtreme Gamers shows the company logos of both DTS and Dolby Digital EX (back of the box) and that the decode is supported by the card when used with PowerDVD??

Says the box:
"Enjoy the ultimate PC movie experience with the latest cinematic technologies

The Sound Blaster X-Fi sound card delivers THX certified surround wound and includes Cyberlink's PowerDVD software with DTS and Dolby Digital-EX decoding via free download for an unbeatable DVD movie watching experience. (Internet connection is required)"


What Creative don't tell you is that encoding is not possible, it has never been possible on any creative card to my knowledge apart from their new Prelude with Auzentech's help. Encoding is when the sound signals algorithm are reproduce DTS/Dolby bitstreams ready for your reciever to decode.

Decoding and encoding are completely different kettles of fish. Creative have always lied to their customers making them think they are getting true 5.1 by putting Dolby Digital logo's on their boxes. The truth is using PowerDVD or any other commercial software such WinDVD one can achieve decoding of Dolby or DTS with a cheap £7 soundcard, aslong as the soundscard has SPDIF and the material in which you are playing is a genuine DVD pre-encoded in 5.1 and it will pass through to the reciever.
 
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T

TechnicalFreak

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If there is anyone here who makes music (except me) , then I can recommend the Apogee Symphony sound card. 32Channels , digital I/O 24bit/192Khz. It is also possible to have 3 cards in the same system (connected to each other somehow) and get a total of 96Channels.
 
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That's because it was insanely expensive to produce at that time and that NVidia was shifting its financial resources to the development of the NForce platform for the AMD K8.

That and Soundstorm did have problems its self, a few boards had a minor noise.
 

department76

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Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.

very interesting.

i know that auzentech already has a DDL driver out, i wouldn't mind waiting a couple months to switch over to DTSC. no matter which way i try to slice it, it seems that the prelude is the only card that has everything that i want. that's very shocking and disappointing that creative cards won't encode!

alright, it's about decided. right now i'm picturing a prelude, then eventually buying the I/O bay for X-Fi for it :)
 
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imperialreign

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Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.

it wouldn't stop creative from extending support, though - they are the nVidia of the audio realm. If they do decide to go that route, the high end card will probably be the only ones to recieve those drivers - as I've said, the high end cards are capable of it, but there is currently no driver support. If you take a look at their product listings on Creative's site - only the XGFP, Fatal1ty Champion, and Elite Pro models are advertised as Dolby decoding capable - the Xtreme Gamer and Xtreme Audio are advertised as decoding capable with software.


What Creative don't tell you is that encoding is not possible, it has never been possible on any creative card to my knowledge apart from their new Prelude with Auzentech's help. Encoding is when the sound signals algorithm are reproduce DTS/Dolby bitstreams ready for your reciever to decode.

Decoding and encoding are completely different kettles of fish. Creative have always lied to their customers making them think they are getting true 5.1 by putting Dolby Digital logo's on their boxes. The truth is using PowerDVD or any other commercial software such WinDVD one can achieve decoding of Dolby or DTS with a cheap £7 soundcard, aslong as the soundscard has SPDIF and the material in which you are playing is a genuine DVD pre-encoded in 5.1 and it will pass through to the reciever.

then again, Creative have never said that Dolby encoding was possible, either, and have been quite frank about the downsampled 7.1 -> 5.1, even with their flagship card. Lest we forget, the X-Fi was originally designed more towards gaming and audio file playback, moreso than for any HD capability.

Not trying to entirelly defend the Creative lineup, as anyone looking for a card more for DVD viewing, true multi-channle playback, etc, I'd recommend they go with the Prelude instead.
 

Darren

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imperialreign, X-Fi came out three years ago, August 2005 according to Wikipedia. They have had plenty of time to extend their support and implement encoding capabilities. It's not going to happen especially now it would ruin sales for their "Prelude".
 
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imperialreign

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imperialreign, X-Fi came out three years ago, August 2005 according to Wikipedia. They have had plenty of time to extend their support and implement encoding capabilities. It's not going to happen especially now it would ruine sales for their "Prelude".

very true, and, my personal opinion here (not stouting any facts like I was earlier) - I don't see Creative offering support anytime soon, either - granted, it'd be nice, though. Except for a few models, they cater to the low-end crowd; partly why there is such a massive jump in price between the XGFP and their lower models.

Unless consumers demanded it, I don't think it'll ever happen - Creative would have to start losing a vast amount of market share, and with their low end models in every hardware store across the nation, that won't ever happen, either.

TBH, though, I would really like to be able to see some other audio cards on a shelf next to Creative's. Even with CompUSA being the best source for hardware, they never even carried any of Auzen's cards. :ohwell:
 

ChillyMyst

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sait this b4 and i will say it again, creative dosnt give a shit about the costmer, they care about 1 thing, making as much off their name as possable, their driver supports horrible they dont test things properly, they dennie or ignore problems people report, i wont own another creative product.

cmedia chips are the only real alternitive for most users, the via envy chipsets drivers for games suck(good for videos and such tho...)

people just need to give up on creative acctualy ever getting their act togather and realise there are other better options.

and it is happening slowly, people are getting sick of stuff like the pci-e x-fi cards whos drivers suck total ass, slowly but surely people are moving to cards that offer better support and better useable fetures :)
 

btarunr

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sait this b4 and i will say it again, creative dosnt give a shit about the costmer, they care about 1 thing, making as much off their name as possable, their driver supports horrible they dont test things properly, they dennie or ignore problems people report, i wont own another creative product.

C-Media does give a shit, doesn't it? :rolleyes: just that you should be a fluent Chinese speaker to even say Hi to them, start off with Yihao. Problem is that Sound Blaster cards come with so many features that people get confused with them and contact Creative for things as trivial as "How do I attach a microphone", "How to change to Game mode", etc.

cmedia chips are the only real alternitive for most users, the via envy chipsets drivers for games suck(good for videos and such tho...)

wrong. C-Media is no better than VIA Envy or some ADI chips. They're all software driven chips that make the system CPU to do their jobs, with no environmental effects than the dated EAX 2.0. The real Creative killer was the NVidia Soundstorm but that was cannibalised.

people just need to give up on creative acctualy ever getting their act togather and realise there are other better options.

Okay, enlightened soul, lets say I have $80 for a sound-card for gaming, music, give me one sound card that has a significant impact on my overall system performance and improved gaming and music audio. I'd say Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer, your suggestion?

and it is happening slowly, people are getting sick of stuff like the pci-e x-fi cards whos drivers suck total ass, slowly but surely people are moving to cards that offer better support and better useable fetures :)

The PCI-E X-Fi card has no audio processor. Besides please don't base your contentions on release drivers, base them on the current ones that people aren't having problems with. The problem with most people is that they splash mud on Creative when it releases a buggy driver and never take back their words when Creative fixes them. Absolutely no sound-card maker (barring Auzentech) have the brains of making solutions like Creative do.

PS. Should you have trouble with Creative Support, just click on the black box in my signature, to our support syndicate, we'll be more than glad to help you :p
 

ChillyMyst

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bullshit, check around, creatives current drivers are full of buggs, read their forums, ask around on here and other places, plenty of people have things like.
100% cpu use on some x-fi models
mode change not working
drivers failing to start/work(rare these days but it still happens!!)


as to cmedia, your a MORON, i have personaly requested updates from their FORUMS that are in ENGLISH and had their programer post an update within 2 days, cmedia also has updated drivers for chips as old as the 8738, a card as old as the sblive, creative dosnt even have proper working drivers for xp x64 for the SB live 5.1 cards....yet cmedia updated their 8738 drivers for 2000,xp,xp64,vista(all versions) gee i think that shows they do care about costmers not just selling their latist and greatist chipset with the go faster stripes and extreamly bloated software pack.

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/forums/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=b2fc31b266e374cabf6c9b8c2ed343d2

just an example, check around, cmedia has updated drivers for their oldist chips be it ac97 or full on codecs.

and i hate to mention this but eax is crap, the ONLY reasion the cmedia cards dont have current EAX support is NOTHING to do with hardware, its creative not wanting to allow another company to support their only selling point, even if that selling point is based on a lie, once you hit a certen number of voices the human brain cant prosess any more and it just becomes noise, eax3/4/5 are past that limmit.

also not some current games dont even support eax above 2 because the vast majority of gamers have onboard sound or cards that arent by creative.

as to your 80$ question.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001
cmedia 8770 based "HT OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail"

check the specs of the 8770 vs the x-fi for specs and abilitys, hate to tell ya this but dispite lack of an APU it still gives better sound with effectivly no perf impact, compared against the x-fi in reviews i have seen there effectivly no diffrance, the x-fi can do some stuff in hardware that the cmi cards do with cpu, but the cmi cards drivers are FAR lighter on the system, they are SMALL they work excelently, the creative drivers are what now 50mb or more?

lets do a dirrect comparison here :)

cmi 8788 driver is 5.3mb for the FULL DRIVER including the full xear suit(eq and such)

creative x-fi xgamer edition driver is 43.53 MB thats the basic driver mind you......

so 5.3mb
vs 43.53 MB

i will look up the charts somebody posted on here comparing the x-fi specs to the 8770 and such from cmi(auzentech cards) it was quite a slap in the face to x-fi when it came to quility and fetures.......specly since AFIK they still dont got vista drivers 100% for the x-fi and hardware acceleration........
 

ChillyMyst

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http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=243469&postcount=53

you can get ddl/dts playback support out of those cheap cards, but its not real time encoding its playback of PRE-RECORDED STREAMS so if you attempt to force it to real time encode a non ddl/dts sorce on the fly it cant/wont.

oh and your great "openal support"


orignal sorce AUZENTECH WEBSITE!!!

try this for some links to reviews that compare you POS creative card(pos because creatives drivers and support suck.) with auzentech cards
http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/review.php#xmeridian

oh and check these charts!!!

128voices :O wow same as creative, look better 7.1 sound auzen=24bit-192khz x-fi= 24bit 96kiz, wow guess ur cards not the best ROFL

now you can admit your full of crap or you can just look like an @ss

knew i saw it someplace quite a while back(prof lurker here!!!)






challenging somebody whos life basickly is sitting at the computer reading about computer stuff when hes not working/building/repaing computers is a bad idea just so you know, i think this pretty much shows that your "x-fi is supperior in every way" like of BS is just that BS, creative has the edge in name recognition thats about it.

oh please take not of one other thing, if you do a bit of in depth research you will find that some game devs acctualy prefer dealing with software rendering for their game audio because they can do things in software that are hard to do in hardware on creative cards.

well back to forum hoping :)

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board?board.id=soundblaster

if there are no problems with the x-fi and its drivers are great whats this about, i count a good number of multi page threds in there about stuff like
"X-Fi XtremeMusic - High Pitched Noise"
"Follow-up: Crackle/Pop issues"
and my favorite
"Petition to demand Creative to release new XP driver for X-Fi soundcard."

haha, probbly wont happen, creatives already moved on to a new gen of cards so the x-fi are probbly only gonna get 1/4 assed updates(1/4 because i feel their update efforts at best are 1/2 assed)
 
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btarunr

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Let me take this piece by piece:

bullshit, check around, creatives current drivers are full of buggs, read their forums, ask around on here and other places, plenty of people have things like.
100% cpu use on some x-fi models
mode change not working
drivers failing to start/work(rare these days but it still happens!!)

How come I've come across such issues with neiher my Xtreme Gamer nor X-Fi Prelude 7.1 ? so haven't the many TPU users with X-Fi cards? Here's the whole thing: People don't know how to use the cards in accordance to the electronic documentation that ship with the cards, change the modes when an audio application is active and reserved hardware channels and you're bound for the card locking up because when in entertainment mode, the card is no better than any other card, it uses the CPU for audio sampling and the CA20K1 is inert. When you switch to the Game mode, the audio stacks are re-routed to the CA20K1 and if there's an active audio application that has reserved two hardware sound channels irrespective of it playing audio, you're bound for a crash, which is why there's a clear mention to quit all audio applications when switching modes. 100% CPU usage has 1000000 reasons behind it, no sound card can load the CPU 100% unless it's a 80486 we're talking about. the CPU usage could be because of other processes and while mode switch, the CPU has to perform many operations to re-route the audio data-path at a hardware level.


as to cmedia, your a MORON, i have personaly requested updates from their FORUMS that are in ENGLISH and had their programer post an update within 2 days, cmedia also has updated drivers for chips as old as the 8738, a card as old as the sblive, creative dosnt even have proper working drivers for xp x64 for the SB live 5.1 cards....yet cmedia updated their 8738 drivers for 2000,xp,xp64,vista(all versions) gee i think that shows they do care about costmers not just selling their latist and greatist chipset with the go faster stripes and extreamly bloated software pack.

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/forums/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=b2fc31b266e374cabf6c9b8c2ed343d2

just an example, check around, cmedia has updated drivers for their oldist chips be it ac97 or full on codecs.

I hope you already know that every old sound card for which you don't find a driver on Creative's website has a reason for it, that the Windows OS from Windows 2000 upwards ships with the latest stable drivers for it, just that you don't get the fancy applications and that's justified, My 1996 SB Ensoniq PCI card has a superb driver that Windows XP came with that made it sound better than with those older drivers. The driver provider is Creative. So oldest drivers being avaiable on C-Media's website actually goes on to show C-Media failed in sharing their latest drivers with Microsoft to include in their OS releases, which Creative did. The oldest Sound Blaster PCI can still work brilliantly on any Windows XP machine but even Windows XP SP2 doesn't come with bundled drivers for the CMI8738.


and i hate to mention this but eax is crap, the ONLY reasion the cmedia cards dont have current EAX support is NOTHING to do with hardware, its creative not wanting to allow another company to support their only selling point, even if that selling point is based on a lie, once you hit a certen number of voices the human brain cant prosess any more and it just becomes noise, eax3/4/5 are past that limmit.

skunkshit. Did you ever play Doom 3 with EAX 4.0 HD on? Play it and do yourself a big favour why are so many games coming with HW sampling of audio, reverb effects? You have to experience it and then speak and not simply call something crap just because you don't have it (I used a X-Meridean for a month, my cousins on his machine and I liked it for its components more than the CMI 8788).

also not some current games dont even support eax above 2 because the vast majority of gamers have onboard sound or cards that arent by creative.

Valve Source engine does EAX 3.0, Unreal Engine 3 does EAX 5.0 HD, CryEngine 2 does EAX 3.0, id Doom 3 engine derived games do EAX 4.0 HD under OpenAL. Pretty much every good current game title uses either of the above engines. If you ask me, EAX 4 ~ 5 HD (24-bit, 192 KHz sample rate, 128 hardware and 65536 software voices) is a big loss if I don't choose a sound-card with the X-Fi processor. If there aren't sufficient hardware voice channels, you're bound for choppy, scratchy audio.

as to your 80$ question.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001
cmedia 8770 based "HT OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail"

Puhleez, did you even read when I said "overall system performance"? The X-Fi cards really do give performance boost when gaming, and for what I get for $80 from a Xtreme Gamer is more than what I get from a Striker, sure it comes with the DTS/DD formats et al but the pros of the X-Fi far outrun that from a Striker. Hardware accelerated audio, better music with the Crystalizer, etc.

check the specs of the 8770 vs the x-fi for specs and abilitys, hate to tell ya this but dispite lack of an APU it still gives better sound with effectivly no perf impact, compared against the x-fi in reviews i have seen there effectivly no diffrance, the x-fi can do some stuff in hardware that the cmi cards do with cpu, but the cmi cards drivers are FAR lighter on the system, they are SMALL they work excelently, the creative drivers are what now 50mb or more?

lets do a dirrect comparison here :)

cmi 8788 driver is 5.3mb for the FULL DRIVER including the full xear suit(eq and such)

creative x-fi xgamer edition driver is 43.53 MB thats the basic driver mind you......

so 5.3mb
vs 43.53 MB

i will look up the charts somebody posted on here comparing the x-fi specs to the 8770 and such from cmi(auzentech cards) it was quite a slap in the face to x-fi when it came to quility and fetures.......specly since AFIK they still dont got vista drivers 100% for the x-fi and hardware acceleration........

Congratulations, you lose. Forget the CMI 8770, let's take on CMI 8788 instead, with all the applications you claim don't do big deal with X-Fi:

Continue reading this article: http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/456/9

Woh oh, you have a problem with a 43.53 MB driver :twitch: are you running your system off a pen-drive? Don't NVidia Foreware also come around 30~42 MB? For all the OpenAL ICD, the configuration modules, the software libraries for the countless features, 44 MB is more than justified.
 
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btarunr

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Okay your charts mean something, aren't they picked off from Auzentech's website? I remember seeing them on Auzen's website so you can prettymuch guess its authenticity as those charts were on Auzen's website way before they made the X-Fi Prelude. One of my earliest posts show my contention, the Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Professional is the best performing card for gaming and the Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1 for everything else you're rallying around like DTS/DD/SHIT whatever, but it's the best sounding card based on my experience, end of it the X-Fi wins, made my Creative or Auzen. :rolleyes:
 

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It's all greek to me baby!
 

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Whatever, I'm out of this thread. Let people choose what pleases them that what benefits them.
 

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edit: double post
 

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Yeah, but if all you can go on is others opinions....
 

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Whatever, I'm out of this thread. Let people choose what pleases them that what benefits them.

Well at the end of the day it always comes down to personal choice, what you like and want isn't what everybody else likes and wants and you cant force that.

Before you head off you made a reference earlier to Guru3D's review. I actually went back and looked at an old "Auzentech X-Meridian" review and read the conclusion.


Conclusion : Guru3D's Auzentech X-Meridian review



I liked the X-Meridian the best while gaming. The X-Fi has only one advantage over the X-Meridian and that is during BF2142: it makes the gun sound louder than anything else in the game. That to me is more realistic, because guns are loud. But other than that, EAX in general is too heavy handed. I like the idea of environmental modeling of sound, it is a vital immersive effect, but EAX HD still doesn't fool me into thinking I'm there in that environment. Perhaps it is a developer care and consideration issue.

The X-Meridian’s strongest point is its amazing analog output. It measured about the same as Creative’s X-Fi with RMAA 5.5, and yet sounded so much more detailed.

However, if you want something that sounds better than an X-Fi, then go grab one with two fists and don't let go until it's inside your computer

Full review from btarunr's precious Guru3D -> http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/399/13/
 

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So, you would assume the new Auzentech would also be good.
 

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Read the review, and make up your own mind.
 

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I don't hate a X-Meridean, in fact if Auzen hadn't stopped its production, I would have bought it instead of a X-Fi Prelude, I'm a big fan of its Asahi Kasei DACs and replaceable OPAMPS, let me be honest. The X-Merridean was an equally expensive card but that is the best sounding card for digital media consumption even today and I wouldn't have minded calling it the best, just that it's no more in production.
 

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Okay, IDK, so, I'll just get the new AuzenTech since the old one is discontinued.
 

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THIS THREAD = :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :slap: :banghead: :shadedshu


Alright - as to the whole driver support deal with Creative, etc - Creative's tech support might not be the greatest, but they've had to resort to the idiot-proof customer support that many other large companies have. Meaning, you ask them a question anf they'll respond asking you to make sure your drivers are up to date, that you installe dthat card correctly, etc - granted, people like us will become irritated by that, but we can't fault Creative for the rest of the tech-illiterate world.

Besides, Creative will also respond to direct email inquiries within a day or two, also.

X-Fi Vista drivers = :shadedshu WHAT HARDWARE COMPANY HAS YET TO RELEASE 100% STABLE VISTA DRIVERS?!!!! - you can't fault Creative for this, as the Vista OS completely changes up how operations are handled. At least Creative has taken the time, along with writing Vista drivers, to assemble a set of drivers that give you some amount of hardware acceleration back, the ALchemy drivers. Has any other audio company? No . . . but then again, everyone else has been content with only having EAX 2.0 support.

EAX = really boils down to personal taste. Some people love it, some hate it. There's also a big dependancy on the game authors and how they chose to make use of the EAX DSPs. There are many great games out there that sound like absolute butt with EAX enabled due to poor implimentation on the game authors part.


http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=243469&postcount=53



knew i saw it someplace quite a while back(prof lurker here!!!)






challenging somebody whos life basickly is sitting at the computer reading about computer stuff when hes not working/building/repaing computers is a bad idea just so you know, i think this pretty much shows that your "x-fi is supperior in every way" like of BS is just that BS, creative has the edge in name recognition thats about it.

oh please take not of one other thing, if you do a bit of in depth research you will find that some game devs acctualy prefer dealing with software rendering for their game audio because they can do things in software that are hard to do in hardware on creative cards.

well back to forum hoping :)

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board?board.id=soundblaster

if there are no problems with the x-fi and its drivers are great whats this about, i count a good number of multi page threds in there about stuff like
"X-Fi XtremeMusic - High Pitched Noise"
"Follow-up: Crackle/Pop issues"
and my favorite
"Petition to demand Creative to release new XP driver for X-Fi soundcard."

haha, probbly wont happen, creatives already moved on to a new gen of cards so the x-fi are probbly only gonna get 1/4 assed updates(1/4 because i feel their update efforts at best are 1/2 assed)



So . . . . you're using a chart that compares the discontinued Auzentach cards (very high end) to Creative's low-end cards?!! :wtf: Where does that makes sense?

Plus, you're citing a thread that's dated about a year ago, before Creative's driver release last year (late Feb, early Mar, IIRC). Citing old hardware issues as the basis for an argument that have since been taken care of is poor practice, and very misleading to people that are here trying to learn something.
 
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