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Horrible pictures of dead caps

Discussion in 'Cases, Modding & Electronics' started by trodas, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    you can't, really . . . aside from purchasing higher end hardware, or hardware that uses solid state capacitors.

    But, the electrolyte capacitors will fail sooner or later. The really cheap ones can fail within a couple of weeks, some might last a couple of months, some longer. The better quality ones will typically outlast the component itself, though.
  2. FilipM

    FilipM New Member

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    ROFLMAO!!!

    But still, I feel sorry for the guy.
  3. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    keep the components cool, and dry if possible. The one that caught fire on my friend was overclocked 24/7 and near an open window - overnight frosts got in and cause condensation, which made them die faster somehow.

    That was a pretty excessive case, but really all you can do is delay it or buy a board with solid caps.
  4. Random Murderer

    Random Murderer The Anti-Midas

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    well, you can use a Blackgate 2200µf, 16v electrolytic cap to replace the one that was shown leaking in your pic and it will actually provide better sound than the original. Nichicons work well, too.:toast:
  5. Grings

    Grings New Member

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    trodas says thanks.
  6. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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  7. Random Murderer

    Random Murderer The Anti-Midas

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    he replaced it with a sanyo:shadedshu
    i guess he wants it to blow again...
  8. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    yeah. from what i saw, all of the people who had them die were at 1.6v or higher, and 90% of them had negative CPU temps (most likely those people were the ones to overvolt higher)

    i dont run beyond 1.45 so i'm fine :)
  9. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    Well, as I intend to recap and re-component the whole card (Jamicons are good, but they're notorious for leaking sooner or later), the Blackgate is premo on my list, and for the rest of the lineup I was thinking Nichicons also, or possibly Rubycons. That specific one I found a pic of is the single most notorious cap for causing problems on the X-Fis, prob due to it being the power filter for the board.

    On the early cards (without heatsinks for the APU), the smaller caps would usually go first, though. The addition of the heatsink solved that problem.
  10. trodas

    trodas

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    There is a lot of things posted about caps, so I would like to take a small pause and tell there something about caps and lifetime.

    Bad news first - every capacitor will fail.
    No arguing there, please, it is sad yet true. Every.

    Caps have a life span. However it is like 2 000 to 7 000h per type (some even more) at the rated maximal temperature 105°C and with maximal ripple. Now for each 10°C down from the rated 105°C (for the 105°C caps) does the guaranteed lifetime DOUBLE (still with maximal ripple!) ;) Hence in the absolutely WORST case:
    105°C - 2 000h
    95°C - 4 000h
    85°C - 8 000h
    75°C - 16 000h
    65°C - 32 000h
    55°C - 64 000h
    45°C - 128 000h
    Now bear in mind, that year has only 8 544h ;) Hence well-cooled cap has to stay alive at least 14,9 years with every parameter in limits. Caps failing in good environment in like year or two are most common. Some excellent designs with Teapos (mine ABit ST6R) make 5 years. But that is still far from what they should last.
    Hence they are bad caps.

    Some bad caps fail and leak even w/o actually being used. These are even inferior brands of bad caps and caps like GSC, G-Luxon and Fuhjyyu are among them. From the better side of bad caps are OST, Teapo and few others.

    Yet still they are bad caps and ANY hardware that use them (especially PSUs!) will fail and in the process, will make YOUR mainboard fail. Overclocking and folding accelerate the process, but it is inevitable.

    Furthermore, they did not "corrode" at all. What is happening is, that cap is made full of electrolyte. This is water with additives. Good additives prevent the water from breakdown to Oxygen and Hydrogen when current is being drawn. Bad ones - cheapo ones - did not prevent it much, so inside the cap is building a pressure. Hence bad caps start bulging and eventually it end up in explosion, because Hydrogen and Oxygen mix is extremely explosive.
    Check out what happen to Space Shuttle Challenger. Yea, that was it.
    Some caps just dry out, some explode at the end. Teapos usually dry out (no leaking, bulging!) and G-Luxons usually explode. That is why there are these vents for - so the force of the explosion is low and directed directly up, not damaging PCB.
    Once cap explode near your face and you lose your hearing for a while, you will know that caps can be very dangerous things and it is not wise to confuse corrosion and explosion ;)



    Asia-X caps in OCZ PSU:
    [​IMG]
    User spyder from BadCaps forum.
    imperialreign says thanks.
  11. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    very informative! :toast:
  12. Easy Rhino

    Easy Rhino Linux Advocate

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    oh my, i cant believe ive never seen this thread before. im going to have nightmares now :eek:
  13. trodas

    trodas

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    Sacon FZ caps on Magic-pro - it is a JetWay OEM
    [​IMG]

    Don't let them fool you. They are NOT polymers, these are sleevless electrolyte caps, and a bad ones, I might add. JetWay do this all the time. Remember their mobos full of GSC crap-caps?
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
  14. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    i have a jetway mobo it has a lifetime war so who cares what caps it has :roll:


    BTW jetway=machspeed
  15. tigger

    tigger I'm the only one

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    I think the manufacturers know about this,and know its inevitable.Thats why i think they put the lines on the top of em,so they can split/vent instead of exploding.
  16. Nitro-Max

    Nitro-Max New Member

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    Ye grings but look at the oc he had 4.5GHz and 1.65V core on a E6700 he was pushing it too far under normal operation or sensible overclocking it probably wouldnt have happend and after the repair job he did quietly with his tail between his legs in shame toned it down to a respectable 3.8ghz and 1.330v running 4.5ghz 1.65v core was just sheer abuse even the best caps can only take so much i bet he ran it 24/7 at that too.And the fact that it blew right near the atx power feed id say the overclock was drawing alot of wattage and it heated up. i think its still safe to say that solid state caps are the best way to go for life expectancy i mean some of these guys that thought ill save a few bucks by buying a cheap mobo only to see it go up in flames and loose most of the other parts too they didnt really save nothing in the end it was an expensive move.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2008
  17. Nitro-Max

    Nitro-Max New Member

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    When it comes to overclocking you have to remember you are running things outside the recomended factory settings even mobos with overclocking capabilitys dont come with any guarentees its always do so at your own risk.
  18. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    +1

    It's the most underrated #1 rule of OCing - do so at your own risk.

    But, this is also where the difference between cheap, low-end boards and quality, high-end boards comes into play. Certain brands can withstand the abuse far much better than others, but everything has a limit, though.
  19. trodas

    trodas

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    cdawall - blah, blah, blah. For example my JetWay V600DAP use as ram cache a chip, that is made for KT266/333 chipsets and has a 166Mhz limit. JetWay proudly say this mobo is 200Mhz FSB capable and even offer in bios FSB setting up to 252Mhz.
    Overclocking components, lying to customers and cheating customers on caps you call "jetway=machspeed"? :wtf:


    tigger69 - yes, these caps have vents for these reasons. When they fail (even vents performing can be made cheapo!) the explosion is dramatic. Remember this pic from Random Murderer...?
    [​IMG]
    Now you know what I mean.
    And I disagree with you. It is not inevitable. Good caps never do this, unless they are overstressed by bad caps in PSU (usual case) or unless they are not overpolarized. Or overheated over 105°C ...


    Nitro-Max -
    And his is your explaination what happend?
    What if I offer you a better one? The OCZ PSU is well-known to have crappy Teapo bad caps inside. If you stress it, it generate excessive (and I mean excessive!) ripple that will blow ANY cap.
    Another explaination possible is, that the cheapo Asus mobo has underrated caps - I mean, come on! There are even empty sockets for Vcore imput caps - this is unforgivable! The quality Os-cons are only 560uF at the end of Vcore - even I get my hands on 820uF Os-cons with the same size and IIRC 1000uF versions are made as well of the SEPC Os-cons. Why not use them?!
    And input cap just a 270uF? You gotta be kidding me. Any cap will blew up there. The capacity is laughably low. Especially for overclocking. This is a bad joke. Total imput Vcore capacity had a GREAT impact on resulting Vcore stability and I usualy go for 3x 3300uF or 4x 3300uF caps when intend to hit 3Ghz with AXP. I know that there are more that just one cap, but still, what is the total? And what CPU are we talking about? :)
    And final possible explaination - the Fujitsu cap that blew-up could be fake one.
    And ever if it is not a fake one, then the higher voltage polymers technology (yes, 16V is a problem to made in polymers!) are new and Taiwan-made and I did not exactly and fully trust i yet. And even if it is trustworthy (I still have my doubts, Japs did not made it and they started with polymers abou 40 years ago, so, it maybe are just patched with hot needle stuff...), it is absolutely stupid to use polymers in the Vcore imput. Polymers shine in hi-frequency regulation. If you use then on low frequency, you get worser results that from average elyte cap. And in PSU regulation, we talk about low frequency, suitable for elytes. So a bunch of Samxon GC/GA or Rubycon MCZ or Nicicon HZ caps would do wonders here, while the polymers are there entierly wrongly.
    Of course, it allow to marketing the mobo as "all solid caps only" BS. It is true then, but they are never optimal. They are suboptimal at best, more likely mediocre.
    Stupid move.
    If you want more reading on the subject, you should take the words of specialist, a old Australia guy Davmax:
    http://capsmod.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=93&extra=page=1
    ;)

    That depends on usage, if they are geniune and if they are NOT connected to bad caps in PSU. No easy answers and generalization works there. It is not like "Either are with us, or you are with the terrorists. -G.W.Bush". It is simply not black and white.
    It depends. And in this case, it is bad caps in psu and dumb and overcheap mobo design. Before overclocking it should be recapped completely.

    Who says that "I'm not that rich to buy cheap stuff." anyway? :D

    Indeed. What most people do NOT realize that some settings ARE in bios, but are NOT intended to use :D Why they are in bios? Just to make the mobo looks cool and overclockable. Just like the JetWay V600DAP with 166Mhz ram cache chip and 252Mhz in bios that the board never ever could manage, not even if I supply a direct 3,3V to the ram cache chip and cool it's core directly with lixuid oxygen :laugh:


    imperialreign -
    I would add that overclocking on underrated PSU ( he use just 520W PSU!!! ) that has known bad caps is a pretty dumb move.



    Dell Precision 450 with Nichicon caps, user markp, OC AU forums.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
  20. Laurijan New Member

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    I hate bad caps - one guy even sold me a bad cap pc when i had no experience with PCs. Several time i was able to repair problem caps and safe the motherboard this way.
  21. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    they are the same mobos i have checked the only difference is a different manuf plant but they are identical boards. ie machspeed is manuf in the USA and jetway well jetway is not :p

    here jetway version of my mobo

    [​IMG]

    machspeed version of my mobo

    [​IMG]

    see any differences?

    heres another board jetway 939GT4-STD-G

    [​IMG]

    vs the machspeed version

    [​IMG]

    again i say they are the same boards!
  22. trodas

    trodas

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    cdawall - ah, that! You are saying that JetWay another OEM name is also Machspeed :D I was under impression that you are suggesting us that JetWay mobos run as fast, as speed of the Mach :D And I strongly disagree with that! :laugh:
    Another OEM name for JetWay is Magic-pro ;) It is same in the bad caps. Bad caps pop out in different names, yet it is all the same old crap there, see there:
    http://capsmod.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=109&extra=page=1
    GSC = Evercon = SACON = Capsun

    As for the mainboard, the first duo is almost exactly the same, true, but there are differences in caps and mosfets near PSU connector and the Vcore mosfets soldering points do differ as well. But I do agree that these are minor differences and the boards are very likely from one maker, just different revisions for different components. Slightly.
    2-phase voltage regulator is laughable crap. That could be enough for like a Pentium II mainboards, but never for todays CPUs. I wonder how long it took, before you have to RMA it.

    The second duo of mainboards are also almost same - except the last Vcore cap being polymer and there are option to close and not use the additional PSU pins - they are same. So I would quess that you are right. At lest the second mobo use 3 phase Vcore, but still... This is suitable for AXP, but not for AMD64 - much less dualcore...



    China made capacitor - and beware, this is not shopped!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
  23. Laurijan New Member

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    You could put that china cap picture in the crazy picture thread
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  24. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    thats crazy and has to be illegal.
    trodas says thanks.
  25. Grings

    Grings New Member

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    at least its a rubycon (unless that itself is fake too):)

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