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how did i do?

Discussion in 'System Builder's Advice' started by ap4lifetn, Jan 29, 2011.

  1. ap4lifetn New Member

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    Last week i saw a local sale on craigslist for some computer parts, i thought it was a really good deal so i decided to pick it up...it included a phenom 9950, m3a32-mvp deluxe, and 4gb of ddr2-1066 for $125

    i thought to myself, hey why not, i could always use another backup computer

    i did have a spare 500gb hd, 8800gt, all i really needed was a psu, case, and optical drive

    i ordered a raidmax iceberg (i know what your thinking, but its an ALL aluminum case for only 69.99, plus TPU's review of it was pretty good), and an antec EA500-D for 49.99

    total cost of building the computer comes to approximately $285(maybe $30 more if i decide to get a better cooler) for me after shipping and tax

    I decided to check out Microcenter's website today after a long absence (i have one local towards me), and saw that they were giving away motherboards, or have them at a steep discount, when you buy an AMD processor, and then didn't feel as great...good, but not great about my new computer.

    do you guys think its worth it to sell the cpu/mobo/ram combo and go for an Athlon II X4 with one of their free motherboards? Keep in mind my phenom is the 125w model. I'd like to use this computer to replace my old living room computer for basic usage, and also used it as a sort of central hub in my home network. let's assume i can sell the cpu/mobo/ram for $125 on ebay or something, i'd like to keep the cost comparable, as i didn't need the pc...its an addiction i tell ya
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  2. Blue-Tiger

    Blue-Tiger New Member

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    The 9950's are hotheads and really bad clockers. Imo you should do very good by selling that online and go for a new AMD combo.
     
  3. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    they are not bad clockers people don't know how to clock them
     
  4. Dent1

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    They are bad overclockers its a proven fact. That screen shot doesnt have 10hrs+ of prime stability test behind it.

    Regardless the Athlon II X4 will overclock better 99% of the time.
     
  5. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    they are not bad overclockers there are quite a few people running them at 3.4-3.6ghz the later steppings clocked very similar to athlon II X3's when unlocked to X4's. the 9850s and 9950s were both pretty good chips towards the end of it all
     
  6. Exeodus

    Exeodus

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    +1.

    I have had experience with two different 9850's and they both were good chips. Both would overclock to 3Ghz stable on stock voltage, and while that might not sound great, keep in mind they start at 2.5Ghz. My friend had one that ran 3.375Ghz 24/7 on only 1.38 volts. That is almost a 900Mhz oc on air :D
     
  7. Dent1

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    3GHz is where the Agena's maxed out. Guys getting 3.3GHz stable were the few lucky ones. The Phenom I's were not necessarily bad overclockers but mediocre ones at best. That 4 GHz screen shot posted above is BS because the Agena's couldnt do that "EVER" whilst being stable without liquid cooling.

    The Athlon II X4 can do 3.6GHz on stock voltage and heatsink. Defending the Phenom I overclockability is stupid, its a good CPU to have at stock, but a OC'ing monster it isnt.
     
  8. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    3ghz is not were agena maxed out hell my 9750 hit 3.1ghz on the stock cooler its not stupid to defend the overclockability because towards the EOL they were good clockers when paired with a good mobo
     
  9. brandonwh64

    brandonwh64 Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

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    I currently have a 9850BE OCed to 3ghz on stock voltage and it will also hit 3.4Ghz on 1.45V LinX stable.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  10. ap4lifetn New Member

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    i really don't care about its overclockability, i do however would prefer it to be power efficient and cool.

    i have heard that the original phenoms were much more power efficient at idle, because it allowed the cores to run at different frequencies, but vista mismanaged the cores and used the slower cores to do certain things, which is why it seemed very sluggish.. i dont know if windows 7 fixed this issue or not

    this issue was apparently "fixed" in the phenom ii's
     
  11. brandonwh64

    brandonwh64 Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

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    Hmm this i wouldnt know about, i have mine running XP ATM
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  12. ap4lifetn New Member

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    here is where i got the core power information from
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2702/6

    and here is where i read that the idle power is significantly lower
    http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-x4-9950-be-processor-tested/10

    but i am a little unsure if this can beat the 45nm athlon's, it will probably only be used for web browsing, maybe a few movies, and slight if any gaming on a 1400x900 monitor, so the extra power gained from overclocking isn't really "necessary".

    i realize that there are much more power efficient processors on the market, but for the price i thought i did pretty well getting a fairly fast system
     
  13. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    for the price you did good its still not a bad chip
     
  14. ap4lifetn New Member

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    i think its still a good chip also, clock for clock they are not much different from the athlons, but i figure they'd be almost the same because of the higher speed on the athlons and the l3 cache on the phenoms, although they're quite low

    so with performance almost out of the question, it comes down to power consumption and temperature, and this is where im hoping those users with these processors can chime in a little.
     
  15. Dent1

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    I was an entire 100mhz off! I lost the argument.

    Yeah, the Agena's could get 3.3GHz, maybe slightly more but it was the exception. 3.3GHz region was definitely in the upper-limits of the architecture even on high end cooling. 4GHz stable is impossible outside liquid or nitrogen which is what im disputing and even then liquid I would be shocked if it was stable.

    Reading back on the old reviews, you rarely ever say reviews boasting OC's above 3.6GHz. Whereas on the Phenom IIs and Athlon IIs that is considered a normal OC even on the most basic motherboards.



    Clock for clock the Phenom I would be slower, the newer architecture of the Propus and Deneb would mean more instructions per cycle could be carried out even with less L3. Granted the difference in real world applications might not be so apparently, but as you said the low power consumption, temp and overclockability/unlockability makes the Athlon II X4 the better purchase hands down.


    Edit:

    Yes, the die shrink and cache was the main change. But it still doesnt take away from the fact that the Agena's instruction per clock is lower.

    Ebay is a good start. Keep us updated :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  16. ap4lifetn New Member

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    the architecture is the same, maybe theres a few improvements here and there, but its still k10 with a die shrink and triple the cache

    that being said, guess ill start listing on ebay
     
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  17. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    what on earth are you talking about IPC is the SAME 3 iterations per clock on ALL K8 and later chips. also you have changed what 3 times now first agena could not overclock then it could not overclock past 3ghz now its 3.3ghz. you do not know some facts stop filling this poor guys head full of nonsense. Agena and Propus cored chips perform similarly yes a good propus core will clock higher been there done that got the tshirt. however the chip he could get around the same price as his Agena would be a Rana based athlon X3 which if and thats a big IF it unlocks to be a proper quad core they are very well known to only overclock to 3.4-3.6ghz which is around were a good Agena chip will stop clocking. the main change going from K10 to K10.5 was a die shrink and cache change IPC was not changed there was some minor changes done with the process as was released almost 2 years ago in AMD's press releases. If you are going to go about gallivanting telling people they are wrong and you are right please look up the facts and actual be correct in your posts.
     
  18. Exeodus

    Exeodus

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    I just want to know if Dent1 has ever even owned a Phenom I? If not then he has no reason to give any input about it's overclock ability without first hand knowledge. So far three people in this thread that have had or still own a Phenom I have each verified they are good clockers, and only one person is disputing the fact.
     
  19. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    nah bro he has that athlon II X4 that out clocks it by so much look at his sys specs it clocked so much higher than the 9X50BE chips did at 3.5ghz
     
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  20. Dent1

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    Bad overclocker in comparison to the Athlon II X4. And yes I've owned most AMD CPUs in the last decade :)



    Actually I said the "They are bad overclockers its a proven fact". I never said it could not overclock, you made that part up :) I said it is a "bad overclocker". Just because something is bad at something it doesnt mean it doesnt have limited OC'ing capability.

    Also I said that the "Agena's maxed out at 3.0GHz", obviously overclocking results are a variable so that number is not set in concrete. I'm aware that overclocks above 3.0GHz was possible and happened but it wasnt always the norm on the average motherboard.


    If you bothered to read what I said, I said "Yeah, the Agena's could get 3.3GHz, maybe slightly more but it was the exception". Again, not the norm.

    Exception means possible but not normal or typical behaviour. i.e. one could get overclocks in the 3.3GHz region but it wasnt normal.


    The Agena's have 2MB of L3, whilst the Propus is missing L3, explain why the Agena's are slower on reviews if the IPC wasnt improved?

    Regardless, the Athlon II X4 is the better choice, the OP knows this hence why his Agena is on Ebay. So this thread is over.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  21. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    i would hazard to bet that i have owned dozens more than you. ask anyone here if i know how to overclock a phenom I or phenom II hell my old kuma (dual core agena) did 3573mhz stable

    [​IMG]

    thats not luck thats not a hand picked chip that is chip number 2 from newegg because i popped the first one at 3.6ghz


    proven by who you? i know at least 10 members on this forum with a standard 780GX/FX board posting numbers way higher hell my own 780G board broke 2.8ghz with an old ass 9500

    i guess the 60+ people on hwbot got mystically magical chips from i am not really a phenom land cause every single one of them hit over 3.3ghz using just 9950s. if they are such terrible overclockers why were a TON of them out clocking the phenom II 940s? why do alot of them outclock the athlon X3 rana chips? yes some chips outclock others that is how these things work however a good agena will clock as good as a normal Rana or propus cored athlon

    IPC was not changed it is 3 iterations per clock minor modifications were made to the instructions this info is easily available in the old AMD press releases if you care to look and stop spouting off at the hip

    thats not up to you why not the moderators do there job if they think this thread is an issue they will close it
     
  22. Dent1

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    Its easy to post images. That image does not tell me that the CPU is stable. For all I know it could of crashed 10mins after that screenshot was taken.

    Although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as you could be the exception.



    2 chips out of the tens of hundred manfuactured? Small sample.

    Either way congratulations if the Phenom I clocked 3.6GHz, quite an achievement. Did you ever reach anything higher? (because that is a mediocre run of the mill OC to the Athlon II X4s? wouldnt you agree)


    I believe that. I'm just saying and its a respectable overclock, but the compared to the Athlon II X4s that is a pathetic OC.


    Interesting


    You just proved my point. I never said that the Agena's couldnt overclock, on the quite the opposite. I was making a reference to them being bad overclockers, in the context of being in comparison to the Propus or Denebs. I'm sure you did reach 3.6GHz (prime stable heh) but you are boasting about a max overclock which is the Athlon II X4 minimum OC is nothing to write home about.
     
  23. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    60 that are on hwbot. that doesn't include the tons of people on other sites and other people as a whole who clocked higher. go and compare the C2 athlon X4's they did not clock as high as the current C3 chips and were a lot more comparable to the old phenoms. same as the clock difference between the B1 and B3 chips.
     
  24. Dent1

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    The guys that post on hwbot are extreme enthusiasts, the extremes those geeks get are not in proportion to the people with moderate OC experience. A lot of the time the guys @ hwbot do suicide screenshots.

    Lets be honest, going by the professional reviews sites like Anandtech and Tomshardware etc in general the Agenas on typical OC were not great. It was the OC'ing was the area which made enthusiasts buy Intel's offerings with their E/Qxxxx because it was getting 4GHz or near 4GHz with basic FSB movement and sometimes stock or very little voltage increase.

    Nothing productive is coming from this thread. I say the Agenas can overclock averagely, you think they are great overclockers, lets leave it as the Agenas can overclock.
     
  25. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    lol i have tons of shit on hwbot. that being said it was not only cpuz i was looking at it was wprime super pi etc. no they are not the end all of overclocking chips. however they are not piles of shit either. a good 9950 will hit 3.5ghz no issues same with some of the 7750 or 7850BE chips
     

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