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How to avoid screen stuttering ???

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by jonathan1107, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. xBruce88x

    xBruce88x

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    well if you can do all the transcoding without memory trouble then i guess you're fine. try the new update you mentioned and see if that helps (remove the old profiles).

    also force Triple Buffering ON... found this on an old forum somewhere

    "The benefit of vsync quite simply no tearing and vsync will always do that regardless of framerate, so being able to keep up with your refresh isn't an issue on it's own. On the other hand, Being limited to two framebuffers becomes an issue with vsync as the videocard is often left waiting for the monitor to finish it's current refresh. So, taking your 100hz example, if the videocard cannot keep up with 100hz it must work at some fraction of that; be it 50fps, 33.3fps, 25fps or so on. Triple buffering solves that issue by providing space for the videocard to continue drawing to instead of sitting ilde until the buffer flip comes with a new refresh"

    old but vsync and triple buffering hasn't changed... http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=14217

    but yea most likely its that CAP5 or w/e. I think a combination of the new patch with the old profiles removed, and forcing Triple Buffering ON should help.
     
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  2. BazookaJoe

    BazookaJoe

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    Why on earth CANT I?

    I have used the systems and worked on them and seen them fail, why on earth cant I comment on something I have worked on, and personally experienced simply because it did not belong to me?

    Do you honestly believe everyone who has ever done a review on ANYTHING has first purchased the object in question?
     
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  3. xBruce88x

    xBruce88x

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    Law-II probably assumed you were going by word of mouth from you're friend.

    I've heard of compatibility issues with multi GPU setups before, but these profile updates and patches, etc, are *supposed to* fix that.

    oh while I'm at it... vsync doesn't cap it to 60fps... it syncs the frame rate with the refresh rate of the monitor. but since most LCDs for a long time could only to 60hz, your statement is close. just thought i'd clarify that.
     
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  4. BazookaJoe

    BazookaJoe

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    BUT have you actually TESTED at a very low res ?

    I'm not saying I believe that this IS the problem - I'm just saying that testing is free & easy, and simply assuming that this is not the problem does not actually prove that it is not.

    Simply ASSUMING that they can do anything "Just Because" may seem reasonable on paper - but unless you actually test a theory and prove/disprove it - you really have no idea.

    Don't feel that I'm treading on your EGO and insulting your hardware - I'm not, I only have a single 5850 so you are leagues ahead of me.

    What I'm saying is that experience has taught me that very often the most illusive solutions are usually hiding in places SO OBVIOUS that we have not thought to look there.

    Again, its just a thought.
     
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  5. BazookaJoe

    BazookaJoe

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    YES... which is typically 60Hz on a common monitor of today.

    Which results in your FPS being capped to 60...

    See my original post : "Generally speaking a Vsync lock will cap yer FPS at ~60" where by use of the term "Generally speaking" and the indication of approximation "~" I attempted to discuss the effects of a constrained frame rate without going into excessive discussion on the technical nature of HOW that rate was constrained, as I felt that would result in wasted typing that was not even relevant to the topic of discussion, which was in fact how a deviation from a FIXED rate is far more noticeable than an occasional dip in an already fluctuating rate, the exact technical nature of the restraint being in fact irrelevant as the same theory would apply to ANY upper frame rate limit, regardless of how it was caused.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
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  6. Law-II

    Law-II

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    Hi

    my apologise, I have interpreted your original post the wrong way; I will try to engage my brain before posting again on TPU

    nb: it is never my intention to put anyones nose out of joint

    atb

    Law-II
     
  7. xBruce88x

    xBruce88x

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    i agreed with you... check the 2nd half of the sentince you left off when you quoted, I just wanted to clarify the difference so that if someone saw that they wouldn't turn off vsync just to get more than 60fps on a 100hz monitor, etc.

    anyway OP, let us know the results of the new patch, etc.
     
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  8. Law-II

    Law-II

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    Hi

    not sure if I am helping or hindering

    if you have a copy of Dirt-2, fire it up go to the benchmark and force v-sync, I am fairly confident that you will not be able to hold 60hz and that it will drop in 59hz this is a windows 64-Bit bug dose the same with FarCry 2 when in benchmark mode, frames fluctuate between 60Hz and 59Hz, frames do not lock (this is with a Single HD5970 v-sync enables / it also did this when I was using HD5970's in crossfire) never did this untill I went over to Vista / Windows 7

    nb: I try not to make statements as nothing in computing is certain, you will find me someware between 0 & 1; hope this helps

    atb

    Law-II
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
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  9. BazookaJoe

    BazookaJoe

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    Law-II ::toast:
     
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  10. jonathan1107

    jonathan1107

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    he's prob referring to RAM instabillity... whatsoever, I'd like to know if anyone here has tried the witcher 2 with the new 11.6 drivers and CAP5?
     
  11. BazookaJoe

    BazookaJoe

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    :toast:

    You are of course right there - the only reason I bring it up is I had many people complain back when (for example) Battlefield 1942 players began upgrading that the games seemed spikey, or jerky or stuttery, and the problem there was also the trend to Software Cap the frame rate to 75FPS or whatever and on older cards that only averaged 55~ 65FPS people where fine and everything seemed great - but when they got newer , faster cards that would have averaged 120fps+ it just sat at the upper frame cap of for example 90 FPS - perfectly smooth, and when there WAS enough smoke and explosions that caused enough alpha load to drop the FPS to about 80 it was very sudden and unpleasant to the user - who used to be perfectly happy at 55~65 fluctuating FPS before, but now complained of stutter at 80FPS, when 65 used to be acceptable :)
     
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  12. jonathan1107

    jonathan1107

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    Well, in my case you guys need to know that I ran a solid 60 FPS with the max settings in the witcher 2 both with the CAP5 and my previous CAP4...

    Within those same circumstances, I didn't notice the screen stuttering when I had CAP4 (with the light source bug and all) and with the CAP5 I now notice a very appearant stutter in certain areas in the game...

    And it is the exact same stutter I was experiencing in MW2 ... It only happens when I combine the following: Camera movement @ the same time then Character movement...

    But I'm almost 99% certain this is due to drivers... I'm almost done testing my stuff, will get back to U guys with news of my results
     
  13. jonathan1107

    jonathan1107

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    One more question:

    What are the differences between playing on a 60hz monitor and 120hz monitor (aside from being able to play 3D) ???

    Would you need your cards to run @ 120FPS to get the same feeling as 60FPS on a 60hz monitor???

    How does V-Sync perform on 120hz monitors? Do people even turn that on? I hear 120hz monitor have better movement fluidity... is that true?...

    Basically, can someone give me a full detailed resume of why I should switch to a 120hz monitor and why I should not???
     
  14. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    this ^ lol <3
     
  15. BazookaJoe

    BazookaJoe

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    Technically it IS true.

    60Hz, or 120Hz basically tells you how many times per second your monitor draws a new image.

    So a 60Hz monitor literally updates its screen 60 times per second - and a 120Hz 3D monitor (to be able to draw both the LEFT and RIGHT image to the screen at the same number of frames per second) Re draws it's screen 120 times per second in 3D mode, 1 left, then 1 right and so on.

    IF your 3D monitor supports 120Hz in 2D mode, it will continue to redraw the screen 120 times per second and will basically cause you to have 120FPS if locked to Vsync.

    More frames per second = smoother GFX for sure.

    But I have heard people saying that *SOME* monitors step back down to 60Hz when in 2D mode. This i cannot say for sure, but assuming the monitor operates in 120Hz all the time it will definitely result in more fluid gfx even in 2D mode.

    Just remember your GFX card setup needs to perform 2X as fast ALL the time now for that gfx to stay smooth - but assuming it can, and assuming the monitor also runs at a full 120Hz in 2D mode, 120HZ screen will look far smoother.
     
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  16. jonathan1107

    jonathan1107

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    Thank you, that's exactly what I was wanting to know....

    Although it sounds pretty impossible to have a decent gaming experience on a 120hz monitor (according to what you said)... because In order to have the full 120hz experience, I'd have to be able to generate around 110 FPS all the time... which is not the case most of the time...

    Even in less demanding games like say Modern Warfare 2... I would get 120 FPS sometimes, but I'm pretty sure I would see that number drop to 90 when there's intense action ... In other words: I wonder what it looks and feels like on a 120hz monitor when you have FPS drops...

    And I also wonder what type of solution is employed if you're playing a very demanding game like Crysis on that 120hz monitor... and the max you get is say 70FPS (which would be amazing considering how demanding crysis is...)

    Also, would there be any difference in the image quality between a 60hz and a 120hz monitor when having a solid 60FPS in both cases ???

    And lastly, has anyone here ever gamed on a 120hz monitor? What was it like (apart from the 3D possibilities)
     
  17. Flibolito

    Flibolito

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    I'd like to know as well. In BC2 I stay over 90 fps most of the time and thought about getting a 120Hz TV/Monitor and just run without V-sync. Alot more work for the GPU but I would like some 120Hz feedback on how it feels to be at 90ish on 120.
     
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  18. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    If you can get a 120Hz monitor do so, without hesitation. Running it at 120Hz all the time benefits games and the Windows desktop. I'm speaking from experience here.

    Animation rendered at 120Hz without frame drops does indeed feel smoother. It should do, as it's got twice the temporal resolution. You can also shoot more accurately, too.

    Even if a few frames do drop it's much less noticeable off a 120Hz base rate than a 60Hz one.

    You can't have a solid 60fps when vsyncing at 120Hz. It will freewheel (ie frame drop) all the way up to 120fps, at which point it will lock and give you smooth animation.

    Also, it reduces the significant inherent motion blur and ghosting present in all LCD monitors, but it's still pretty bad.

    Note that if you use nvidia's 3D Vision, then you get an extra special bonus: elimination of motion blur, just like on a CRT - totally smooth movement at all times! :cool: Note that I'm not including frame drops here. The system must be able to maintain that 120Hz animation frame rate (60Hz per eye with 3D Vision).

    Couple that with the pixel-perfect sharpness of LCD and the effect is truly awesome! :rockout: Again, I speak from experience.

    How better on the Windows desktop? Again, by reducing motion blur and ghosting while scrolling and moving windows around the desktop.

    If I could get a 120Hz monitor with 1920x1200 resolution, I'd do it immediately, regardless of price.

    It's not a matter of running at the highest freewheeling frame rate that your system can manage. It's about locking the framerate to vsync and having the system not drop any frames, whatever refresh rate your monitor is running at. Anything else results in ugly animation judder and other unwanted artefacts.
     
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  19. OneMoar

    OneMoar

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    good read
    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928593
    tl:dr^
    If you're playing a game that has a framerate that routinely stays above your refresh rate, then VSync will generally be a good thing. However if it's a game that moves above and below it, then VSync can become annoying. Even worse, if the game plays at an FPS that is just below the refresh rate (say you get 65FPS most of the time on a refresh rate of 75Hz), the video card will have to settle for putting out much less FPS than it could (37.5FPS in that instance). This second example is where the percieved drop in performance comes in. It looks like VSync just killed your framerate. It did, technically, but it isn't because it's a graphically intensive operation. It's simply the way it works.

    All hope is not lost however. There is a technique called triple-buffering that solves this VSync problem. Lets go back to our 50FPS, 75Hz example. Frame 1 is in the frame buffer, and 2/3 of frame 2 are drawn in the back buffer. The refresh happens and frame 1 is grabbed for the first time. The last third of frame 2 are drawn in the back buffer, and the first third of frame 3 is drawn in the second back buffer (hence the term triple-buffering). The refresh happens, frame 1 is grabbed for the second time, and frame 2 is copied into the frame buffer and the first part of frame 3 into the back buffer. The last 2/3 of frame 3 are drawn in the back buffer, the refresh happens, frame 2 is grabbed for the first time, and frame 3 is copied to the frame buffer. The process starts over. This time we still got 2 frames, but in only 3 refresh cycles. That's 2/3 of the refresh rate, which is 50FPS, exactly what we would have gotten without it. Triple-buffering essentially gives the video card someplace to keep doing work while it waits to transfer the back buffer to the frame buffer, so it doesn't have to waste time. Unfortunately, triple-buffering isn't available in every game, and in fact it isn't too common. It also can cost a little performance to utilize, as it requires extra VRAM for the buffers, and time spent copying all of them around. However, triple-buffered VSync really is the key to the best experience as you eliminate tearing without the downsides of normal VSync (unless you consider the fact that your FPS is capped a downside... which is silly because you can't see an FPS higher than your refresh anyway).
     
  20. Flibolito

    Flibolito

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    Cool I have been pretty happy @ 60Hz and having it pined there seems a good way to go. I don't notice any input lag, the only lag there is is sometime from the internet/servers, offline games are very smooth all the time. So I gues staying with 60Hz is actually better since it's locked there and 90ish on a 120hz would actually feel less fluid.
     
  21. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Yes, exactly.

    Looking at your system specs, I find the graphics cards interesting. Your entry for the video card shows: "EVGA GTX 480 Hydro Copper / EVGA GTX 580 Superclocked". Does this mean that the water cooled 480 is overclocked and actually faster than a stock 580?
     
  22. xBruce88x

    xBruce88x

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    are you able to get 90fps constantly on 120hz? if so try 75hz or 85hz.
     
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  23. f22a4bandit

    f22a4bandit

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    Actually, I think that's two separate systems on his specs sheet.

    OP: Any luck with the new 11.6?
     
  24. Flibolito

    Flibolito

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    Yes the overclocked 480 is MUCH faster than a stock 580 I have to run the 580 @ 912MHz to = the 480 @972MHz. At those clock speeds in benchmarks that only hit the gpu hard not the cpu they run identical, the only difference is the i7 does better in some games and the 480 runs less than 45C under long extreme load. In stone giant demo they run within 1 fps of each other.
     
  25. Flibolito

    Flibolito

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    It's usually about 100 in bad company 2 in campaign and multiplayer. I dips into the high 80s sometimes on one of the snow maps when alot of shit is happening. Now this is @60Hz just with fraps on and V-Sync off. Tears like a mofo once its over 100fps tho so I only use it for stress testing and showing of to friends that come over. 32XAA Looks awesome
     

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