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I'm looking for a new 22" monitor. And am clueless... :(

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Black Panther, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    I'm looking for a new 22" LCD or TFT monitor to go with the pc in my system specs (graphics card 8800GT).

    Apologies for the fact that I know near zilch about monitors... :eek:

    Also, I don't think I'd really be wanting a monitor greater than 22". The current 19" I have is quite satisfactory, and I'd be preferring having better fps on a smaller monitor rather than having my gfx card have more pixels to render and slow down significantly. Plus there's the budget issue as well. I'd be preferring to buy a really good 22" rather than some mediocre larger monitor.

    Does it make a difference whether it says LCD or TFT? Is one a better quality than the other?

    For me these are the things that are important:

    1) Good pixels, and good after-sales service

    2) Having a dvi connection to connect to my 8800GT (vga, scarts, etc etc are not necessary)

    3) Should I choose wide-screen or square? I'm currently using a square 19" olidata... it appears that square monitors are being phased out? Would my games be looking good on a wide-screen monitor? I know Oblivion gives the resolution choice, and Crysis...

    4) I wouldn't be using the monitor's speakers at all. So I'd rather spend the same amount on a monitor without speakers and get a better quality one.

    5) I don't understand the hype about viewing angle. While gaming my head faces the monitor at all times, if I'm really gaming intensively and get immersed and lost in the game I might be moving my head some 5 degrees or so but I wouldn't be needing to get a good view from 170 degrees... Lol so I wouldn't really be caring whether I get a 170 degree view capability or a 150 degree one. Unless what I'm saying is stupid...

    6) What I want is a bright crisp clear image, beautiful colours, with no ghosting, and minimal black dots (dead pixels). I'd hence take that as meaning that a 2ms response time monitor would be better than a 6ms response time one?

    7) Is there any advantage of getting one of the more modern ones with the glossy screen? My dad's got a laptop with a glossy screen - he even paid extra for it way back then - but I don't like how it shows all reflections. I wouldn't want to have to see a mirror image of my room window on my monitor while gaming... Do glossy screens have any advantage to outweigh the disadvantage of mirroring the inside of your room?

    8) I have got advice that: anything under 6ms generally means the monitor is "TN Film." TN film is standard amongst LCD screens these days. It's not 'junk' but it's not the best quality. When buying a monitor you want to find ones that are "PVA-panels." However, what is the advantage of PVA panel monitors? How can I recognise them? I've been touring some shops, locally and online, and they don't mention if the panels are PVA or TN film. Apparently if the viewing angle is higher than 176/176 then it'd be a PVA panel. But as I said before, viewing angle isn't that important for me.
    This also conflicts with my 6th preference above. Does this mean that for a monitor to be good its response time must be greater than 6ms?

    9) Many online shops / local shops here do not specify whether the response time is grey to grey or the other thing... (white to black?). How can I get to know which one they're referring to? (Lol no I don't trust sales reps...)

    10) What contrast ratio would you be recommending for good gaming? Can one see a visual difference if one is gaming on a 1000:1 contrast ratio or a 3000:1 contrast ratio? For example, the first link I quote below says Contrast Ratio: DC 3000:1 (1000:1). What does that mean? Which one is it? Is it one or the other or are they just playing with words like they do with the ms response thing and quote grey to grey and whatnot?

    11) What brightness would you recommend for good gaming? How does that specification affect the picture I'd see on the monitor? The ones I looked at all have the brightness of 300 cd/m2. Is that good?

    12) What'd be a reputable brand you'd recommend?
    I was giving preference to Samsung, but I'd appreciate your views...

    Lastly, I'd be much preferring to purchasing the LCD from a local shop here in Malta rather than from the place where I regularly buy my parts (OcUK). I haven't any complaints whatsoever against OcUK, but purchasing locally it's more comfortable, I know what I'm getting (OcUK say that I might get a different panel!!!) and in the case of rma it's definitely less hassle.

    This is what I had my eyes upon:

    Local shops (preferable) :
    http://www.razercomputers.com/index.php?p=prod_det.php&cat_code=TFT&prod_code=223BW
    http://scanmalta.com/item.php?WebCategory=monitor&ProductCode=TFT-L18603

    OcUK:
    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?&groupid=703&catid=17&subid=949&sortby=priceDesc

    Thank you from bearing to read all of this.
    I'd be appreciating ANY reply, certainly not expecting someone to answer all my questions. All feedback is welcome, and thanks once again. :)

    I really want to spend my money on a good monitor this time. I'll definitely be preferring to spend more and get the best, as long as I can enjoy what they offer, because as I said there is plenty stuff out there with other connections than dvi, with speakers, with other stuff which I will not be using.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2008
  2. oli_ramsay

    oli_ramsay

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    I dunno if these guys deliver to Malta, but it's an awesome monitor for the price. I got one about 4 months ago and haven't looked back.

    http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(17293)LG-22-TFT-LCD-Monitor-L226WTQ-Widescreen.aspx

    Ultrafast 2 ms response time
    3000:1 contrast ratio; 300 cd/m² brightness
    1680 x 1050 maximum resolution; 160° horizontal and vertical viewing angles.
    DVI-D with HDCP and D-sub inputs and outputs
    f-ENGINE technology independently enhances the brightness and color for a stunning visual experience
    Intelligent auto resolution
    EZ-Zooming hot key
    ENERGY STAR compliance assures a high standard of energy efficiency.

    Good price too! was £200 when I got it. No dead pixels either :p
     
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  3. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    That's exactly the same monitor I have in my second link in my first post! :) Thanks for the recommendation... I'll be looking into it.

    Though the price to buy it from Scan Malta it will cost me the equivalent of 240 sterling...
     
  4. xubidoo New Member

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    Black Panther says thanks.
  5. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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  6. kenkickr

    kenkickr

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  7. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    Hmmm, that's already the 2nd recommendation I got for the Samsung 2232BW. Guess that means something.

    I now am just hoping that I can find it at my local Soundmachine shop, the Samsung importer for my country...

    Here's the specs from OcUK:

    Take the time to appreciate the style and precision of these inspirational monitors from Samsung. Their award winning design will redefine how you view entertainment, bringing a fine balance of fashion, fun, and function to your enjoyment. Their wide screens, perfectly framed in a timeless glossy black bezel will add fresh new depth to movies, games, and all multi-media experiences. With Samsung 2032BW(GW)/2232BW(GW)/932MW(MG)/2032MW(MG), it's not hard to imagine. Welcome to a world of width in which pictures are displayed with rich clarity and deeper resonance. Express your own unique sense of identity and beauty with the beautifully unique style and form of the 932MW/2032MW/2032BW/2232BW monitors from Samsung. Recognized at the 2007 iF Design Awards for their outstanding contemporary design, these monitors combine soft contours, clean cut lines, and a smooth surface into a premium, yet minimalist finish which gives you more space to express yourself. Enjoy creating the ultimate atmosphere for optimizing your engagement with your entertainment. The wide screen enables you to enjoy movies and games in the format that they were intended to be enjoyed. Multi-media comes to life in a burst of accentuated reality ,allowing you to see more, feel more, and enjoy more. Design innovation is born of inspiration. Allow the inspiration of our design to inspire you to reach new heights. Gentle, organic lines and curves eliminate sharp edges, bringing harmony and balance to any environment. Enjoy a sense of comfort and elegance with the smooth, bolt-less surface. Samsung is proud to introduce a revolutionary hinge mechanism that adds freedom, flexibility, and expansive expression. The iF Award winning world’s first elastomer ball hinge system rotates with a graceful, fluid motion, and offers soft, smooth monitor angle adjustment so that you can enjoy elegance and style in every detail. The most powerful images are ones that move you and inspire you to new depths of emotion. Enjoy the clearest, most vivid images that you have ever seen. Enjoy realistic motion images displayed at the highest speed, with vibrant intensity, on the clearest of screens with the Syncmaster 932MW(GW)/2032MW(GW)/2032BW(MG)/2232BW(MG) monitors from Samsung. By intuitively adjusting the backlight brightness a contrast ratio of 3000:1 is achieved. This innovative technology dynamically optimizes images, delivering deeper, richer, more vivid colors. Bright and dark images are dramatically enhanced to make your enjoyment more complete. The super fast response time (2ms) guarantees seamless viewing of motion pictures. No ghosting, no blurring, just perfect, fluid clarity. It is ideal for games, movies, multimedia or streamed media via the internet, so you can be sure that you will enjoy the highest quality images at all times. Enjoy crisp, clear images and richer, brighter colors. Enjoy perfect quality video images displayed at the highest resolution when using the DVI (Digital Visual Interface). Enjoy pure digital contents and a sense of security with HDCP (High Definition Content Protection); enjoy more security, more quality, and more entertainment.

    - Viewable Area: 22” Widescreen (1680x1050 Resolution)
    - Interface: Analog / Digital
    - Response Time: 2ms
    - 16.7M Colours
    - Contrast Ratio: 3000:1
    - Viewing Angle (H/V): 170°/ 170°
    - Brightness: 300cd/m2
    - 3 Years On-Site Warranty with Samsung


    Now if I get the item from OcUK I'd be saving USD 120. Because that same item is retail price USD 540 to buy locally.
    Huh.... another question arises... is it worth the risk? :ohwell:
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2008
  8. strick94u

    strick94u New Member

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    I just got the samsung sync master and love it. It does everything I ask and more 1680x1050 UT3 is DAMN !!! :laugh:
     
  9. keakar

    keakar

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    samsung is your best monitor out there quality wise.
    when getting a LCD monitor you want:

    1000:1 contrast - (higher is overpriced and they fudge the numbers anyway) (lower and the picture isnt as sharp) but others like LG are good as well and are cheaper but not as good.

    5ms response time - (getting lower costs a great deal more and they dont go as high quality in other areas to make it cheaper) (anything higher may show ghosting in fast movement)

    viewing angle - (higher the better) this is important to get the highest you can but its not that critical with a desktop. it determines at what angle the screen starts getting darker and looses its color focus.

    i recommend you get this one: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-056-SA&groupid=703&catid=17&subcat=949

    you save a lot of money over the same one at your local shop so its up to you where to buy it but thats the best monitor i see for the choices you have.
     
  10. keakar

    keakar

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    just a footnote: dc or dynamic contrast is not real contrast that you see when you view it, its a bench test number in a pitch black room with no other light sources. so dont be fooled by a high dc contrast number, the regular contrast number is what you will actually see and the one that matters.

    for example the samsung touts 3000:1 dc but it only has 1000:1 regular contrast this means it is in fact a 1000:1 contrast monitor but they put that dc contrast out there to make it sell better since most people just buy whatever says the highest contrast number.

    if your interested this explains the differences in regular contrast and dynamic dc contrast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_ratio
     
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  11. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    Million thanks for that, it explains the issue of "Contrast Ratio: DC 3000:1 (1000:1)."

    I'm going to go to the local Samsung dealer tomorrow, and check the price for the SM-2232BW. I was on a local forum and they told me it was Eur 420.
    From OcUK I'd get that shipped to my door for 233.75 UK sterling. I don't really know how to work out the conversion but offhand I'm seeing it's quite a bit cheaper...

    So... I'll try to haggle a bit with the local Samsung dealer and see what price he can give it to me. Then work it on from there... :ohwell:
     
  12. trog100 New Member

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  13. trog100 New Member

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    just sent em a message.. he he

    trog
     
  14. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    Yeah that happens there. Sometimes it's the opposite way though. When I ordered my 8800GT from there, during the 2 weeks I waited for it (due to 8800GT shortage) I saw the price hike up by 20 sterling. Luckily I had placed my order before the price hike...
     
  15. trog100 New Member

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    yes u are right its win some lose some.. but they do juggle their prices around far too much.. what the rational is i dont know but it aint good i am sure.. he he he

    i also know that 12 quid is neither here nor there.. but the sour taste is still there.. and will be for a while.. odd what makes us feel how we do.. he he

    trog
     
  16. xubidoo New Member

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    no its fine ,the glossy refers to the actual casing ,maybe u cant tell from the pic but the black casing/stand is very glossy ,i love it tbh as soon as i saw the pic on overclockers and read the reviews i knew i had to have 1 hehe.
    i cant say its disappointed me either.i'd buy another in a heartbeat if i needed to.
     
  17. trog100 New Member

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    just a follow up on this one.. OC/UK have given me my 12 quid back.. the sour taste has gone 10 out of 10 to em..

    i have the new monitor but aint swopped over from my other 20 inch acer yet.. will do later..

    trog
     
  18. trog100 New Member

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    got it up and running.. straight jump from acer 20 inch matt type screen to the now popular shiny 22 inch acer..

    first impressions.. it kinda jumps out at u more.. the relatively small size increase is noticable.. the extra size at the same 1680 x 1050 makes the fonts more readable..

    being a bit into photography i aint so sure being more "vivid" is "better" or not.. gonna have to look at it a bit more for final impressions.. first ones are good thow..

    one minor niggle i have it mounted on a wall bracket.. i cant seem to get the top half of the stand off like i could with my old one.. when i am sure it works i might get the hack saw to it... he he he

    trog
     
  19. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    I've been reading a lot about monitors. And heard that the LG panel being manufactured by Phillips is of better quality than the Samsung's...

    I've got a hard choice to make now, both LG Flatron. It's either this:

    LG L226WTQ

    Type : LCD
    Screen Size : 22"
    Pitch Size : 0.282 x 0.282
    Input : 1 x D-Sub ; 1 x DVI-D
    Resolution : 1680x1050
    Viewing Angle : 170/170 (°H/°V)
    Contrast Ratio : 3000:1
    Brightness : 300 cd/m²
    Response Time : 2 ms
    Power Usage (Switched on) : 45 W
    Monitor Colour : Silver/Black
    Dimensions (with stand) : 501.7 x 423.5 x 233.9mm (WxHxD)


    or this:

    LG M228WA

    Type : LCD TV
    Screen Size : 22"
    Pitch Size : 0.282 x 0.282
    Resolution : 1680x1050
    Viewing Angle : 170/170 (°H/°V)
    Contrast Ratio : 3000:1
    Brightness : 300 cd/m²
    Response Time : 5 ms
    Speakers : yes
    Power Usage (Switched on) : 50 W
    Monitor Colour : Black
    Dimensions (with stand) : 525.4x439x230 (WxHxD)


    I wouldn't have had this difficulty to decide, and would definitely have chosen the monitor rather than the TV, had not the monitor be manufactured only in SILVER frame (ugh doesn't match!)

    On the other hand, the TV is black and a nice addition is the power button which glows blue exactly like my pc...

    For a little more, I wouldn't mind having a TV rather than a monitor.

    What worries me a little is the response time, since that of the monitor is 2ms and the TV's is 5ms.

    Do you think I'd be making a good choice if I get the black TV rather than the silver monitor?

    Also what does DVI-D mean? The monitor's got DVI-D, and the TV got DVI. :confused:

    Lastly, what is your opinion of LG as a brand of monitors? Especially for gaming use? Ghosting?

    I've got an LG Flatron true flat CRT which has been on my other computer for over 7 years now and it's great, but I don't think CRT and LCD technologies can be compared...

    Thanks. :respect:
     
  20. JrRacinFan

    JrRacinFan Served 5k and counting ...

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    Hiya Panther! If you must choose between the 2 LG's, go with the top one. 2ms response time = a definite no ghosting.

    So it must be a 22" eh? I was just going to suggest the 19" I just bought Samsung Syncmaster 932BW, so far I am totally impressed. But that's only if you don't mind gaming at 1440x900.

    Oh and don't worry about "DVI-D", your video card supports it.
     
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  21. Cybrnook2002

    Cybrnook2002

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    just to throw it in here.....This is what im using and I like it.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014139

    Cheap and it had dvi vga and hdmi. tha hdmi was important to me.


    Model
    Brand BenQ
    Model FP222WH
    Cabinet Color Black
    Display
    Screen Size 22"
    Widescreen Yes
    Recommended Resolution 1680 x 1050
    Viewing Angle 170°(H) / 160°(V)
    Pixel Pitch 0.282mm
    Display Colors 16.7 Million
    Brightness 300 cd/m2
    Contrast Ratio 700:1
    Response Time 5ms
    Horizontal Refresh Rate 30KHz - 82KHz
    Vertical Refresh Rate 56Hz - 76Hz
    Display Type WSXGA+
    Connectivity
    Input Video Compatibility Analog RGB, Digital
    Connectors D-Sub, DVI-D
    D-Sub 1
    DVI 1 (HDCP)
    HDMI Yes (HDCP)
    Power
    Power Supply Built-in (90-264 AC)
    Power Consumption 49W (max)
    Convenience
    User Controls OSD language: 8
    Regulatory Approvals TCO'03
    Stand Adjustments Tilt
    Built in TV Tuner No
    Built in Speakers No
    Features Kensington Lock Support
    i key
    VESA Wall Mounting: 100x100mm
    Windows Vista Certified for Windows Vista
    Packaging
    Package Contents FP222WH LCD Monitor
    User Manual
    VGA Cable
    DVI Cable
    Power Cable
    Support Disk
    Dimensions
    Dimensions (W×H×D) 22.4" x 17.9" x 6.7"
    Weight 12.8 lbs.
    Manufacturer Warranty
    Parts 3 years limited
    Labor 3 years limited
     
  22. trog100 New Member

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    2 ms 5 ms.. i would defy ainy human being of this planet to notice the difference..

    i have a three year old lcd panel.. i think its rated 15 ms.. it dosnt "ghost"..

    in fact response time isnt a problem with any cheap lcd panel.. its the more expensive ones that need special tweaks to get good enough response times..

    trog
     
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  23. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    What brand is it? I've been reading customer reviews - some complain of having ghosting on a 6ms monitor.. :ohwell:

    I won't be bothering you any more with monitor questions... :D

    I purchased the LG L226WTQ.
    Oh my what a difference!

    Apart from the size... previously on forums with a dark blue background everything used to get smudged when I scrolled down. My previous monitor was 6ms and this one's 2ms. (Always grey to grey).

    I can see so many different kinds of blacks. Oblivion looks great at night and in the dungeons! Contrast ratio is fantastic. It's 3000:1 and with DFC it can be increased to 5000:1 for gaming and movies.

    Shades of whites and grey are awesome, and it's so sharp, previously I was accustomed to viewing as if I were looking through a softening effect lens, similar to how a photo looks if you put a woman's sheer socking over the lens of the camera. Now it's all much more real!

    Many thanks to everyone for helping me with my decision

    :respect:
     
  24. trog100 New Member

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    actually this response time thing goes right back to when lcd panels were becoming popular..

    basically it was said no lcd was any good for gaming.. i go back no farther than three years.. back then they were claiming 13 to 25 response times and worse .. people nevertheless bought them and played games on them.. and watched movies..

    people like toms hardware put a lot to the test.. they found real response times were way way more than those being claimed by the monitor makers.. in short the conclusion was to take such claims with a large pinch of salt..

    now we are talkng far faster reponse times.. the ghosting argument goes on.. personally i have never seen it on any of the monitors i have looked at except the low powered laptop ones.. my laptop lcd is poor compared to my desktop one..

    cheap lcd panels dont have a very good dynamic range.. not as good as the more expensive ones.. most are biased one way or the other.. if u see good black detail the monitor is biased that way.. u will then see white burn out or lack of white detail..

    good white detail means poor black detail.. its things like this that are better with more expensive monitors.. but the cheap common tn panel technology does not suffer from poor response times.. any purist would say its crap in other ways but not response times

    but monitors are subjective things.. we see what we see.. most of them probably all come from the one or two huge panel makers and simply get re badged..

    anyways thanks for the lack of trust and mild insult dudess.. i wont let it bother me too much.. :D

    trog
     
  25. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Staff Member

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    Awww, I never intended any of my posts to reflect any lack of trust or insult to you! :( Maybe I'm awkward with words because I'm not a native english speaker?

    My 'story' is that originally I had bought a 19" MAG boasting a 6ms response time. It not only ghosted, but also made kind of vertical rippling especially when the monitor was dark.
    Within 5 months (I had... still have... 3 years warranty) it developed 5 dead pixels. On my warranty it says 3 dead pixels. So I sent it back.
    TBH I wouldn't have really bothered, but 2 of them pixels were right next to each other which resulted in one big black ugly dot.
    The retailer where I bought it from gave me an older Olidata 19" temporary replacement. Immediately I realised that it ghosted less and it didn't make the vertical shimmering when my monitor was dark.

    Later they contacted me, and brought the excuse that they had to send it to the company who imports them to Malta, and that company said that although I really had 5 defective pixels they were not totally defective but like 2 totally defective and one 80% defective, another 50% defective etc and is trying to manoevre out of the warranty.

    They told me that they did agree with me and will send the monitor back. So I remained with the Olidata... for about a year now!

    (I know I have a point here, and my contract is between me and my seller not between me and the importer... but I'm not that eager to start a court case over something which probably is worth less than $200 now)

    Apart from this, I checked the Olidata on the internet. It came up as 25ms response time. They didn't specify if it was grey to grey or black to white, but all I can say is that this Olidata performs much better than my more modern 19" MAG... Sure the Olidata does some ghosting, but the MAG in comparison looks as if taken from an Edgar Allan Poe's tale......... Also, the Olidata used to show most shades of white as white, and most shades of black as muddy grey as also did the MAG.

    From my uptil now limited experience I think that colours (especially black and white) will appear much better the higher the contrast ratio is, that is why I see such a difference on this LG I have now. The vertical rippling the MAG had - I have no idea what could have caused that. The smearing and blurring I used to have on both previous monitors (worse on the MAG) is due to the response time - the MAG was supposed to be 6ms...

    As regards the pixel policy - probably I won't be suing because it's not worth the hassle, but they lost me as a customer. I used to buy all my parts from that local shop. Since that incident I bought my case+PSU, processor, motherboard, ram, HDD and DVD - from another place! And since then I also purchased a new graphics card, sound card, my speakers, a new mouse, and now this new LG monitor. I'd have purchased my parts from them had they honoured their part. :nutkick: And by what they did, all my friends know as well and hence are very wary of buying from that outlet.
     

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