Important W10 activation key questions left unanswered by Microsoft

[qubit]

I can't seem to find a straight answer to these questions anywhere and it's putting me off going for the upgrade.

If I upgrade, will my old W7 & W8 keys no longer activate my older OSes? It doesn't mention this either way in the official FAQ. If it invalidates the old key, then it's hardly a free upgrade and is actually a part exchange so they should make this clear as it's a critical point and forms a contract between the user and Microsoft. There's a hint of this in the FAQ answer that you have one month to revert to the old OS.

Similarly, does Microsoft actually explicitely give you a W10 key or do I have to use the Keyfinder utility?

The one thing that does seem clear however, is that regardless of whether your old OS is OEM or retail, the upgrade to W10 is OEM and hence tied to the motherboard, which is quite restrictive if the original was retail. This is also a sneeky way to stop it from being a perpetual licence too, as it dies when the hardware dies or is replaced.

Imagine your mobo dying a week after installing it. You replace it with a new mobo and internet activation of course fails. Do you even get the option of a phone activation? If you do, are Microsoft likely to block it anyway?

Note that I am actually running the RTM version of W10 in VMWare Player, since it came down free on Windows Update at the end of the Insider program. Interestingly, it has an option to let me continue being an Insider or not. If I remain an Insider then I guess it still does the keylogging, which would make it best to opt out of it. Again, I haven't seen anything at all about this. Anyone know?

This is what I see now if I go into settings and Windows Update, Advanced options. Note the Stop Insider builds button.

 

[rtwjunkie]

As I understand it, you are correct in this "free upgrade' essentially bein an OEM tied to the life of your hardware. That's why I stated in your Refusenik thread when I finally deem W10 essential, I will buy a retail copy

Also, since you only have 30 days to change your mind on the upgrade, and W10 then deletes youe windows.old folder, you lose your old OS forever and are essentially trapped. It's a clever way to make sure you upgrade to W10 and stay there. While I think it's an abhorrent tactic, I have to admire it too.

 

[cadaveca]

Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.

Maybe you could recap here, because as a number of writers have pointed out MS has been less than clear on almost every W10 rule they have published, to the point of obfuscating and contradicting themselves!

It would be much appreciated!

 

[m&m's]

Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.

Well, I also don't know the answer of the following question, so please, give me the answer since I actually didn't upgrade yet because I need to know this before I do anything.

Thanks

If I upgrade, will my old W7 & W8 keys no longer activate my older OSes?

 

[cadaveca]

Sheesh. FFS A quick google would have your answer, but I had this page bookmarked:

TL;DR: what happens to your key depends on what type and version of windows you installed WIn10 from.

It depends on the license you upgrade from:

When I upgrade a preinstalled (OEM) or retail version of Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 license to Windows 10, does that license remain OEM or become a retail license?

If you upgrade from a OEM or retail version of Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 to the free Windows 10 upgrade this summer, the license is consumed into it. Because the free upgrade is derived from the base qualifying license, Windows 10 will carry that licensing too.

If you upgrade from a retail version, it carries the rights of a retail version.

If you upgrade from a OEM version, it carries the rights of a OEM version.

Full version (Retail):

- Includes transfer rights to another computer.

- Doesn't require a previous qualifying version of Windows.

- Expensive

Upgrade version (Retail):

- Includes transfer rights to another computer.

- require a previous qualifying version of Windows.

- Expensive, but cheaper than full version

OEM :

OEM versions of Windows are identical to Full License Retail versions except for the following:

- OEM versions do not offer any free Microsoft direct support from Microsoft support personnel

- OEM licenses are tied to the very first computer you install and activate it on

- OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a different model motherboard

- OEM versions cannot be used to directly upgrade from an older Windows operating system

What happens if I change my motherboard?

As it pertains to the OEM licenses this will invalidate the Windows 10 upgrade license because it will no longer have a previous base qualifying license which is required for the free upgrade. You will then have to purchase a full retail Windows 10 license. If the base qualifying license (Windows 7 or Windows 8.1) was a full retail version, then yes, you can transfer it.

From the Windows 10 end user license agreement:

b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...c2?msgId=17e41c57-5cfb-41a0-beee-e9959edfd138

The only time you will get an ACTUAL win10 key is if you buy a full retail/OEM Win10 copy (available RIGHT NOW from Microsoft store).

 

[rtwjunkie]

Thank you. That is dated July 28th. Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.

So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.

 

[cadaveca]

Thank you. That is dated July 28th. Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.

So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.

Not if you have a full retail copy OS. In other words, you have the same "install rights" as the copy you upgraded from. And I do understand that the post is new-ish, but at the same time, it does make some sense to me to check with Microsoft first before going elsewhere, since only Microsoft can directly answer these things. Hence my comment about posting Win10 threads... this thread was posted today claiming these questions were not answered... but they were, just recently, which makes them easy to find.

This other new post other might find useful as well:


http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-fb85-43e3-8be4-07e7c4ab9ea2?tm=1438131062665

 

[R-T-B]

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...ect-from-microsoft.214709/page-5#post-3322876

I've posted about the process several times here. (and elsewhere)

 

[qubit]

Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.

Sheesh. FFS A quick google would have your answer, but I had this page bookmarked:

TL;DR: what happens to your key depends on what type and version of windows you installed WIn10 from.




http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...c2?msgId=17e41c57-5cfb-41a0-beee-e9959edfd138

The only time you will get an ACTUAL win10 key is if you buy a full retail/OEM Win10 copy (available RIGHT NOW from Microsoft store).

Actually, it answers some of it, but not the critical question of whether the old licence will still activate the old OS. Judging by the "licence consumed" wording it probably won't, but it's not clear. Right, so this critical info was sort of finally posted on the 29th in an MS forum thread rather than the official FAQ where it should have been. Can you really not see the problem here? Good thing I posted a thread about it to help raise awareness of it, eh?

So I was right, if the old key is consumed, then it's not so free then, is it? It's actually a part exchange. Yeah, trust Microsoft to do a bait and switch tactic like that. I don't see how that's legal without putting this critical point up front. There's nothing wrong with a part exchange, just make it clear up front.

Oh and obviously I did actually google it before posting this thread, but this didn't come up in the search results. Most people realize that from my OP, but not our esteemed @cadaveca, lol.

Well done for finding it, but once again zero points for having such a dumb attitude and attempting another silly putdown with a strawman argument and hence looking like a bit of a plonker, tsk. c'mom man, I'm not your enemy. Oh and it still wasn't quite answered by Microsoft, so your find isn't quite the slam dunk is it?

 

[ShiBDiB]

My main question is do my insider preview installs automatically get updated to gold or do i have to do something

 

[qubit]

My main question is do my insider preview installs automatically get updated to gold or do i have to do something

Insiders did get the RTM version. I'm an Insider and I got it. Read the last few sentence of my OP where I explain it and show the screenshot.

I'm not sure if Microsoft will allow an Insider build to activate now. Try it in VMWare Player perhaps?

 

[Mussels]

subbing to this thread, getting asked a lot of these questions myself and don't have all the answers.

 

[ShiBDiB]

Insiders did get the RTM version. I'm an Insider and I got it. Read the last few sentence of my OP where I explain it and show the screenshot.

I'm not sure if Microsoft will allow an Insider build to activate now. Try it in VMWare Player perhaps?

I've had these installs going for about 5 months now. They still seem to run fine but the thing telling me they're insider previews is still in the bottom right

 

[qubit]

I've had these installs going for about 5 months now. They still seem to run fine but the thing telling me they're insider previews is still in the bottom right

I'm sorry, I don't know then. <puzzled> Towards the end of the Insider period, MS said we'd get the full version and mine is at the retail 10240 and doesn't show the version in the bottom right. Typing ver at the command prompt shows the version number.

Have you set your updates to Fast mode? If not, try it and initiate an update scan and see what you get. Also, did you use a Microsoft account or was it a local account? That will make the difference too. Actually, I don't think you could install it with a local account, but I'm not sure as I never tried.

 

[zsolt_93]

I always had it with a local account. And now i am not an insider on my account and will get the official rollout much later. I tried to force updating on 2PCs and none of them worked, Windows update erred out on me, and the ISO takes ages to download and still crashes. Good that i can break these installs as a reinstall was coming anyways on these computers with the OS being 2yrs old and starting to bloat, especially on the laptop with HDD.

I am trying Windows Update again as I speak.. Cleaned all folder and remains of previous attempts. Aaaand its stuck again on preparing to install, as it always was. Once i got the romanian version that went further but couldnt keep my applications just my files because of the different locale.. thats what it said at least.

I am writing this OS off.... Moving to Linux or even MAC seems a much better idea now, heck, i could update a hackintosh easier than this piece of crap.

 

[AsRock]

Thank you. That is dated July 28th. Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.

So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.

Sounds to me if you have OEM lic and you have to phone MS their 1st question will be is it retail or oem and you say oem they say gtfoh.

 

[Jetster]

Thank you. That is dated July 28th. Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.

So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.

Yea that was my only question. What if you want to go back to 7. Will the license work still

 

[cadaveca]

So I was right, if the old key is consumed, then it's not so free then, is it? It's actually a part exchange. Yeah, trust Microsoft to do a bait and switch tactic like that. I don't see how that's legal without putting this critical point up front. There's nothing wrong with a part exchange, just make it clear up front.

Upgrade. Upgrade. It's not a full OS, it's a free upgrade to an existing OS.

My main question is do my insider preview installs automatically get updated to gold or do i have to do something

If it is already activated, you can download the "240" build and update from there. That is the key part...it has to be activated and listed in your Microsoft Account in order to be upgraded from preview to release. No new activations have been possible for a few now.

 

[fullinfusion]

Yea that was my only question. What if you want to go back to 7. Will the license work still

Yup it will!

 

[Caring1]

Thank you. That is dated July 28th.
So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.

Actually you lose the Windows.old folder.
You can copy or clone that to use later if you wish to uninstall W10.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

i think it will be identical to all prior times.

I bought win 7 ultimate got a bought upgrade to 8 which deemed the win 7 key dead

8 to 8.1 free upgrade, again pro rendered the 8 key dead, and when i bought media center for some unknown reason, the new key i got subsumed the old one again.

 

[rtwjunkie]

The "license is consumed into it" for both retail and oem versions of prior operating systwns certainly sounds like after 30 days "cooling off" period that MS gives you, you can never go back to that previous OS.

BTW, all these answers.microsoft "facts" are forum answers (and thus interpretations), not official MS answers, so it makes my initial point in here about MS being less than clear.

 

[Jetster]

Yep. Here it is from MS

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Windows-10-faq

 

[rtwjunkie]

Yep. Here it is from MS

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Windows-10-faq

There it is. After 30 days no more W7 or 8.1. You have only 30 days to go back @qubit.