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Is Apple responsible for data charges caused by its Wi-Fi feature

How should Apple notify users of iOS changes?

  • Through specific notification to users

    Votes: 9 75.0%
  • Through informational webpage as currently done

    Votes: 3 25.0%

  • Total voters
    12
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But what was the one for iOS 9.0? Any mention of Wi-Fi Assist and the risk of data usage? I believe, from what I can see, it doesn't.
 
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But what was the one for iOS 9.0? Any mention of Wi-Fi Assist and the risk of data usage? I believe, from what I can see, it doesn't.
There were so many updates with iOS 9 that the user needed to click the link For Details.
 
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Except that isn't how WiFi assist works. WiFi assist only kicks in when there is no internet access via the WiFi connection. It doesn't boost a slow WiFi connection, it kicks in when there is no response to internet requests at all via the WiFi connection.
From what i understand it doesn't kick in when there is "no", It kicks in when wifi is slow. Problem is what is the limit of what is called slow? Some people have said that iOS8 had same feature in it and had no problem. SO would sound like they changed the threshold of that "slow wifi". So really comes to if they threshold to dump to mobile data little to quickly. They should have a popup that does say when it does it to alert users when it happens or have it off by default not on.
 

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From what i understand it doesn't kick in when there is "no", It kicks in when wifi is slow. Problem is what is the limit of what is called slow? Some people have said that iOS8 had same feature in it and had no problem. SO would sound like they changed the threshold of that "slow wifi". So really comes to if they threshold to dump to mobile data little to quickly. They should have a popup that does say when it does it to alert users when it happens or have it off by default not on.

I think Apple is pretty clear with how it works.

Apple WiFi Assist Webpage said:
if you're using Safari with a poor Wi-Fi connection and a webpage doesn't load, Wi-Fi Assist will activate and automatically switch to cellular so that the webpage continues to load

That is pretty clear that it kicks in when the WiFi isn't providing an internet connection, not when the WiFi is slow. WiFi Assist does not boost a slow connection. It kicks in whan the WiFi is refusing to provide access to the internet(for whatever reason).

And, like I said too, Android has had this feature for at least a year now. It isn't a problem.

Edit:
Apparently it was implemented all the way back in 2012 on Android. ZOMG, The Humanity, Why Won't Anyone Think Of The Children!!!
 
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Wifi Assist kicks in when it feels as if the wifi network is too slow and that the data network is faster. I took a class on this dumb thing.

As for calls, none regarding iOS9 today. I might pull an 11 hour day tomorrow if I feel up to it.
 
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Wifi Assist kicks in when it feels as if the wifi network is too slow and that the data network is faster. I took a class on this dumb thing.
that is what I was hitting on, WHat is the threshold for wifi assist to kick in? What is considered "slow"? The definition of slow seems like it changed from 8 to 9 hence people seeing a jump in usage and their bill.
 
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that is what I was hitting on, WHat is the threshold for wifi assist to kick in? What is considered "slow"? The definition of slow seems like it changed from 8 to 9 hence people seeing a jump in usage and their bill.

Do you believe that the difference in consumption is sufficient enough to warrant a $150 phone bill, as cited earlier? What kind of data usage was regular before (somebody might be moaning about a $150 overage, when their usual was $100). Do you also assume that the average user is also incompetent to the point of not understanding how to turn the mobile data usage off whenever they want to use Wifi?

People are stupid, but not that stupid. The cited court case is a class action suit, for the amount of $5 million. Let's say that the average user has an overage of $20. Let's also say that only $1 million is lawyer fees. 4,000,000/20 = 200,000. What these people are alleging is that 200,000 people were so inept as to not be able to turn off roaming data, or even monitor it, and shouldn't be culpable for their ignorance. Seriously?


Let's pose an alternate:
Occifer, I wash too drunk to dribe, but I didunt know bettuh. I wash ignurant, so that telephone pole shuld pay fur my car to be fished. An'uh bar shul pay to.
(Officer, I was too drunk to drive, but I didn't know better. I was ignorant, so that telephone pole should pay for my car to be fixed. The bar should help pay too.)

Same argument. Same assumption of ignorance. No criminal charges. Does the drunk not knowing better really give them license to sue the bar and telephone company? If it doesn't, then these people shouldn't get the chance either. None of this even touches on the EULA and warnings that the current OS is still very much a beta, but let's just conveniently overlook that for now.
 
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I think Apple is pretty clear with how it works.



That is pretty clear that it kicks in when the WiFi isn't providing an internet connection, not when the WiFi is slow. WiFi Assist does not boost a slow connection. It kicks in whan the WiFi is refusing to provide access to the internet(for whatever reason).

And, like I said too, Android has had this feature for at least a year now. It isn't a problem.

Edit:
Apparently it was implemented all the way back in 2012 on Android. ZOMG, The Humanity, Why Won't Anyone Think Of The Children!!!

That`s not clear to me actually. I could easily see that as ìf the webpage doesn`t load within X seconds. With internet browsers it`s something like 30 seconds right? I don`t think there is a 30 second delay with Wi-Fi Assist, so how long does it try?

Android is not a problem because it is disabled by default...

Again, out of our 40 users, about 15 had a spike in usage. We have a 3GB plan, these users usually use up to 1GB, the month they decided to upgrade to iOS 9, their usage spike, and many got very close to their 3GB limit despite never doing so before. After we went around to disable this feature for people, usage went back to what it was before. I admit, small sample size, can't know if there are other factors etc, but 15 out of 40, or 37.5% of your users, have noticeable spikes, the feature is not optimized correctly IMO. We're in a major city too, so it's not like we are in a remote area or something
 
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If I might extend a sort of olive branch here, allow me a moment to review our positions.

1) We agree that the new OS is incomplete, and can agree that Apple labeled it as beta for a good reason.
2) We agree that these users decided to upgrade to a beta, despite being risked.
3) We agree that we'll never know what Apple classifies as a slow connection quantitatively, unless someone at Apple leaks numbers. Apple doesn't even share this information with its developers.
4) We agree that the EULA basically makes Apple non-culpable for damages, despite said lack of culpability generally being seen as an affront to consumers.


If we can agree to all of that, then lets look at our real differences.
1) Do you believe that Apple will provide monetary reimbursements to its customers, despite lack of legal obligation?
2) Does Apple provide sufficient warnings within its EULA to cover additional data charges, which the consumer could easily have prevented?
3) What responsibility does Apple have to its consumers? Should it not provide them beta software? What warnings must be provided? Who even determines the content of said warnings?

Questions 1-3 are tricky. 1 is entirely based upon personal tastes and values. 2 is a matter for courts to decide, but money will probably answer that the EULA was sufficient (between Apple's legal department, and a court system that generally favors corporations). 3 is entirely subjective. Software is such a new thing (to the legal system) that we don't have precedent for these questions. While it's fun to argue, there's a part of me that fears the day when precedent is set for this kind of event.
 

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To be fair, Apple should just release a text notification to everyone with a TL;DR about iOS9 and Wifi Assist to better cover their asses, because if someone happened to go over their data limit be even 3GB, that's a $45+ charge (coming from Sprint at least) on their bill that we shouldn't help with. We'll educate, we'll probably help with some of the charges, but ultimately we point the finger at Apple. Their OS, their apps, their inconsideration for ignorant people which quite honestly has to be 60% of their user base.
 
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FYI, these are opinions:
I don't think the legal system should punish Apple for this, as Apple does have a catch-all in the EULA the protects them. I don't want this kind of precedent in the legal system either anyways.
I think Apple should still extend an olive branch and reimburse some people, especially since their claim to fame were these average-Joe customers. I don't really like this option, but there's no other option really.Having them disable this feature by default would be nice, though the benefits of doing this are now greatly diminished.
Really, what pisses me off here was the lack of proper warning. I think that in this case, it was pretty avoidable, as it wasn't something like an unwanted side-effect or anything, this was BY DESIGN. You know this risks hurting your customers financially, you know the risks, and they are obvious too.

Is Wi-Fi Assist not in the stable version of iOS? I'm not sure why the beta is being mentionned.

What I think Apple deserves is bad publicity for this, as this shows lack of consideration for their customers. For a brand relying so heavily on the perception that they'll do anything for their customer, you expect it to be a bit more idiot-proof and not hiding these kinds of things.
 
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To be fair, Apple should just release a text notification to everyone with a TL;DR about iOS9 and Wifi Assist to better cover their asses, because if someone happened to go over their data limit be even 3GB, that's a $45+ charge (coming from Sprint at least) on their bill that we shouldn't help with. We'll educate, we'll probably help with some of the charges, but ultimately we point the finger at Apple. Their OS, their apps, their inconsideration for ignorant people which quite honestly has to be 60% of their user base.

Something like this?:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15...n-wake-of-complaints-about-excessive-data-use

Or perhaps the page "detailing" what wifi assist is:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205296


Am I barking up the right tree here, or do you mean something else?

While I personally believe Apple didn't do this maliciously, users are still adults with responsibilities. They did this crap, and thus are responsible for it. Arguing that Apple was somehow uniquely dishonest seems like a heck of an uphill battle here.
 
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I think he means an actual notification. People who don't know about Wi-Fi Assist won't be searching for it in the first place.

I feel like apps like Apple Music shouldn't be using Wi-Fi Assist, or should have a toggle or something
 

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Implying people are actually going to look it up before calling to complain to their carrier?

If Apple released a text to everyone explaining what it is and how to disable it, then this issue wouldn't be so bad. Not everyone wants to pay more for an unlimited plan.
 
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I think he means an actual notification. People who don't know about Wi-Fi Assist won't be searching for it in the first place.

I feel like apps like Apple Music shouldn't be using Wi-Fi Assist, or should have a toggle or something

Fair.
 

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Android is not a problem because it is disabled by default...

Not on my LG it wasn't.

Again, out of our 40 users, about 15 had a spike in usage. We have a 3GB plan, these users usually use up to 1GB, the month they decided to upgrade to iOS 9, their usage spike, and many got very close to their 3GB limit despite never doing so before. After we went around to disable this feature for people, usage went back to what it was before. I admit, small sample size, can't know if there are other factors etc, but 15 out of 40, or 37.5% of your users, have noticeable spikes, the feature is not optimized correctly IMO. We're in a major city too, so it's not like we are in a remote area or something

Hasn't it only been out for a month and a half? How do you already have 2 months of data information? I have this funny feeling you're just making this up to try to argue your point.

Plus, did you ever consider the spike in data usage was from downloading the iOS update itself? It is, after all, a 1GB+ download. If they did that on cellular, then it would easily account for the spike in data you saw last month.
 

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Would be spiked in release month from download, spike in month two from WA (wifi assist just happens to match with Washington)

I though the update only went over wifi anyway. I might look into that.
 

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Let's also say that only $1 million is lawyer fees.

You might need to re-calculate your figures: because, I can tell you from experience the lawyer's take 35% to 45% of the total, in no fee schedule cases, like class action lawsuits.

feel like apps like Apple Music shouldn't be using Wi-Fi Assist, or should have a toggle or something

They shouldn't use the WiFi Assist when streaming and a few other reasons; quote from Apple's site:

About Wi-Fi Assist
With iOS 9, you can use Wi-Fi Assist to automatically switch to cellular when you have a poor Wi-Fi connection.

How Wi-Fi Assist works
With Wi-Fi Assist, you can stay connected to the Internet even if you have a poor Wi-Fi connection. For example, if you're using Safari with a poor Wi-Fi connection and a webpage doesn't load, Wi-Fi Assist will activate and automatically switch to cellular so that the webpage continues to load. You can use Wi-Fi Assist with most apps like Safari, Apple Music, Mail, Maps, and more.

When Wi-Fi Assist is activated, you'll see the cellular data icon in the status bar on your device.

Because you'll stay connected to the Internet over cellular when you have a poor Wi-Fi connection, you might use more cellular data. For most users, this should only be a small percentage higher than previous usage. If you have questions about your data usage, learn more about managing your cellular data or contact Apple Support.

You can use Wi-Fi Assist with any iOS device with iOS 9 or later, except for these models: iPhone 4s, iPad 2 Wi-Fi+Cellular, iPad (3rd generation) Wi-Fi+Cellular, and iPad mini (1st generation) Wi-Fi+Cellular.



Turn Wi-Fi Assist on or off
Wi-Fi Assist is on by default. If you don't want your iOS device to stay connected to the Internet when you have a poor Wi-Fi connection, you can disable Wi-Fi Assist. Go to Settings > Cellular. Then scroll down and tap Wi-Fi Assist.


Learn more
  • Wi-Fi Assist will not automatically switch to cellular if you're data roaming.
  • Wi-Fi Assist only works when you have apps running in the foreground and doesn't activate with background downloading of content.
  • Wi-Fi Assist doesn’t activate with some third-party apps that stream audio or video, or download attachments, like an email app, as they might use large amounts of data.
Last Modified: Oct 13, 2015


I don't like Apple. With that said.
Opinion, here and below.
I don't believe the lawsuit has any merit.
What was Apple to gain by this... nothing, it was/is a feature of convenience for the consumer.
The user of any consumer goods/devices, from chewing gum to fusion reactors, should be aware of the operating instructions and proper use of the devices in their possession.
You (the public) have a brain use it... if you have a device, understand it's proper use. If that device is updated, read and understand the update and investigate/learn about any changes.
Ask, if you don't know or understand.
Don't be blaming others for your lack of understanding, or, not asking.

I, actually, blame the user for laziness, in not finding out what is involved in using or upgrading to the OS, in this case or any other case as this.

Heck, the one they should be bitching at is the ones who are profiting from this... the DATA PROVIDERS.
I bet you a dime they knew all about this.
 
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Excuse you. Sure we're getting extra for overages but the customers are pissed off and that is where the real money is; loyalty. It's not our fuck up for what Apple did.
 
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They shouldn't use the WiFi Assist when streaming and a few other reasons; quote from

It says "You can use Wi-Fi Assist with most apps like Safari, Apple Music, Mail, Maps, and more."

It only blocks streaming if it's a third party app from what I understood

Hasn't it only been out for a month and a half? How do you already have 2 months of data information? I have this funny feeling you're just making this up to try to argue your point.

Plus, did you ever consider the spike in data usage was from downloading the iOS update itself? It is, after all, a 1GB+ download. If they did that on cellular, then it would easily account for the spike in data you saw last month.

I'm not sure if it's our MDM or apple, but it forces you to be connected to Wi-Fi to do the upgrade. Also the iOS 9 release didn't coordinate with the beginning of the cell phone plans, and we ended up disabling WA before a month past anyways, so we probably had a few weeks worth, not a month, but the spike was noticeable anyways.

Apparently our MDM provider claims apple hasn't given them the option to be able to control WA, which is a d$%k move for their enterprise customers. I haven't checked with my MDM provider recently though, so maybe something's changed.

I'm not sure how aggressive the Android version is, it could be that it is less noticeable because it's less aggressive. At least from what I can tell, the great majority have this option disabled by default. Combine the limited amount of people affected with people not realizing that feature is on, more tech-savvy users on average, people who actually want the feature on, lack of publicity about it etc, it flying under the radar is understandable. Whether it's LG or Apple, it bothers me, though the sheer scale and what I interpret as hypocrisy (user base, supposedly customer-oriented, idiot-proof, simple etc) from Apple makes me more pissed.
 
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Toothless

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Everyone is freaking out over this feature, I don't get it. It has been in Android for a while now. No one give a shit when it was put in the Android OS.

Smart Network Switch is OFF by default. The user has to enable it, and the fact that it automatically switches to mobile data is in plain text right next to the checkbox.

You have to ask yourself, how often are you connected to a WiFi network that is so bad it doesn't provide an internet connection? Because that is what has to happen for the WiFi assist to kick in.

Um, it happens. Not everyone has multiple APs, maybe it doesn't work so hot in the garage or the back yard where you might be streaming Pandora. Also, what about when there's nothing wrong with the Wifi but the gateway/ISP has issues, or the kids are maxing out your download connection with Netflix streams, or you're on a public network that's so congested that it decides mobile data is faster? That's certainly not uncommon.

Finally, when WiFi assist is active, the data icon on the phone actually changes from the WiFi symbol to the Cellular symbol. So the user is clearly told they are not using WiFi and have no excuse for not knowing they aren't connected to their WiFi. No one should just assume they are connected to a WiFi connection when doing anything that would take up a lot of data.

You sure about that? Android devices show the Wifi symbol at all times when connected to WiFi - even if SNS has fallen back to mobile data for internet.

The bottom line is that Apple should NEVER have made this an opt-out feature, considering there are only a few cell carriers left that offer unlimited data where it wouldn't be an issue.
 
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