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Is Monitor Response Time/Ghosting Even an Issue in 2012?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Jeffredo, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. Jeffredo

    Jeffredo

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    I've been shopping for a replacement for my HP w2207h that I bought in 2008. 5ms GTG with no overdrive (so its actually a lot slower than that). Its been fine - in RPGs and MMOs I have never really noticed ghosting/blurring as I play. Prior to that I had a 2005 17" with 12ms. Again, never noticed ghosting/blurriness.

    Is response time/ghosting/blurriness/smearing even an issue with today's modern monitors, regardless of panel type? Save for a small minority of hardcore FPS gamers I'd wager it isn't. Some of the biggest buzz on hardware forums the past few months have been the Korean IPS monitors purchased on eBay. They don't have particularly good response times (by today's standards) yet that aspect is almost never mentioned. Almost to a post on about four hardware forums I visit most say how BF3 plays smoothly without ghosting/blurriness.

    I've been thinking about getting an IPS (Asus PA248Q) or BenQ MVA monitor (GW2750HM). Many sites and posts warn against anything but a fast, overdriven TN if you game, but is that really necessary (save for fast action FPS games - which I don't play)? If I've been happy with a non-overdrive TN from five or six years ago I would imagine a current IPS or MVA with overdrive would probably be fine. Just looking for really good 8 bit color and image quality this time.
     
  2. Phusius

    Phusius New Member

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    Not really, I have gone through several monitors in the past few months trying to find one I like just right. Asus IPS, Asus 2ms ones, Dell 2ms TN's, LG IPS, and I honestly I never noticed any ghosting except for once, oddly enough on the Dell TN panel, my mouse trail was irregularly slow at removing the old pixels as I moved my mouse cursor around. LG IPS was at 8ms, and really it was more so at the 14ms range, and I didn't notice not ghosting really, but a less snappy response in general.

    My current QNIX 1440 6ms has been perfect though, not noticed any ghosting at all.
     
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  3. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    I have one of the original Dell 30" 3007WPF monitors.
    S-IPS panel, 11 ms GTG ... never had a problem with ghosting or anything else.
    Image quality and color is suberb.
     
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  4. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I thought most IPS panels were measured in black to white to black for response time. I may be wrong.
     
  5. Frag Maniac

    Frag Maniac

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    Depends on the person, type of display you're coming from, the game platform you use, and even the source material. Some are more susceptible than others, and certainly those coming from CRT are likely to notice it more. I have also seen some saying they cannot handle most any non LED LCD with the Wii motion controllers. Check the Input Lag Wars thread on the AVS forum, there's lots of talk about it (they talk about more than just input lag).

    I came from a CRT, and am now on a Panasonic TL-C32U3 (32" Alpha IPS LCD). I notice subtle ghosting and blurring at times, and occasionally it bothers me, but I've also noticed it can depend on the quality of the source material or broadcast. For instance some games when played on an LCD require VSync or you get noticeable screen tear. That alone is MUCH more significant on LCDs than CRTs.

    I know they're not the same thing, but sometimes enabling Vsync in some games makes the image not just less susceptible to tears, but clearer, as if there's less jitters and blur. Skyrim is one of those games.

    Personally I long for the day when LCDs are replaced with better tech. It's a big part of why I kept my TV purchase under $350.
     
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  6. Ramo1203

    Ramo1203

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    I think the response time issue was a thing at the beginning of the LCD screens. Now it's not really a problem for most users.
     
  7. Jeffredo

    Jeffredo

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    Just last week I was using Adaptive Vertical Sync globally with my GTX 670 (overrides the settings in all games). Must be a bug because it was not working at all in Skyrim and tearing/blurring/ghosting was rampant. Switched it back over to 3D applications handling vertical sync and the problem disappeared.
     
  8. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    The specs state GTG. They also include a 14ms TrTf (Time rising-time falling).
    I think every company puts out the specs that makes the monitor look the best. ;)
     
  9. LAN_deRf_HA

    LAN_deRf_HA

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    I found it very noticeable on TN panels, and then found it much more noticeable on my IPS panel. On the IPS it just looks like blur. Neither are considered slow for what they are it's just the inherent shittiness of LCD displays. Wish they could just make small Plasma TVs cause they're rapidly approaching perfection and tend to be a bit more affordable.
     
  10. Frag Maniac

    Frag Maniac

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    Well hopefully Nvidia are aware of it and working on a solution. It's often common with new GPU features, but can be hard to take if you've waited a long time for that new powerful graphics beast you've been saving up for.
    ^^^THIS! I can't wait for a better tech to replace them, and I'm not sold on plasma either, esp having to get 40" or bigger.
     
  11. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    I would love to add to this, I am also like the OP, I have an LG W2243S with a slight flicker, Im looking to buy to a BenQ GW2750HM, Again this is a non overdriven GTG 5ms panel, with the new VA will i notice any change? or will my untrained eye be wowed by it's shear size?
    IPS is WAYYY out of my megre budget, but will another cheap TN be a better option for me?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2012
  12. radrok

    radrok

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    I've used mostly Dell monitors, never noticed any ghosting on the 2408WFP, 3008WFP and the current U3011s.
     
  13. Jeffredo

    Jeffredo

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    With the GW2750HM AMA on "Premium" (BenQ's version of overdrive) I doubt you would notice any difference vs. an old non-overdriven TN panel. Here's a couple of reviews on it:

    http://pcmonitors.org/reviews/benq-gw2750hm
    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_gw2750hm.htm

    I finally settled on a Dell U2412M (e-IPS) and it performs just as well as my old TN in response time. Maybe better. It has just 6 bit+ FRC color, but its still vastly better than my old HP.
     
  14. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    All LCD monitors suffer significant ghosting, even if people think they don't see it - it's inherent to the technology. Any kind of panning will show it up straight away, especially horizontal panning. Some LCDs are considerably better than others of course, though. This was the one thing that the old CRT monitors were way better at. The only time I've seen this disappear is with 3D Vision, since the shutter glasses introduce flicker. Animation then looks awesome!

    Hopefully, AMOLED or something similar will replace them soon and fix this problem.
     
  15. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    thanks guys! Is BenQ a good brand? i wont be changing for a long time if you have any similar suggestions
     
  16. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    BenQ is not too bad for budget, but don't expect it to be the miracle do it all
     
  17. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    All I'm looking for is something bigger than my TN LG panel, without too much ghosting and decent color.

    It should be ok for gaming and some general work?

    I'm just very apprehensive as i this is the most i've ever spent on a monitor til now £100 was my max.
     
  18. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    @Bo$$

    Iiyama are a very good brand - I've got one. Dell are good too, but they tend to be pricey. Other good brands include Asus and Samsung - but watch out for the annoying flashing power light in standby. Most, if not all their monitors are like this.
     
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  19. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    Can you guys recommend one? less than £200 if possible, I really have no clue how much better VA is to TN and what i am actually looking for in a monitor :)
    I would like an LED for powersaving and reduced eyestrain :D

    that is if the BenQ isn't the best at the price
     
  20. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    In broad terms, the order of panel quality is IPS > VA > TN. However, they all have their pros and cons, so it's never that straightforward and what you choose depends on how you use your monitor and what your budget is.

    LED backlights don't save that much and don't make a difference to eyestrain. Colours can look better with CCFL monitors, too. Again, there's no hard and fast with this.

    A great site to help you learn about LCD monitors is http://www.tftcentral.co.uk who also review them.
     
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  21. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    mmm, BenQ isn't too badly reviewed over there... I think i will get that unless i can find something which says it'll ghost noticably.

    Also how are dead pixel on these sorts of monitors?
     
  22. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    I don't think benq are a bad brand, they just aim for the budget end of the market, so perhaps build quality and reliability won't be as good. I'm just guessing here though, as these are the things that are usually skipped on to reduce the price.

    I've been lucky enough not to see any dead pixels on LCD monitors for a long time. However, that doesn't mean that you won't get unlucky and cop a monitor with dead pixels. A few brands guarantee zero defects and will warrant it if even one develops over time, but of course you pay more for those monitors.
     
  23. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    Thats generally the idea, I'm Considering the BenQ GW2750HM or the ACER V273HLObmid. I never used either of these brands for anything at all... this is an all purpose PC which has a lot of video editing and photo editing as long as moderate/heavy gaming.

    I would consider others but they are out of my budget
     
  24. Jeffredo

    Jeffredo

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    If it were between those two I'd go with the 8 bit M-VA BenQ with overdrive vs. a 6 bit TN panel without overdrive.
     
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  25. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    I've seen a few examples of them being great and others being not so good, this panel in general is quite promising Im just not sure i want the risk when spending £188 that it's gonna ghost in heavy gaming, Unless some one who has a similar panel tells me it's awesome or it's decent enough :)
     

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