Is my SSD killing Windows? [UPDATE: fixed]

[qubit]

I suspect that my Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD is causing Windows to semi-lock up and/or crash intermittently. Before I get into potentially exhaustive testing to pin down the problem, I think I remember reading something about this with this model on a TPU thread and a possible solution. However, I can't find it and Googling for the problem doesn't reveal anything conclusive.

I even noticed it when trying to install W10 to it yesterday. The install disc twice bombed out with an AHCI driver error forcing me to restart the installation. W10 did install and then ran ok for the most part, but again, crashed with an AHCI driver error a couple of times. There were no driver updates to install, either. Basically, everything is solid as a rock, but then it hits out of the blue.

I even tried to install the latest Intel RST driver that's certified for W10, but it failed with a compatibility error. The ancient RST driver from the Asus website wanted to install OK, but I wasn't happy trying such an ancient driver, so didn't install it.

I've double checked the UEFI BIOS settings and they look ok. In particular, they're set to AHCI, non RAID. My PC isn't overclocked, either.

So, does this model have a problem with stability? I've had a few Windows 7 meltdowns in the 11 months that I've had it which I don't remember happening so often or so severely when I used a HDD beforehand.

My system specs are up to date for you to check what I'm running it on.

I'm currently running my old W7 installation on a spare WD Green 2TB and it's just sooo slooow! One forgets just how fast these SSDs are after a while.

UPDATE

Solution in post 35


ANOTHER UPDATE

Weird benchmarks in post 44


YET ANOTHER UPDATE

Switched to the Intel SATA port and now I'm seeing the full performance of the SSD in post 65

 

[tabascosauz]

"I don't remember it happening so often with HDD"

Does this mean that it did happen before with an HDD? Perhaps you want to run memtest to make sure that it's not your RAM kit.

Intel RST doesn't really do anything for non-RAID setups. As for the incompatibility error, Intel software (namely Small Business Advantage suite) has been doing that to me lately. Sometimes it throws me "This platform is not compatible" or "Please install .NET Framework 4.5" when this board is certified for SBA and I've already installed .NET 4.5.

 

[qubit]

I've had this CPU, mobo and RAM setup for around 4 years now and the memory becomes a little foggy, lol.

I think I had one W7 installation on there for around 3 years+ until it eventually just became too bloated and slow so I had to finally reformat and start over. That's how Windows setups tend to get after a long time rather than actually unstable as they fill up full of registry crap and useless files, but I don't remember too many lockups and crashes like this no, although they weren't totally absent either. To be honest, I suspect that this isn't the most stable mobo in the world despite it's high end status, but it's never been something I could put my finger on because the frequency was too low and irregular. However, I ended up taking out the overclock a couple of years ago because I suspected stability and never overclocked it since.

Yes, it could be the SSD, RAM, PSU, mobo (perhaps a different SATA socket would help) and a whole host of other things, but before I start spending lots of time trying to pin down this elusive problem, I'd like to know if it could be this model of SSD rather than the specific sample I have. I'm sure I saw something about a firmware update for it to fix this. btw, TRIM is definitely on.

 

[tabascosauz]

I've had this CPU, mobo and RAM setup for around 4 years now and the memory becomes a little foggy, lol.

I think I had one W7 installation on there for around 3 years+ until it eventually just became too bloated and slow so I had to finally reformat and start over. That's how Windows setups tend to get after a long time rather than actually unstable as they fill up full of registry crap and useless files, but I don't remember too many lockups and crashes like this no, although they weren't totally absent either. To be honest, I suspect that this isn't the most stable mobo in the world despite it's high end status, but it's never been something I could put my finger on because the frequency was too low and irregular. However, I ended up taking out the overclock a couple of years ago because I suspected stability and never overclocked it since.

Yes, it could be the SSD, RAM, PSU, mobo (perhaps a different SATA socket would help) and a whole host of other things, but before I start spending lots of time trying to pin down this elusive problem, I'd like to know if it could be this model of SSD rather than the specific sample I have. I'm sure I saw something about a firmware update for it to fix this. btw, TRIM is definitely on.

Memtest is useful to have around on a USB. Anyways, the 840 EVO had the whole issue with not maintaining speeds over time, but the 850 Pro doesn't appear to suffer from the same issue. What the 850 Pro did have was a slew of corrupted firmware updates that bricked people's SSDs. But nothing about that I'm afraid. I think that SSD failure tends to be pretty clear and spectacular compared to HDDs, which muddle around in the gray area until they decide that they've had enough.

This problem seems a little uncharacteristic of high-end drives like the 840 Pro/850 EVO/850 Pro that are usually very reliable. I wonder if it's your motherboard?

 

[qubit]

Agreed about memtest and I will run it for sure. I've run it before on this system and never had a single error. However, from experience I can say the following:

"good" result = memory may still be bad. Had faulty memory that passed the damned thing every time, including long soak tests, yet was unstable as fuck in Windows, locking up the PC solid after a minute or two on the desktop
"bad" result = memory actually bad

This is why I don't consider memtest a reliable indicator of properly functioning memory, but only a guide. Only if it reports bad then do I have a definitive result.

Yes, I found Google results showing a bricked firmware update, but nothing more.

Perhaps I have a faulty mobo or SSD. What fun.

EDIT

A bit more frantic googling revealed this thread with someone having a similar problem to me.

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43382

Mine only became this serious over the last couple of days. However, now that I've imaged it onto my Green drive it's rock solid, strongly suggesting something funny with that SSD. I'm using it right now to make this post in fact.

 

[jsfitz54]

Have you tried the new Samsung Magician 4.8 : http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/support/downloads.html

Performance Optimization Tab / Advanced

New migration software as well, v 3.0

 

[qubit]

Yeah, I'm gonna install that and see what gives (currently on version 4.6). It's way past my bedtime now and I've got work tomorrow, so I won't be doing any of this now, lol.

Just thought of something simple that I can try which might be give me results much quicker: install it in my previous main rig. It's an old Gigabyte socket 775 mobo with E8500 CPU, but it's run rock solid stable since I got it in 2008 and is now used as a file backup machine. I'll image its OS over to the SSD and see if it starts playing up. If it doesn't then it could be a bad mobo in my main rig, or perhaps that combination of mobo/SSD just doesn't work. Did you see in that other thread the problem was the later BIOS didn't like the SSD and it was also an Asus mobo (AMD side)? Does make me wonder.

btw, I use Hard Disc Manager for my HDD/SSD manipulations. Awesome program.

www.paragon-software.com/home/hdm-professional

 

[tabascosauz]

Yeah, I'm gonna install that and see what gives (currently on version 4.6). It's way past my bedtime now and I've got work tomorrow, so I won't be doing any of this now, lol.

Just thought of something simple that I can try which might be give me results much quicker: install it in my previous main rig. It's an old Gigabyte socket 775 mobo with E8500 CPU, but it's run rock solid stable since I got it in 2008 and is now used as a file backup machine. I'll image its OS over to the SSD and see if it starts playing up. If it doesn't then it could be a bad mobo in my main rig, or perhaps that combination of mobo/SSD just doesn't work. Did you see in that other thread the problem was the later BIOS didn't like the SSD and it was also an Asus mobo (AMD side)? Does make me wonder.

btw, I use Hard Disc Manager for my HDD/SSD manipulations. Awesome program.

www.paragon-software.com/home/hdm-professional

I hate to poop on the party but the performance Optimization tab doesn't appear to contain anything useful. It's like Intel SSD Toolbox's Optimize tab; it's basically TRIM for XP and other old OSes that don't do TRIM automatically. Win 8 and above isn't supported.

That is unless...you're on Win 7? I was under the impression that Win 7 also TRIMs, but you could give it a shot, seeing as you're on Win 7. Are you on the Max Reliability settings in Magician?

 

[Blue-Knight]

Is my SSD killing Windows?

Strange, I would expect the opposite: "Is Windows killing my SSD?"

 

[Mussels]

in my experience, its either a dying SSD or faulty/badly setup RAM. you are running 4x sticks of ram pretty much at the capacity limit for your IMC, so you could need more volts there to keep it stable if its aging?

 

[Jetster]

I have the Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD and windows 10. No issues. I just did a clean install too. Maybe its your board or cable

 

[RandomSadness]

Did you use Event Viewer to troubleshoot?

 

[IamEzio]

The IRS 12.8 is not ancient because asus didn't update the site ,but thats the last supported version for 6 and 7 series of chipsets , the version for W8.1 will work just fine on W10 . but maybe you have another problem and not driver related.

 

[qubit]

Thanks for all your responses people. It looks like there's nothing wrong with this SSD model, but the specific hardware I'm using. I'll begin testing and keep you updated on progress. I'll start by moving the SSD to my old rig and running memtest on my main rig. W7 is still running rock solid on that old HDD.

@Mussels While I'm running 4 memory sticks, it's "only" 16GB while the mobo maxes out at 32GB. Do you think I should try a little more voltage anyway? I have to say I'm reluctant to do this though.

 

[Mussels]

@Mussels While I'm running 4 memory sticks, it's "only" 16GB while the mobo maxes out at 32GB. Do you think I should try a little more voltage anyway? I have to say I'm reluctant to do this though.

for now, drop the ram clocks low to 1066Mhz or something. there is always a chance the IMC or the memory has weakened, and thats the easiest way to rule that out.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I'm having SSD problems and 3 out of 3 resulted in BSODs, not lock up. When you think about it, an SSD is just storage. With Windows already loaded, it no longer requires the SSD to self-diagnose because the important bits are in the memory. As such, SSD failures almost always result in BSOD. The problem has to lie elsewhere. The only way an SSD could cause a lock up is if the controller on the SSD is acting erratically.

 

[Mussels]

I'm having SSD problems and 3 out of 3 resulted in BSODs, not lock up. When you think about it, an SSD is just storage. With Windows already loaded, it no longer requires the SSD to self-diagnose because the important bits are in the memory. As such, SSD failures almost always result in BSOD. The problem has to lie elsewhere. The only way an SSD could cause a lock up is if the controller on the SSD is acting erratically.

when my first OCZ SSD died, the mouse would work but apps wouldnt load, basically acted like the system had half frozen. SSD failures can be weird.

 

[qubit]

when my first OCZ SSD died, the mouse would work but apps wouldnt load, basically acted like the system had half frozen. SSD failures can be weird.

This is somewhat similar to what I've been seeing. In my case, Explorer (ie the desktop) freezes) and I get the spinning roundel. I then may or may not get a prompt to restart the crashed Explorer. When I click it, it tends to come right back to that dialog box and if I'm lucky, it will actually fix it for a few minutes.

The SSD is still under warranty, so hopefully it will play up in the old rig confirming that this is the faulty part. I got it off Amazon so I won't get any RMA headaches.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

If the computer responds to any input (mouse or keyboard), it's not SSD. For example, the computer should be able to still open Task Manger if the SSD locked up but did not trigger a BSOD. If something deeper caused the freeze, ctrl+alt+del will do nothing.

 

[Mussels]

If the computer doesn't respond to any input (mouse or keyboard), it's not SSD. For example, the computer should be able to still open Task Manger if the SSD locked up but did not trigger a BSOD. If something deeper caused the freeze, ctrl+alt+del will do nothing.

for me with my dead vertex, the window would load but the content inside would fail - like i could open a text document or a folder on my desktop but they'd be blank, and either suddenly load or freeze/BSOD.

 

[Vayra86]

I have a Samsung 830 SSD and I had been suffering from frequent blue screening for a while, until I tried switching the SATA cable. And presto. Problem gone. That old SATA cable is now used for my ODD and just yesterday I noticed the ODD not appearing in device manager. Culprit found

Try that, can be a very simple solution.

It takes a lot for Windows to kill an SSD. In my time I have seen too many BSOD's to count until I tried this solution, and Windows was still rock stable, even after a gazillion KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERRORs. I am now still running the same install with the same applications and zero issues.

 

[qubit]

@Vayra86 Oh yeah, I'd already tried the cable long before I posted this, but a fair suggestion.

Everybody, I've got a busy evening tonight, but I'll try to get round to installing it on my old PC later and soak testing it. It's just a shame that I don't have another SSD to put in my main rig to try for a double verify.

 

[qubit]

Ok, I've installed the SSD in my old PC and set the BIOS to AHCI mode. I then installed W10 off the same install disc which went on without a hitch and activated ok. It's now been running just fine for about an hour with no glitches. W10 is now doing its forced updates bless (including NVIDIA driver) lol.

Although not a soak test, this suggests that my mobo or memory might be at fault or that the mobo and SSD just don't work well together perhaps. So inconclusive. What a fucking headache. I hate faults like this.

I'll run it overnight on the old PC, which I expect will work just fine. I'll then run memtest on the main rig for a bit and try installing again off the disc. Hopefully it will bomb out, otherwise it's inconclusive. I will then run memtest and if that passes downclock the memory like Mussels suggested and try again. If still no good, I'll remove 3 of the 4 sticks and see how it goes. I will also see about changing the SATA cable again and perhaps using a different port. This mobo uses Intel SATA and a third party one too.

I'm not at a dead end, but I really didn't need this and I'm all ears for suggestions. If I just can't get it stable, I might consider upgrading to Skylake on a Gigabyte mobo, which is an expense I'd rather not have, especially over something like this. One has a feel for these things over time and I don't think that this Asus mobo has been 100% right from day one. It's still running fine on this slow-ass HDD - aka inconclusive, lol.

 

[jsfitz54]

How about using Piriform's "Defraggler" or some other utility to look at the drive "Health" status?

or Crystal Disk Info?

Is there anything that points to the SSD at this point?

Re-Flash ASUS motherboard bios v. 3802?
See v 3603 info : http://support.asus.com/Download.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=P8Z68-V+PRO/GEN3&p=1&s=39

What about trying a different brand of memory?

 

[qubit]

It's been running for several hours now in the old PC with no problems.

I've got Hard Disc Sentinel which shows the SSD as 100% healthy. That's not a guarantee of course, but it's likely to be good.

Why do you think this particular older BIOS would be better?

I only have these 4 DDR3 memory modules unfortunately. I'd have definitely swapped them out otherwise.