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Islam. Christianity. Tolerance. and Candle...

Discussion in 'General Nonsense' started by GSG-9, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

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    You do have to admit, the theory is spun very well.


    Making you cry hahahaha classic.


    Yes, it is a very good book in so many ways. The people that wrote the bible were no less then geniuses of their time.

    It is why is it still used in public schools to this day on the history side.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2008
  2. GJSNeptune

    GJSNeptune New Member

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    Homer was a genius as well. ;)
  3. candle_86 New Member

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    thats and most of the major historical events can be proven from the Exodus to the Crusifiction.

    Rome kept records of the crecified also, and Jesus of Nazarath is listed. They also mention a jewish report of a grave robber at his tomb reported by his followers. This is futher substantiated by the recoverey of his burial cloth in the tomb but no body being found, and the reports to rome of Jesus walking those these where ignored. Also Jewish history records the earthquake and the curtain in the temple tearing though this is blamed on god being angry at christ by there tradition. Secular stuidies can prove the bible, but they can not disporve it, that is reason enough
  4. Morgoth

    Morgoth

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    candle_86 you sould write a book
  5. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    IMO, the largest bit of evidence to prove evolution can be viewed by mankind's history:

    The oldest homo sapien specimen that's been found date back at least 195,000 years - that predates the oldest recorde of recorded history at about 3000 BC. 192,000 years is a massive difference . . . and considering mammals first appear on the earth about 65 million years ago, there's still quite a massive amount of time that humans could have existed as well, prior to the earliest found remains.

    homo sapien specimens that have been found show numerous traits that show how humans had adapted to those conditions in which they lived - they stood slightly hunched over, with a lower center of gravity; meaning, they had better balance, and could run a lot quicker than we do now. Their bone structure was a lot thicker, meaning that the skeleton could handle larger muscles, support more weight, and withstand more severe impacts without breaking; the skull itself is fairly small, though, due to the more primitive brain.

    as humans evolved, humans stood more upright, and grew taller; the skeleton and bone structure became thinner and more lengthy; without the need to chase and hunt prey, or wander from one habitat to the next following a source of food, our bodies have changed to how they are now.


    Now, some people will argue that's "adaptation" but consider the definitions of the two words (taken from dictionary.com):

    evolution - Biology. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

    adaptation - Biology. a. any alteration in the structure or function of an organism or any of its parts that results from natural selection and by which the organism becomes better fitted to survive and multiply in its environment.
    b. a form or structure modified to fit a changed environment.
    c. the ability of a species to survive in a particular ecological niche, esp. because of alterations of form or behavior brought about through natural selection.

    we can interpret adaptation as an early genetic change, usually within a small populous, to conditions within their selected habitat. Evolution is where that adaptation has become genetically normal across the large population as a whole, and not limited to a small, regional percentage.
  6. 3991vhtes

    3991vhtes New Member

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    Homer Simpson?
  7. GJSNeptune

    GJSNeptune New Member

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    No, but...d'oh.
  8. GSG-9

    GSG-9

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    I never mentioned anything about primitive apes. You just agreed with me above that Natural Selection and Evolution are not one in the same. I stand by what I said as no one has provided an argument for it, you have all rephrased deffinitions. Evolution does not have a solid scientific base that has been in place for more than 5 years that is accurate. Natural Selction is fact. we understand it, we can see it in our lifetimes. Evolution pretends small changes via natural selection can generate advansed systems like eyes or venoms, things that have to work perfict from day one. Until those issues are resolved, evolution cannot have laws, and if it has no laws, I will not consider it 'fact' in my conversations.

    I used the word Theory. I ment the word theory, Evolution needs a model, I understand that the whole consept of evolution is going from disorder to order on a grand scale (which technically but not really violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.) but it still needs it.
  9. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    seeing as how this thread was still on evolution:

    [​IMG]
  10. Azazel

    Azazel New Member

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    Lol :)
  11. russianboy New Member

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    Religion is belief and belief is not universal.

    What one person may believe in may not be the same as another's. For some it's one religion, for some it's another, or maybe it isn't religion at all! I for example believe in my values (freedom, knowledge, and pursuit of happiness).

    Science (and math I suppose) on the other hand, is objective. When in a lab or classroom, you go by the standard procedures. You can't stand up and shout "NO! 1+1=3, because I believe that!" or "Cs IS NOT CAESIUM, BUT COUNTER-STRIKE!" In such times, you have to distinguish between your beliefs and the task at hand, and not let them meddle with eachother.

    Evolution is one example. Science has not only shown testable theories, reproduced it in a small-scale (altering DNA and shit), and also has shown us proof of evolution. Cavemen, fossils, genetic code, even biological signs. We have thumbs, so do apes, our ancestor. We have a small tail, so do apes. We share so many things from them.

    But, it would be wise to note that everything, in some way or another is related. We can take the code from DNA that makes insulin, put it in bacteria, and they will make commercial grade insulin. Both bacteria and humans have the genetic capacity to make those chemicals. How? Because we are genetically similar, and that is from evolving.

    Creationism teaches that everything was and is all different, due to everything being "created". Our DNA is 99% the same of a chimp, and 85% same as a carrot. Think about that.

    You gotta keep religion separate from education and science, as well as politics. You don't like abortion? Don't do it! Let the raped 13 year old girl do it. Don't like marijuana? Fine, more for me. blah blah blah ad nauseum.


    PS: While our class was discussing the birth of our planet and pretty much this, some kids started complaining, and he provided great examples (some mentioned here) that shut them up...right before the damn fire alarm went off.
    beyond_amusia says thanks.
  12. Steevo

    Steevo

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    YOu can use coconut milk as an alternative to blood in transfusions.
    10 Million points folded for TPU
  13. WhiteLotus

    WhiteLotus

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    you sir, i salute! :rockout:
  14. beyond_amusia

    beyond_amusia New Member

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    But if the Romans fabricated Christianity, they'd take the needed steps to cover it up, including fake documents. Christianity so closely resembles the ancient Egyptian religion that it almost screams plagiarism.
  15. beyond_amusia

    beyond_amusia New Member

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    Amen. discrimination exists in the laws and society (in the past and now as well) solely because of personal beliefs. If these people that are running around being haters had it happen to them they'd scream discrimination, but as long as they are not the victims, they do not care what is wrong or right. As long as BIASED conservative\religious people are involved with law making, science ect, it will remain biased and anything that does not support their beliefs will not be published nor will it be accepted.
  16. GSG-9

    GSG-9

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    I would not go so far as to say its proved, there are many 'evolutions' that cant half work. Like eyes, I have seen the diagrams created to show the 'evolution' of an eye. There are many scientists that agree it is to complex to be created in steps, because it will consistently not work threw the first 60 iterations (at all). and Because of the 3rd law of thermodynamics the eye will not continue to evolve. This is fixed by adding in a large factor. That being time. Im not here to argue if its existent, but it does not cover all created things in the theories present form.

    Actually, as a diabetic I can tell you manufactured insulin is not as effective as real insulin and the fastest kind we have created (humalog) has a peek time of 45min. There is a very large difference between instantaneous and 45min. Sure we can make things similar, but as of now we cant replicate it.

    As for the 99% 85%, think about this. 99% of the code in Vista is the same as the code for Crysis. Once its compiled its all 0's and 1's. Its just the number of 0's and 1's
  17. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Monoclonal Insulin is as effective as natural insulin, it's just a bad myth that it isn't and there's no conclusive study done to prove it's not as effective as natural insulin. As far as evolution of eyes go, photosensitivity occours in eukaryotes with eye-spots though I wouldn't link it to an evolution chain as such.
  18. GSG-9

    GSG-9

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    Its not on the market yet, it very well could have some very unsatisfactory side effects.
  19. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    :confused: are we talking about the same thing? Monoclonal = you genetically engineer a certain bacteria to produce insulin, it produces pure insulin for you. Yes, it's out in the market. And sensitivity depends. Side effects are a function of a person's sensitivity. Some people are sensitive to natural insulin too.
  20. GSG-9

    GSG-9

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    That is certainly not on the market as you are describing it, I am telling you right now the fastest acting insulin an American can go out and buy with or without a prescription is Humalog(Brand) rDNA origin lispro Insulin. It takes 45min to peak. Thats a fact, it will very per person but thats how long it takes to fully START to act.
  21. beyond_amusia

    beyond_amusia New Member

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    But you must remeber just how YOUNG science is... If you took a computer, or a car, or an airplane back to the early 1700's you'd be declared a witch and they'd burn you alive. Any real advances were held back by the Vatican and other officials. Only recently have we gotten to the point were we can almost grow organs for dying people. Mental illness meant you were possessed by demons until the 1800's. Medicine is still a young thing too; it's still being 'discovered' rather than made and designed specifically for a certain illness, hence why it don't always work. Soon though all that will change... I imagine that by 2030 we will have meds MADE, that growing a new heart will be normal and accepted, and that things like cancers and diabetes may be cured or prevented via genom therapy...
  22. beyond_amusia

    beyond_amusia New Member

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    That's why we need a democrat in the white house. :)
  23. GSG-9

    GSG-9

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    and I don't think evolution has enough under its belt to jump on a bandwagon for it yet. They have some (better) explaining to do.
  24. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Oi? What's BioSulin (tm)? Chances are I'm wrong, I've to ask Dad tomorrow morning. :eek:

    Recombinant DNA. When you 'program' a bacterium on what to do, you do so with plasmids (think of them as sets of instructions you're passing on to them). Just for the know.
  25. russianboy New Member

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    Yes, but we do not have the technology to prove some aspects of evolution just yet.

    But we have the basics down, and it is much more rational than people appearing out of nowhere. Which automatically has flaws, and breaks the laws of physics.

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