1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Islam. Christianity. Tolerance. and Candle...

Discussion in 'General Nonsense' started by GSG-9, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. GSG-9

    GSG-9

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,681 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    144
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Mn
    First of all dont speak for a whole religion. you are terribly qualified. If you will speak for Christianity, choose a denomination. If you will be using sources from the bible FOR GODS SAKE USE A GOOD TRANSLATION. You sat there and went on about how bad the modern church is, if you must then DONT use a translation like new living! Use New King James or English standard Version or New American standard Version! You chose a translation that is easily twisted to what you wanted to say.

    Yes the church never accepted the scrolls, I think they are a fabrication. Not to say they are fake in the sense that someone recently made them but I do not believe them to be divinely inspired, and if you do add them in with the Torah and New Testament it creates contradictions.
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,596 (13.37/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,986
    I really don't want to take part in this conversation since I believe there are other outlets for it besides TPU, but God bless you all, and may love fill your hearts and souls. Love your fellow man. Instead of getting angry, or hatefull because of differences, lead by example and let the love within you shine out for all to see. :toast:

    -erocker.
    GSG-9 and das müffin mann say thanks.
  3. candle_86 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,916 (1.40/day)
    Thanks Received:
    233
    The dead sea scrolls are a lie, i have also taken the time to read them, it metions jesus having a son, which we know never happened, that alone is enough to make them worthless. I pick the new living because it is easy to understand for most, as most would not understand KJV, i read the KJV. Also I do not belong to a denomination, for Jesus said all those who belive in him are the same. I am a Christian, i am not a babtist, catholic, luthren, methodist, ect. I am a christian. To seperate into denominations has caused more grief for Christianity than anything else, as we stopped beliving the bible and started beliveing what the chuch doctrine stated, you will find errors within doctrine, but you will not in the bible.

    As to god being a god of peace, he never says that, he is a vengeful god, he calls himself that. He sent Jesus unto this earth so that the sinners would be saved, because god can not look upon our sins. Jesus came unto the earth and died on a cross so man could be saved, the only innocent man that ever lived died on a cross so that we may live. Those of you who discredit what deeds he did for you, only serve to anger god. As he gave his son for you, and you in return spot upon him with your own choice of non belife.

    And to say Christians, Jews and Muslims have anything in common is so very wrong, Islamic text calls Jesus a prophet but not the son of god. This alone makes Christians and Muslims diffrent. As for the Jews there are some who beleave in Christ and those that do not, but if Islam and Judism are so close, why is it that in the middle east synogagues are burned by the muslims? No true Muslim would say Jahova and Allah are the same, no true Christian or Jew would say it either. I worship the one true god, and i thank him everyday for sending his son unto this earth 2000 years ago so i might live forever in his palace.

    Jesus said there is a place prepared for me, is there one for you, is your name written in the lambs book of life, can you say beyond doubt that you will go to heaven, if not then you will go to hell. All Jesus ever asked of anyone was to turn from wickedness and to commit your life to god so that you may live forever. He gave his life so we might live, can you now tell him it wasnt good enough, can you tell the very god who sacrificed his son, that his loss means nothing to you, can you spit in his face?
  4. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,597 (5.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,236
    I seriously want to comment as I love a good hearty debate but I feel like ive arrived a bit too late to have a say in this one -

    this thread has possibly been one of the most interesting topics@TPU i have ever read.

    Each side places forward good points & arguments against each other.

    now to introduce myself.....

    Im am from a christian background I went to church, I went to the a few of the youth groups that the church ran, to the point where I even joined the youth worship band playing for our/peoples youth groups & also a few sunday services.

    but as i went on i started to feel that as much as i wanted to be apart of all of it - i couldnt

    Someone mentioned christianity being hypocritical earlier & they are correct.

    as much as i wanted to believe in what i was told by the ministers I didnt want to be another sheep that got lead around by my nose.

    Im an Athiest, I dont have a religion but I respect all religions even if i dont agree with their teachings. (which makes for a good debate)

    Hello everyone :)
  5. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    7,043 (2.71/day)
    Thanks Received:
    909
    Location:
    Sector ZZ₉ Plural Z Alpha
    kinda hard to say, scientifically, they've been able to carbon date the majority of them to pre-date the oldest known torah, but then again, if they were that important to begin with, you'd think they would've been held in higher esteem instead of just locking them away in a cave somewhere, y'know? But, you're absolutely right, a lot of the material completely contradicts what is stated in the bible itself - especially the NT. With the original 5 books of the OT, it tends to expand on a lot of ideas that are really only touched upon. Also, the book of deuteronomy (sp) was added centuries ago, when the chruch went back through many of the texts of the apocrypha that they had, and decided what should be cannonized and what should be exempt.

    But, then again, one cannot interpret any type of religious text if it's specific and spells out how things are to be done - that's been a blessing of the NT itself for the last millenia in that it can be so vague at times that interpretation is up to the reader.


    TBH, I take all english translations of the bible with a grain of salt. Although I don't know hebrew, which was the original language of the OT, it's a very difficult language to translate, and phrases can be interpreted sometimes in a few different ways. That leaves a massive chance of things being interpreted in a way differently than originally intended. Also, the church has removed a lot of material over the centuries as well, and edited many of the passages also.



    Funny thing, too, is that the OT more closely resembles an "instruction manual" to the ways of the Kabballah and early esoteric teachings of gnosticism.
  6. russianboy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,800 (0.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    90
    Candle, are you saying that you are superior than me, FreedomEclipse, btarunr, and all the other members on TPU that do not worship the same faith/worship at all?
  7. GSG-9

    GSG-9

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,681 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    144
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Mn
    It may be easy to understand but if you use NKJ you know where it falls short


    They do have lots of things in common open your eyes. They all use the Torah as a base, they both came from the Jewish faith.
  8. candle_86 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,916 (1.40/day)
    Thanks Received:
    233
    Eclipes i to once was in a church like that, i encourage and impolore you to rethink that choice, find a smaller church, or even if you can find one a cowboy church these tend to be very small and informal. I also encourage you to read the bible and seek your soul for the truths that are there. You said you wanted to belive that was god speaking to your heart, do not turn away when you are but so close. Take the time to listen to what he speaks to your heart. I implore you to do this, not for me, not for god, but for your eternal soul. You know the consequnces if you do not, and i would hate to see someone as bright as you, turn your nose from god because of a bad church. Give him another shot, and listen.
  9. candle_86 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,916 (1.40/day)
    Thanks Received:
    233
    as a base, but the end result is diffrent. Jesus is my savior he is there prophet, and i do not recognize mohommad at all. There are key diffrences to make them very diffrent.
  10. candle_86 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,916 (1.40/day)
    Thanks Received:
    233
    I am no better than any of you, the one thing that seperates us, is i know where im going do you?
  11. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    7,043 (2.71/day)
    Thanks Received:
    909
    Location:
    Sector ZZ₉ Plural Z Alpha
    to follow the ideals of "americanism" - that's a founding principle.
  12. das müffin mann

    das müffin mann New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,759 (1.52/day)
    Thanks Received:
    335
    Location:
    Appleton, WI
    atm im going to the bathroom, then tomorrow to school, then rugby practice, then probably a very long nap

    i personally don't believe in life after death, our bodies will decompose, give various nutrients back to the earth so on and so forth, well in my case im donating my body to science, maybe some good can come out of that, i wont need it
  13. GSG-9

    GSG-9

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,681 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    144
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Mn
    They are not the same but they are similar, i am not trying to prove them one in the same but they have the same root and several similarities as well as very distinct traits that are unique to each.
  14. russianboy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,800 (0.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    90
    I know very well where I am going.

    Today: Bed
    Tomorrow: School
    Next Year: More School
    Next Decade: Complete education and get job, hopefully as musician.
    Next several decades: Live life, then settle down.

    After that, I go to the grave, leaving everything I have done to my successors. I become the basic elements that make up life, and my body goes back into the soil.

    Now that you have answered my question, I do have a follow-up.

    If you believe that you are not better than anyone, why do you constantly put down others? For I would think that you think yourself mighty high to insult me, my friends, family, and way of life on multiple facets. Please do provide an explanation. I would love it.
  15. GSG-9

    GSG-9

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,681 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    144
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Mn
    Someone before said things in the bible had been added and removed. I disagree, the Catholic church is not the Christian church, and the Apocrypha was never used by a luthern/baptist (etc) church. Yes I am aware those denominations came from the Catholic faith, but it was still never used by them.

    I find the Greek and the Hebrew to have quite specific wording, for a while i enjoyed comparing the text in its original Greek to the translations we have.
  16. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    7,043 (2.71/day)
    Thanks Received:
    909
    Location:
    Sector ZZ₉ Plural Z Alpha
    Oh, I'm sure greek is fairly specific; but I've heard a lot about how hebrew translations of the bible can easily be interpreted correctly.

    But, I don't know hebrew, I can't read it nor speak it, so I can't in good faith stout that as fact.

    Although, as to things in the bible having been changed/manipulated by the vatican, that's quite possible in itself considering how long the dark ages lasted, and for centuries masses were held in latin as well. The church used it's power to keep people in line, and to influence feudal politics between countries. For the longest time, the church was as corrupt as any modern government.
  17. GSG-9

    GSG-9

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,681 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    144
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Mn
    I dont know either, when I was in middle school my mother had a study bible that had the greek word that was used in the margin, you could then look it up and see what it meant. The study bible only did this for the greek in the new testament and not for the old testament hebrew


    Very true
  18. largon New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,778 (0.82/day)
    Thanks Received:
    432
    Location:
    Tre, Suomi Finland
    I stopped believing in fairy tales when I was ~10.
    :p

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  19. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,597 (5.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,236
    as much as I wanted to stay with it it wasnt possible as I went to college that was 1hr 15mins train ride everyday & it finished late so I had to surrender my post as lead/rhythem guitarist :p

    I think as far as truth goes I no longer have any set belief or opinion. - I live for who i choose to live for & not what others tell me to live for ;) sorry if it sounds a little rude or condesending even.

    Ive been through bad patch after bad patch & finally came out of it with the ideology that only YOU can make a difference in your lives. no matter if theres a god or not - you can pray & read the bible all you want but then there are those who will make things happen rather then wait for pipe dreams known as miricles

    If there really is a god then I have a lot to thank him & hate him for at the same time. there is no best but then is no worst
  20. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    24,324 (8.42/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,778
    No, no they aren't. Christianity itself is not hypocritical. It's the spinoff denominations and individuals themselves that are hypocritical.

    I am a Christian, btw. But I don't go around belittling other religions or their people. I leave them to their path. I believe it isn't the proper path, but as a person with free will, it's their choice to make. Live and let live I say. Sinners will pay in the end, by the judgment of God.
  21. Triprift

    Triprift

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    7,185 (2.93/day)
    Thanks Received:
    915
    Location:
    Adelaide Australia
    Spoken like a true pessimist :p
  22. WhiteLotus

    WhiteLotus

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    6,532 (2.53/day)
    Thanks Received:
    847


    Finally someone who sees things the same way I do! some people call that the circle of life.

    And Candle have you ever spoken to anyone of another religion in a friendly manner, to learn that their ways are similar to yours? All religions teach to love the neighbour, basically to get along with one another and do good things.
    Seriously candle i said it in another post - read the God Delusion. If you believe in your faith so much a couple days out of your time to read another point of view wont matter at all.
  23. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    28,410 (11.30/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,615
    Location:
    Hyderabad, India
    :twitch:
    Breath of fresh air. Can't believe you're just 13~14 and speak so mature.
  24. WhiteLotus

    WhiteLotus

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    6,532 (2.53/day)
    Thanks Received:
    847
    Also, sparked by btarunr recent crazy thread picture, why is Jesus always portrayed to be a westerner. In EVERY picture i have seen him in he is a westerner, wtf. he is an arab!
  25. GSG-9

    GSG-9

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,681 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    144
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Mn
    The reason Jesus is always Eurpean in artwork is because the artests try to portray him as relatable (speaking of Renaissance art). His ethnisity is not the only thing that is not historicly accurate in the work. Many times the clothing of the subject is the current style of the day and not that of the timeperiod being illustrated.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page