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It's now legal in the US to Crack Games, and rip DVD movies!

Discussion in 'General Software' started by DaMulta, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

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    Along with the Jail Break now being legal for the iPhone. There is also other things that are now legal to do that were not legal. Below list the few new things like being about to make non commercial videos out of your dvds that you purchased. Also now being able to remove DRM from games without having to pirate the game. This is big big news.

    The only thing that this did not cover was console modding, and I did see a story about someone being arrested for it today. Yet, I could see it maybe covered with this ruling today. Pirating games is not the only thing useful about cracking consoles.


    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/drm-dmca-jailbreaking-unlocking-iphone,10944.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2010
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  2. DanishDevil

    DanishDevil

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    Interesting. And bahahaha dongle. Love that word.
     
  3. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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    I think the mod chips are against the law with console.

    But last i heard about ripping movies and games is legal as long as you own the original. Even D2D your allowed to put the data on a DVD if you wanted. They forever changing the shit and good luck in reinforcing it lol.

    EDIT: In the end if your backups done right you should not need to use a crack anyways
     
  4. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    This is old news. TPU has at least a couple threads on it. Here's the complete ruling:
    https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/dmca_2009/RM-2008-8.pdf

    This is not stipulated. Circumvention is not tantamount to removal.

     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2010
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  5. twilyth Guest

    But we're still waiting for a definition of fair use aren't we? I still can't legally backup DVD's right? Unless I'm going to say it's for some BS educational purpose or whatever.

    I guess it's still progress, but of the glacial sort.
     
  6. RejZoR

    RejZoR

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    It's moving in the right direction. I just hope they would force them to remove activation limits for game copy protections someday. It's so freakin retarded to be so damn careful how you install and remove game otherwise you waste activations. It's just pissing me off. To be honest, i wouldn't mind activations if you could activate product unlimited times without any worries of ever getting blocked because of that.

    Though in our country, it is supposedly legal to create 1 backup copy of any kind of digital work for personal use. So basically if you buy a DVD, you can make 1 backup of that DVD legally and use it yourself only. Just in case if disc gets scratched or otherwise damaged. But i haven't checked if anything changed regarding this, being our government is usually a stupid sheep following the EU herd. Whatever nonsense they recommend, our politics jump on it. Good thing is that EU hasn't released any too idiotic laws so far (thankfully).
     
  7. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    basically, you can rip movies so long as you dont make money from it... which is how it should be.
     
  8. twilyth Guest

    I think mst people believe that and a practical matter, I'm not worried about SWAT tossing in a flash-bang and breaking down my door. But the thing is that there isn't a solid legal basis for that as far as I know. And that's what pisses people off. I mean, if I want to crack a DRM lock, i'm going to do it - f*ck 'em. But a lot of people are afraid to and right now, we can't really point to any case law or statute and say, 'no, no, it's really ok', because we just don't know for certain.
     
  9. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    This has been the subject of discussion for a long time and I'm hoping that I can put it to rest in a few swift strokes.

    Firstly, copying a movie has long been considered fair use provided:
    1) the movie in question was legally purchased
    2) the backup is used in a non-infringing way.

    However, and this is where the misunderstanding originates, circumvention of a DRM system is still illegal unless the person circumventing has reasonable grounds for believing that circumvention is necessary to fulfill the purpose of the use in the following instances:
    (i) Educational uses by college and university professors and by college and university film and media studies students;
    (ii) Documentary filmmaking;
    (iii) Noncommercial videos

    (It should be noted here that this is copied directly from the most recent ruling by the Librarian of Congress, which is the subject of this thread.) Most of us will not fall under this exemption and it should not be considered tantamount to a backup; it's better thought of as a provision allowing for modifications of a copyrighted movie under very strict conditions.

    More complicated still, a recent ruling in MGE UPS SYSTEMS INC. v. GE CONSUMER AND INDUSTRIAL INC went on record with this statement:
    Merely bypassing a technological protection that restricts a user from viewing or using a work is insufficient to trigger the DMCA’s anti-circumvention provision. The DMCA prohibits only forms of access that would violate or impinge on the protections that the Copyright Act otherwise affords copyright owners.

    This appears to be an exemption, applicable in fair use instances, to DMCA section 1201(a)(1)(A), which prohibits circumventing access controls (DRM).

    So circumventing DRM in order to copy a movie is possible in a non-infringing way. However distribution of a means of circumvention is still illegal under section 1201(a)(2) and 1201(b) of the DMCA. That is to say, that you can circumvent a DRM system when creating a fair use copy of a movie, however it is illegal for anyone to give or sell you a tool that accomplishes this. If a person already has a means of circumvention then all of this is totally kosher.

    I'm not a copyright lawyer, or even a lawyer, just an interested party with a fast internet connection.
     
  10. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    its stuff like that, that makes this whole thing stupid.
     
  11. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    I sincerely concur.

    I think I should add that upon review of 1201(a)(2), it is not just illegal for an entity to give or sell you a circumvention tool, but it is also explicitly illegal for you to download or otherwise obtain one as this would clearly fall under "import" of a circumvention tool.

    The reason why I mention this is because it reminds me of the "file-sharing" laws of olde which made it illegal to upload but not download. Unfortunately the DMCA clearly shows that both download and upload operations are illegal when the subject is a circumvention tool.

    However . . . The DMCA does allow an exemption for a circumvention tool if it can be proved that a circumvention tool has substantial non-infringing use. I have yet to see a tool accomplish this in court but it stands to reason that one can legally obtain a circumvention tool provided it is relatively new and has not been brought to trial yet.
     
  12. Perseid New Member

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    Wow. That's messed up. Wouldn't that make DeCSS and AnyDVD legal since you can use it just to watch encrypted discs? I thought the whole point of the DMCA was to eliminate the 'it can be used for legal reasons' excuse.
     
  13. Wrigleyvillain

    Wrigleyvillain PTFO or GTFO

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    So this means DVD X Copy is legal again and no longer specifically banned?
     
  14. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    Unfortunately I don't really have all the information needed to answer this question. But in a nutshell, NO.

    It is my current understanding that section 1201(a)(2)(B) and 1201(b)(1)(B) of the DMCA leaves the burden of proving a substantial noninfringing use for a circumvention tool on the maker of said tool.

    Additionally in the case MGM Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd. the following opinion was made:
    "We hold that one who distributes a device with the object of promoting its use to infringe copyright, as shown by clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement, is liable for the resulting acts of infringement by third parties using the device, regardless of the device's lawful uses."

    Since the fundamental function of DVD copying tools is to circumvent protection mechanisms it would likely fall into the category of devices described by the aforementioned opinion. However there does appear to still be leeway in the manner of substantial noninfringing use even though I am unable to find a legal measure of substantial noninfringing use.

    I am seriously out of my comfort zone on this one.

    I sincerely doubt that was the point of the DMCA. If anything it is designed to secure profit channels for copyright holders (unofficially of course). Officially, Article I, section 8, clause 8 of the United States Constitution, it is "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries".
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2010
  15. wahdangun

    wahdangun New Member

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    so its mean right now real media can sell their copy dvd program, because it still retain the DRM,(because RealDVD, will rip your movie WITHOUT breaking the CSS encryption)

    i hope real can fast read this thing, and make real dvd available again
     
  16. twilyth Guest

    Leaving aside the DRM cracking issue for the moment, is there a statute or case law that explicitly gives us that right - to make backup copies of things we've purchased? I know that is the prevailing attitude on the part of most of the people I've seen comment on this, but my impression is that it is still just an educated guess rather than black letter law.

    I hope it has been resolved - finally. I just saying if you have authoritative sources, I would appreciate hearing about them.

    Thank you.
     
  17. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    But of course it's law. It's called Fair use and it has been law since 1976, see 17 U.S.C. § 107.

    For more information check out the wikipedia entry:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2010
  18. twilyth Guest

    It says
    Backups don't fall under any of those exceptions.

    As I recall, the MPAA postition is that backups are NOT a 'fair use' under the statute.

    So is there case law that says I can back up DVD's that I own? Because that is clearly not part of the statute as far as I can tell.

    For example:

    MPAA Says Making Even “One Copy” of a DVD is Illegal

    Also see here for the explicit claim that backups are not considered fair use.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2010
  19. PVTCaboose1337

    PVTCaboose1337 Graphical Hacker

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    Glad to see what I have been doing for a while is legal. Anyway, not that it matters or I care. My contingency plan in case of computer seizure is 1 pound of thermite over my hard drive.
     
  20. Solaris17

    Solaris17 Creator Solaris Utility DVD

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    thats all i got out of that.
     
  21. douglatins

    douglatins

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    Wow, major breakthrough in consumer rights! I think that is awesome. Also thermite great stuff.
    See it like this if you own a stereo you could mod it to get better sound and features, same with game consoles, etc.
     
  22. Solaris17

    Solaris17 Creator Solaris Utility DVD

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    im going to laugh at all the people who read this and go out and DL cracked games rip all their videos mod their xbox etc. That is NOT what this is saying. Like the iphone was origianlly tied to this. yup the people who cracked their firmware were within their right. they were doing it to see if they could/how it worked. but jailbreaking your iphone ipod etc is NOT legal. People read this and immediately think omfg awesome. Its a step in the right direction but you look pompus when you tell all your buds stealing MP3's is legal as long as you convert them or some BS if you read this carefully it seems like their giving freedom and they are. but they are incredibly STRICT on what they now allow you to do. So much infact that i kinda dont see how this applies to us normal PC users at all. unless your some kind of college professor.
     
  23. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    It says "such as", not "explicitly falling under the following categories of". There is leeway in fair use, which is one of the reasons making a backup copy is such murky territory. Essentially if you made a copy of your legally purchased DVD, then locked the backup in your closet with your receipt and never lost or broke your original copy then you'd have a fairly ironclad case in court. (This is, of course, assuming that somehow magically you'd ended up in court over this.) The MPAA would have a very difficult time proving your actions had not been consistent with fair use.

    I've seen stuff about transient forms of copying (like having a file on your HD), which are much less likely to be considered fair use. Even the data stream of a movie on its way to your television is actually a form of reproduction that is carefully stipulated in copyright law.

    The MPAA is entitled to their interpretation, but I haven't read any rulings that incontrovertibly confirm or deny the MPAA's position. As I said earlier, fair use is open to interpretation and invites many cases and decisions.

    The MPAA is free to say whatever the hell they want. It doesn't make what they say true, it's what the court's to decide that matters. Unfortunately the court's didn't decide in the RealDVD case, because they settled.

    Real Networks settled, there was no decision in this case. They were bullied out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  24. twilyth Guest

    But earlier you had said:

    I read that to mean that you were saying for a fact that backups were, without doubt, fair use.

    I thought it was important to point out that the law is indeed murky and that even something as innocent as making a backup could be considered a violation. That's important because even though it may only be the opinion of the MPAA, they're the ones with the lawyers.
     
  25. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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    The law is murky to the extent that the MPAA can sue someone out of existence (yay capitalism!). If you made a copy of a DVD and adhered to the two points I mentioned the MPAA would have a very difficult time winning in court, provided you had as much walking around money and free time as they do. This seems to be consistent with rulings regarding other types of recordings.

    Anyway, I'm absolutely spent on this subject and I think it's been beaten beyond the grave. The maggots feasting on the corpse are already dead. Several trees have grown and died here. Amazingly though there is a group of lawyers in the corner and they're still working... They're soulless people and they smell like cabbage. A couple of them are talking about how if they weren't lawyers they'd be investment bankers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010

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