Looking to build a new PC - discussion

[Flash]

So I have decided to build a new PC. My current one (see specs) is getting quite old.

However, there are several factors atm that hold me back.

-RAM prices are very high. One year ago when I was thinking about getting a new computer I was imagining getting a 32GB setup with an SSD and disable page file. However, it seems now a 16GB is roughly ~150$ when 6 months ago you could get some for under 100$.
-SSD seems to be in the same boat. Last summer there were several deals where you could get a M4 256GB for ~170$ or a 512GB for ~360$. Now there seem to be no such deals with the price hovering to 1:1 ratio.
-ATI 9000 series come out in Oct. From what I noticed prices for graphic cards do not fall down for the latest generation, meaning the price at launch will normally stay. Also at launch you can get cards with OEM PCB, which, if I'm not mistaken, are unlocked and allow you to overclock nicely. I would like to buy a new 9000 series if I'm going for a new PC, rather than getting a 8000 series now, without OEM PCB.

Considering that RAM prices seem to either stay, or go up even higher, I tend to think I should just build a new rig minus the graphic card.

My intent is gaming.

Here is what I was thinking at the moment:
CPU: Intel Core i5 4670K Unlocked Quad Core 3.4GHZ Processor LGA1150 Haswell 6MB Cache Retail - 240$

Mobo: MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Z87 3PCI-E16 4PCI-E1 CrossFireX/SLI SATA3 4K HDMI USB3.0 - 195$

GD45 as alternative at 165$?

RAM: Kingston KHX1600C10D3B1K2/16G 16GB Kit 2X8GB 1600MHz DDR3 240PIN DIMM CL10 1.5V - 130$ (save 20$).
As alternative: Kingston HyperX Blu Black Series 16GB 2X8GB DDR3-1600 CL10 DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit - 140$ (save 10$)
Or: Corsair Vengeance Black CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10 16GB 2X8GB DDR3-1600 CL10 1.5V Dual Channel Memory Kit - 155$

VIDEO: Continue to use my 4870 until Oct then buy a 9000 series? Or buy a XFX 7870 (210$)?

PSU: Use my current one
Case: Use my current one
HDD: Use my current one? An M4 256 SSD is 210-230 depending on model (SSD1/2/3). Are just faster load times worth it?

Reasons:
I have chosen the Intel since it seems it performs better than the AMD alternative (AMD FX-8350 8 Core Processor) from what I read.

I have read a lot of good comments on this forum at least about the MSI Z87 GD65. It also has the newer LGA1150 socket, tho as I know Intel, it will most likely get changed in 1-2 years, compared to AMD's which they keep the same socket for a long time. I have also noticed the MSI Z87 Mpower Max which costs 250$, but not sure what it has extra over the GD 45/65 gaming series.

Ram as I mentioned went up a lot. I'd like to settle for a 16GB as 32GB is too expensive. I think I might still be able to disable memory page with 16GB? Also I am not sure if I should get 2x8 or 4x4. Since I doubt the prices will go down for DDR3 (even after DDR4 comes out - I remember when DDR 2 actually went up as DDR3 came into the market) I'm thinking maybe 4x4 would be a better option because of the looser timings (CL9 instead of 10)? Only problem with 4x4 is shutting myself off if I do decide to go for 32GB in the future.
From the 3 rams I have selected, they all seem the same (DDR3-1600 CL10) so I'd go with Kingston blue since it's the least expensive (or whatever is on sale)?

Video card as I mentioned not sure if I should wait for the 9000 series and get the latest generation or buy something like a 7870 for 210$ and see how well it holds for the games I play. I'd like some feedback in regards to this.

Sorry for the long post, but any comments on what to buy and when to buy. I can wait a few months, but I'd like a new system by December.

 

[BarbaricSoul]

you forgot one major piece of information we need before we can begin the discussion.

What do you use your computer for?

 

[Flash]

My intent is gaming.

My reason why I want a new rig is because most games now start to struggle on my current setup, even games that worked acceptable a year ago (continuous updates and improvements)

 

[BarbaricSoul]

a couple points first

Motherboard- Personally, I'd get the MSI GD65 board if I was to build a Haswell system. It's great over-clocking plus having more options than more expensive board likes the ASUS Hero board(the GD65 has a mSATA port that the hero board lacks). Then add the experience I have had with my current GD80 board, which has been nothing but great, GD65 all the way.

SSD- You might not be able to get the M4 as cheap as you used to, but you can get the Samsung 840 256gb drive for $165 and it has comparable speeds to the M4. Samsung's 840 PRO is considered the best SSD right now, and the regular 840 is just as good, just not quite as fast as the PRO series.

RAM- for gaming, you don't need 16 gigs. I haven't used more than the 8 gigs that I have gaming.

Video Card- buy a new card when you upgrade everything else. A 4870 512mb card is going to be such a bottle neck paired with a Haswell CPU that other than map loading times being faster, when gaming you probably won't notice a difference between the new system and your current system. You can get a 7950 for $200 these days. I would go that route and upgrade when the HD9000/GTX800 cards are released if you feel the need.

Here's is what I suggest you buy-

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1pvGf

 

[Frag_Maniac]

1. You don't need Haswell, and with your current PSU you won't get the power saving it has either. Haswell is at best 3-5% performance increase. It's mostly designed for low power and built in graphics, which is more appropriate for mobile than desktop use. You can get a 3570k for $198 at Tiger right now, and it's plenty good and might even OC higher. Haswells run very cool at idle due to the low power feature, but hotter at load and don't OC as well so you lose that 5% and then some.

2. Do you really NEED a Z87 MB that supports both SLI and Crossfire, have you ever even USED SLI or Crossfire? You can get decent Z77 MBs for under $100, take a look at the AsRocks. Their Pro4 is only $100 and even supports Crossfire if you really want it.

3. You don't need 16GB RAM for gaming, 8GB is ample.

4. If you're open to points 1-3, that saves you about $165. Add that to the $210 you were considering on the mediocre 7870, and you could get both these, which would give you MUCH more (over 20%) graphics power and WAY faster (about 4 times the MB/s) OS and program speed.

SAPPHIRE 100351SR Radeon HD 7970 3GB 384-bit GDDR5...
Mushkin Enhanced Chronos MKNSSDCR60GB-7 Solid Sta...

Add another $20 if you want an affordable CPU cooler that will easily let you OC to 4GHz comfortably, which is all you need for one 7970.

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatp...

So in a nutshell, you're soaking a lot of wasted money into more RAM than you need, and a new CPU standard who's marginal performance gains are completely lost and even surpassed when OCing, only to settle for a much weaker GPU than you could be getting, which does the lion's share of the work load in a gaming PC.

 

[Flash]

A 4670K is the same price as a 3570K. Both have the same clock and Cache. Is the Ivy more performant than a Haswell? Since the Haswell is more newer technology, I assumed I should go with that instead, especially since the price is the same, even if the performance is the same.

For motherboard, I have been told numerous times not to skimp on the mobo. I might not need crossfire, but I'm sure the buses are wider and the build is more solid than a random <100$ board. I just read a lot of very good reviews about the MSI Z87 GD65. Also I would like to stick with MSI for mobos (or Gigabyte if not MSI). I don't want to touch ASUS.

In regards to video cards, again I am a bit skeptic to buy any other brand other than XFX, MSI or Gigabyte when I'm considering support. ASUS, Saphire, HIS, etc from what I know are Taiwanese companies, which means I need to internationally ship the card if I need to RMA.


I agree going Ivy Bridge if performance is better than Haswell since the price is the same, as long as there is an equivalent MSI Z87 (MSI Z77 maybe?) in terms of quality. I really don't mind skimping on a motherboard.

7970 or even 7950 I agree is a much better investment. But would the 9970 or 9950 not cost similar? I'm really debating wheter I should wait another 2 months and get the 9000 series, which will provide better performance, and a OEM PCB which from history if I'm not mistaken, allows much more flexibility in overclocking. I'm assuming the pricing will be competitive to compete with NVidia's 700 series

 

[Frag_Maniac]

A 4670K is the same price as a 3570K. Both have the same clock and Cache. Is the Ivy more performant than a Haswell? Since the Haswell is more newer technology, I assumed I should go with that instead, especially since the price is the same, even if the performance is the same.

I don't know where you're located, but it's not the same price if you go by best net prices here in the US. Look at Tiger Direct, they have the 3570k for $198. Too many people are worried about getting the latest CPU/MB tech, even though it often causes them to compromise on the part most important to gaming, the GPU. More expensive MBs don't automatically mean better build quality either, you're typically just paying for more features, and I'm willing to bet you won't even use most of them. I also said nothing of ASUS, I advocated an AsRock MB.

XFX are good for PSUs, but there's a fair number of horror stories on their GPU support. I've personally had poor support with the last MSI GPU I bought too (660 Ti). The thing exhibited strange compat problems with my TV that the GTS 250 I had prior and the 7970 I have now do not. They never issued a support ticket number or offered to RMA it for inspection. I was getting conflicting opinions with each of their staff and I had to reiterate everything each time I called. When I finally had Newegg refund it and commented about it on their product page, MSI jumped in and insisted ther was something wrong with my PC, while at the same time admitting the GPU could be defective. Out of the ones you advocated I'd trust Gigabyte the most, but Sapphire are in Canada, not Taiwan, and they give pretty good support via email.

Again, CURRENT prices aren't the same at all on the 4670k and 3570k if you look for best prices. The 3570k has been out for a while, so naturally there are better deals on it.

If you can wait for the next AMD series you may indeed wind up with better bang for buck, if not on the next gen, on a sale price on current gen. Sounds like the next gen will be awesome, but at the prices you're talking you probably won't be getting a 9970, esp if you stick with that CPU and MB, at least not with what you've mentioned for a budget so far.

 

[BarbaricSoul]

I looked at Tiger Direct, they have the 3570k for $219, not $198.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ffiliateID=8BacdVP0GFs-hC0hbC2EL3WoKhCVo3Un8A

The 4670k in my build suggestion is part of a combo, saving $28. That combo savings can be applied to the 4670k cost, so the 4670 is only costing $211. I'd have no problem suggesting IB, or even SB for that matter, if it meant a decent savings, but it doesn't in this case. I used the web site PC Part Picker which lists the prices of the hardware picked from the top E-tailers sites, including Tiger Direct. BTW, Amazon has the 4670k listed for $219. Same price as the lowest priced 3570k without doing in-store pickup. You can get the 4670k from Microcenter's in-store pick-up for $199, while the 3570k would cost $189 for in-store pickup.

While I have had no problems with my XFX video card, I have heard of people having issues with them, so may want to steer clear of them for now. As for picking a 7970 over the 7950, personally I would not pay $319 for a 7970 when I can get a 7950 for $200. The performance difference is just not worth the extra $120 IMHO. For price/performance, you can not beat a $200 HD7950.

If you want to try to save a little money, back the motherboard down to the G45, and change the Corsair H60 to a Cooler Master Hyper 212.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1q1eA

 

[Vario]

7950 boost power color is $200 on newegg right now, you wont do any better than that! If you are near a microcenter, buy your cpu and motherboard there, its substantially cheaper. Also, my xeon 1230v2 is a real workhorse, bought that at MC for $190, its essentially an i7 3770.

 

[Sasqui]

If the the CPU prices are close, go with the 4670. Overclocking is not as easy with Haswell as it was with IB. So if your hoping for a 4.5GHz overclock, it's probably not going to happen, unless you have really good watercooling.

Take a peek at my system specs, I have a 3570k @4.7Ghz and a 7870. The 7870 playing FC3 at max setting 1920x1280 is good, but slight frame rate drops here and there so you might want to consider something a little faster. I'm happy with what I got though. You probably don't need 16GB of memory, 8GB should do just about everything justice and you can upgrade later if you need.

 

[BarbaricSoul]

7950 boost power color is $200 on newegg right now, you wont do any better than that! If you are near a microcenter, buy your cpu and motherboard there, its substantially cheaper. Also, my xeon 1230v2 is a real workhorse, bought that at MC for $190, its essentially an i7 3770.

that's the card in my two build suggestions

BTW, that price is only good until the 12th, so you better hurry up and buy

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I looked at Tiger Direct, they have the 3570k for $219, not $198.

It's a refurbed, or in the case of a CPU, returned item. Has 2 month vs 3 yr warranty, but you have 2 months to test it and see if it's working properly. Still a good deal IMO.

Most of the time items like this are just returned because someone decided to get a Haswell or something. This is still a way better deal than a 4670k for $240 if you ask me.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2890035

 

[BarbaricSoul]

Hehh, I rather spend $220 on a brand new one than $200 on one that was returned for whatever reason, but I guess that is a option.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CO8TBOW/?tag=tec06d-20

 

[Frag_Maniac]

It's not hard to tell within a whole 2 months if a CPU is up to snuff, really not a big deal.

 

[Flash]

Thanks for the feedback.

I should have mentioned I do reside in Canada. So a lot of the places recommended for price are not really available for me unless I border shop. That wouldn't really be to troublesome for me, but if I would have a RMA request, I think that would be more complicated.

Hence why I mentioned both Ivi and Hessell prices are the same for me. (240$) I also did not know Sapphire has a RMA center in Canada. Is this accurate if I would need to RMA?

Barbaric's build http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1pvGf is close to what I currently have in mind.

However, would not the corsair or patriot be a better brand pick for ram? And what about Powercolor, do they have RMA centers in Canada or US? Or for the -50$ sale I should just take the chance? I could buy it from the US and ship it to the border if no other 7950 can be had close to that price

I do make most of my shopping from NCIX since they are Canada based and I have couple of stores close to me. I just go there and pick them up.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I also did not know Sapphire has a RMA center in Canada. Is this accurate if I would need to RMA?

It shows a Warranty/RMA email contact for Canada on this page, though it's the same as the US one.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/company/?cid=2&psn=000302&lid=1

"Canada RMA/Warranty service:
Email:rma@althon.com"

 

[BarbaricSoul]

would not the corsair or patriot be a better brand pick for ram?

G-Skill makes good RAM. I've used G-Skill RAM just as much as I have used both Corsair and Crucial RAM combined. Never had a single issue with it. I'd suggest just getting whatever brand is less expensive so long as it is DDR3 1600 with a CAS latency of no more than 9.