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Mantle API presentation by AMD, DICE and Oxide - AMD Summit 2013

Discussion in 'Games' started by RuskiSnajper, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    No. That driver was from Toshiba and has nothing to do with the next driver. The driver itself is older than the latest beta on AMD's site.
     
  2. xenocide

    xenocide

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    Ah my mistake. I apparently skimmed over that part.
     
  3. natr0n

    natr0n

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    Everything happens today.
     
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  4. broken pixel

    broken pixel

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    @ 4:00am EST you get the BF4 Mantle patch, the AMD Mantle driver is?
     
  5. BiggieShady

    BiggieShady

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  6. the54thvoid

    the54thvoid

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    It'll be good to see the actual FPS graphs from those %'s. For those on APU's and high end GFX it'll be a massive boost but I'd like to know what the FPS are in the first instance. How much oomph do you get with a Kaveri and 290X boosted with Mantle, versus (for example) a 4930k and 290X or more flamebait worthy, a 4930k and a 780ti? I'm on a 3930k at 4.4GHz so I expect I'd see very low returns with Mantle (if I had a GCN card).
    What we all want to see (or some really don't want after all the trash talk :rolleyes:) is with a powerfully specced CPU, will Mantle make a significant impact on fps in a 290x versus 780ti scenario?

    And FTR, where's MSI's 290X Lightning at?
     
  7. KingPing

    KingPing

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    The Star swarm benchmark is out now on Steam, it's Dx11 capable too.
     
  8. BiggieShady

    BiggieShady

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    Define significant ... article mentions 10% frame rate increase on high end cpus, and 40% frame rate increase on kaveri in BF4. With multi gpu setups where you are rarely gpu bound, it should be similar increase for all kinds of cpus.
     
  9. TheHunter

    TheHunter

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    Yep, so far it looks like DirectX11 is limited to avg ~ 3800 units, doesnt matter which gpu.


    With Mantle +10000 units
     
  10. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    So essentially on really low end systems which no one around here really runs theres a huge performance gain. However on hardware thats of the high end or enthusiast class theres about a 10% gain?...... I could have sworn i said maybe 20% at best..... and here it seems to be 10% which can be offset with a GPU overclock. Mantle does not seem that impressive. Then again BF4 is not the best choice for Mantle anyway. an RTS would have made more sense. The Star Swarm benchmark is interesting but its not a game. Lets see Star Craft / Total War / Company of Heroes / World in Conflict / etc etc etc with Mantle. the benefit in those games would actually be noticeable.
     
  11. TheHunter

    TheHunter

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    Any kind of boost is welcome imo even if its minimal.



    And from what I saw 7970 can have avg 25% boost..
     
  12. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    25% on an AMD CPU

    on an Intel CPU it seems to be 7.5% to 10%

    it just puts AMD and Intel on equal footing but does not impact playability that much. We have seen larger performance increases from simple VGA driver updates lol.

    • Core i7-4960X CPU + R9 290X GPU
      • 1080p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 9.2% improvement with Mantle
      • 1600p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 10% improvement with Mantle
    • Core i7-4960X CPU + R7 260X GPU
      • 1080p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 2.7% improvement
      • 1600p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 1.4% improvement
    • A10-7700K CPU + R9 290X GPU
      • 1080p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 40.9% improvement
      • 1600p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 17.3% improvement
    • A10-7700K CPU + R7 260X GPU
      • 1080p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 8.3% improvement
      • 1600p, Low Preset: 16.8% improvement
    So from what I can see here is that the performance change from Mantle on a high end system are less then what can be achieved through overclocks and traditional driver optimizations.

    Low end system getting such ahuge boost is nice but then how many people here are gonna buy a A10 7700k and pair it with a $600 GPU. Even you have a 4770K so at best if you got a 290X with 10% boost it would offer enough performance to be on par with a 780Ti in BF4.

    so..... yea not really that impressive. 290X ends up out pacing a stock 780Ti but aftermarket 780 Ti beats the aftermarket 290X even with Mantle. At worst case senario they Tie. Yes AMD is cheaper but I would still take the Nvidia card at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
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  13. Crap Daddy

    Crap Daddy

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    With an AMD CPU.
     
  14. BiggieShady

    BiggieShady

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    Exactly. All that Mantle does now is open the possibilities for developers. We can't expect to see full benefits until whole new generation of games gets designed with wider constraints in mind. Even then it will be less performance benefits and more eye candy ... there will be situation where game's DX11 mode looks worse because, for example, "very high" setting for view distance in DX11 mode is 2 km and in mantle mode it's 10 km.
     
  15. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    Thats all well and good and I have said that all along but the trolls here including the one who started the thread like to continually tell me I am wrong and have no damn idea whats going on. Its honestly a joke we have laughed about in the TPU teamspeak for awhile now.

    Mantle wont change anything anytime soon yet the believers are as bad as the beliebers in their unflinching devotion that its inclusion in BF4 means instant success.

    Lets face it A10 7700k + 290x works well in BF4
    now lets take a look at the entire Steam / Origin / GOG library and realize its a drop in the ocean right now. It has no meaning Mantle wont matter for a number of years. When it does matter the current implementation of GCN will be much like the HD 5000 series is now. Old and nearly forgotten.
     
  16. TheHunter

    TheHunter

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    Then you two didnt see this yet..




    straight from battlelog.
     
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  17. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Command & Conquer: Generals 2

    That's the only big RTS title coming up I can think of that is likely to support Mantle.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  18. BiggieShady

    BiggieShady

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    Funny enough, AMD team addressed that exact issue when presenting Mantle saying they have targeted right level of API abstraction to allow them two things: to make it work with next versions of GCN, and to make it work with competitors GPUs. Essentially they said wait for these two things to happen :D
     
  19. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    My point is performance wise it wont matter.

    oh wow so AMD fixed Crossfire X with Mantle...... huh thats not surprising in the least. They needed to change how Crossfire worked at a base level to fix it. so of course mantle allows xfire to work better but again how many buy 2x $600-700 GPUs because righ tnow the 290X is $700 and the 290 is $500+ so still $1000-1400 and the only game that benefits is BF4 a Game that a single gpu maxes without issue at 1200p no problem. I see the benefits I just don't care they don't offer enough change to make them look better its all specific situations.

    They picked BF4 because its market presence is huge. Sadly an FPS is not the best way to show off improved CPU utilization.

    again Star Craft / Total War / Company of Heroes / etc are better options for showing marked gains with a new API. BF4 just wasnt that bottlenecked. The frame pacing aspect is a nice change but generally it just puts them closer to and on par with Nvidia which good but not mind blowing.

    As for waiting for support from Nvidia sure we can wait not that big a deal but so far BF4 and Thief which are big mantle titles are a MESS.

    At this point Thief is shaping up to be a flop. and BF4 is broken still so its a better running game thats still broken lol.

    You could say AMD has continued to be AMD with a launch that offers hope but really just doesn't live up the hype train.
     
  20. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    They picked BF4 because DICE said "yes".
     
  21. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    That to but doesnt change the fact its a paltry 9-10% which considering BF4 performance means the 290x is now = 780Ti in BF4 and they both cost the same on Newegg. So....... not really impressive haha.
     
  22. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't care what cards cost. Those with cards already get a free boost, be it small or large to work with. It's something... and it's free.
     
  23. TheHunter

    TheHunter

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    Yawn..

    Not worth the energy to argue with diehard nv fanboys,
    laterz.
     
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  24. Crap Daddy

    Crap Daddy

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    I remember an AMD rep saying that with mantle the 290x will dwarf the Titan. How things change in a few months. Nevertheless we should wait for some real benchies. Thing is it seems it's not enough you have an AMD card, now you also need an FX!
     
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  25. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    Yea it is funny how things change. I also love how everyones default reply is oh your a fanboy. When sadly I have probably owned more Radeon GPUs then the people claiming I am a fanboy lol.
    AMD
    4870x2
    5850 x2
    6950 x2
    6970 x2
    7970

    NVIDIA
    7800 GTX
    8800 GTS 640MB
    GTX 780

    lol oh well. I myself am not impressed granted I didnt believe the bs PR and expectations either. Single player gains are worthless in a game where the single player was worthless and people only played it to unlock weapons for MP. In two to three years Mantle has the ability to be amazing BF4 just doesn't benefit much from the API unless your PC is shit to begin with.
     

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