Microsoft to Strip Windows 7 of IE and WMP for Europe, Abiding by Laws

[Demon_82]

That's getting ridiculous. Can anyone, please get Spain out of the European Union?

 

[WhiteLotus]

Gimme a few pounds of C4 and a flight to brussels

jk

 

[imperialreign]

Don't know what build WMP is included in Windows 7 RC but it plays everything rather well. Well everything i chucked at it.

More than likely WMP 11 (although I can't say for sure, never used any of the WIN 7 RCs yet) . . .

usually, if MS had another version in the works, they'd have started putting up new pages on msdn and ms.support . . . as well as started releasing betas or RCs . . .

 

[newtekie1]

I'm just going to quote myself here:

And just for the record, I'm not saying I think Microsoft and Intel were in the right with their business practices, that isn't an issue here. What I'm saying is that if rules and regulations are going to be applied to Microsoft and Intel, they need to apply to everyone.

If Microsoft isn't allowed to bundle their media player software and Internet Browser with their OS, then Apple shouldn't be able to either, the whole iLife suite shouldn't be allowed to be bundled with OSX.

If Intel isn't allowed to make exclusivity deals, then AMD shouldn't either, and you better believe AMD made exlcusivity deals, or at least tried to.

What the EU has done is essentially taken the best basketball player on the court, and said "well you are too good, and are dominating the other players, so we want you to play with one hand and one leg".

It is utterly stupid. And yet, there are people that believe the judgements against Microsoft are a good thing.:shadedshu Well this is what those judgements have caused...

Oh, and further more, did you know the EU actually dictated what Microsoft could and couldn't call it's products after it made the judgement against them? Microsoft originally wanted to call these newer versions of Windows "Reduced Media" versions, and the EU told them they couldn't because it sounded to negative. What fucking idiots, the name describes exactly what the EU forced Microsoft to do, and it is too negative sounding? WTF?!?!

 

[phanbuey]

Bureaucracy fail.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Well maybe the Pirate party can send everyone a bootleg disk of IE8.

 

[mdm-adph]

I have to agree . . . IE7/IE8 are some of the most secure browsers I've used . . . the issue most people have with their security revolves around users not updating as needed. I'm confident enough in both IE7's and IE8's security that I routinely browse the i-netx with no firewall up, nor AV software running (not that I condone or support this practice . . .).

It's good that you don't condone it, because you should stop doing it, ASAP.

Most security problems involving IE do not merely involve IE not being updated as needed -- the core nature of the browser is flawed. IE is intermeshed completely with the Windows OS -- security problems with IE can thus affect your entire installation.

It's why it's such an easy vector for viruses -- no amount of patches by Microsoft is going to fix it. When a security problem is found in something like Firefox, most of the time it just affects your browser-based activities -- your cookies could be exposed, or your browser passwords, or something like that. When a security problem is found in IE, the entire OS can be compromised.

What Microsoft needs to do, IMO, is split IE's rendering engine away from the browser to use internally in their OS, and then adopt a new browser engine to use with the external internet.

Besides, IE displays 95% of the i-webz correctly . . . unlike other browsers . . . it might also have something to do with the fact that 95% of all websites are still designed with IE for IE.

Not really, no. Now, I'd agree that 95% of websites look fine in IE, but that's only because so many web developers have to hold back new technologies and better ways of coding, because IE won't support them.

It's like saying a wheelchair can get in 95% of buildings -- but that's only because most buildings have to make a special ramp so that handicapped people using a wheelchair can access them.

 

[Frederik S]

The European Commission clearly consists of certified morons. A completely irrelevant observation, but nonetheless spot on.

Did some one want cookies? oh sorry you can only have the ones without the topping!! Because with ones with the topping taste to good......

And I really like my cookies. I hope the EC never rule to impede foreign cookie makers ability to compete.

 

[WhiteLotus]

Don't know what build WMP is included in Windows 7 RC but it plays everything rather well. Well everything i chucked at it.

Jusy checked...

Build 12.0.7100.0

 

[gumpty]

Seriously! Come on, I'd be willing to bet that almost 100% of those who have the know how to build their own computer and will be buying Windows 7 OEM or retail will have the know how to put a .exe or .msi installer on a USB flash drive and run it!

For everyone else, they'll just buy an OEM pre-built computer which will already have a web browser installed so no issue there.

The only other cases are those who have Windows Vista and want to move to Windows 7 and will buy it retail/OEM. Well, since they probably won't understand how to do a full install, that only leaves the upgrade version, of which these IE stripped versions are not.

This is a GOOD thing! It means no IE GUI or WMP for those of us who, like me, never use these programs unless we are forced to (work...). Plus, I'm sure many OEMs will install browsers like Chrome or Firefox and let those who weren't already aware of alternative browsers be enlightened.

Ummm ... indeed. That's what I was getting at.

 

[Kitkat]

And Apple will sell no bundled software with OSX as well ?

And paid linux distros won't include a browser too ?

Riiiiight.



The EU is way past ridiculous. Having Win7 sold with no browser isn't benefiting customers - It is harming customers.

Like ive said in in previous post if antitrust was fair it would be 100000000X more insane. Why did my chevy come with a chevy engine what if i want a ferrrari engine in it?!?!?! WHY CANT I CHOOSE THE BRAND OF PENUT BUTTER ON MY NUTTERBUTTERS!!!!!!! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its rediculas weather or not u like Microsoft or not its INSANNEEEEEEEEEEEE. Arent they tired of reading about there own good deeds. They need to rename the department RANDOM FINES CAUSE WE FEEL LIKE IT. Cause the name antitrust has NOTHING to do with the job they do. Unless you dont trust them to leave you alone. Then it does...... Id be HORIFIED to have anything over there that got famous for ANY reason. THIS TOTALY RUINS ANY CHANCE OF EU GETTING SNUGGY AND YOU ARE TOTALY MISSINGOUT!! https://www.getsnuggie.com/flare/next

On a side not too it has nothing to do with u hating IE (which i think is fine) it has to do with WHAT they do. your ok with them doing it to microsoft and the one part of the OS you hate. THATS NOT WHY PPL ARE DISCUSTED WITH THEM. Its there ability to do it. JUST WAIT TILL ITS SOMETHING U LIKE. in a fair scnario (which will never exist thats why ANTITRUST IS MORONIC) They would get something you love or like too. It has nothing to do with the fact u dont use IE.

 

[gumpty]

Damn, if Id have known this earlier, I'd have used my vote in the EU elections and voted for UKIP. Get out of the EU then they cant f**k up our software.

Just to take this right off topic ...

In the grand scheme of things, jumping off the EU boat would be an idiotic move for the UK. 60% of the UK's trade is with the EU - so even once you're out, you still have to comply with EU trade laws to do business there anyway - so you've gained nothing. You then have to find jobs for the millions of British people that can no longer work in the EU automatically (there's 1 million in Spain alone). Sure you can kick out the Polish and give their jobs back to the British, but from what I've seen - they're mostly working the menial jobs that the British are too soft to do. So ... long story short ... you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Right, back to the topic at hand ...

 

[Easo]

Yea, EU didnt realy think trough this one, a lot of users will have problems... Kek, guess law is above all, even when it is stupid... US version for me...

 

[Steevo]

I love how everyone whines about IE and then when it gets taken away they cry.


I really want to see what happens, no doubt most companies will go around this and install it anyway on their systems thus saving the customer from the stupidity and greed of the EU courts.

It's good that you don't condone it, because you should stop doing it, ASAP.

Most security problems involving IE do not merely involve IE not being updated as needed -- the core nature of the browser is flawed. IE is intermeshed completely with the Windows OS -- security problems with IE can thus affect your entire installation.

It's why it's such an easy vector for viruses -- no amount of patches by Microsoft is going to fix it. When a security problem is found in something like Firefox, most of the time it just affects your browser-based activities -- your cookies could be exposed, or your browser passwords, or something like that. When a security problem is found in IE, the entire OS can be compromised.

What Microsoft needs to do, IMO, is split IE's rendering engine away from the browser to use internally in their OS, and then adopt a new browser engine to use with the external internet.



Not really, no. Now, I'd agree that 95% of websites look fine in IE, but that's only because so many web developers have to hold back new technologies and better ways of coding, because IE won't support them.

It's like saying a wheelchair can get in 95% of buildings -- but that's only because most buildings have to make a special ramp so that handicapped people using a wheelchair can access them.

All that was true in 2001 when XP was released, however with Vista and now Win 7 it runs in a sandbox, and thus is not tied to the the OS, thus also how they can remove it.

So IE is no more of a threat than FF, O, or Safari.

 

[gumpty]

ANALogies

Like ive said in in previous post if antitrust was fair it would be 100000000X more insane. Why did my chevy come with a chevy engine what if i want a ferrrari engine in it?!?!?!

Well I read somewhere that the EU was asking MS to do something that isnt required by other industries. The example they used was a 6 pack of coke. The EU basically wants MS to sell a 6 pack of coke with one pepsi included. You would get 5 cokes and 1 pepsi to offer you "choice". What MS did to fix this issue is sell you a 6 pack with only 5 cokes and an empty slot to make your "choice". However in the end still charging you the same price. Capitalism FTW!

FYI if you don't like it I hear Venezuela is working on an OS.

Those analogies are frankly terrible. Just awful.

A fizzy drink is a fizzy drink. A car is a car. Sure it uses various parts to make the car but the end product serves ONE purpose - getting you from A to B.
WHEREAS:
An OS is the piece of software that runs your computer. That is what it does. A web browser does something entirely different. Similarly a media player has another purpose. And they are mutually exclusive.

To correct your car analogy, it would be correct if you were talking about the map that came in the glove box. It'd be like someone telling Chevy to remove their own-brand (and poorly designed) map from the glove box. People could then choose what map they want - or more likely, the dealerships would put whatever map they thought best in the glove box.

EDIT:
I want to combine those two analogies now.
Lets say Chevy built a car and included with it a free Chevy-cola dispenser in the dash, this gives them a leg-up in the cola market as people drive their cars every day and consequently drink Chevy-cola instead of finding another brand. What the EU is doing is telling Chevy to stop with the cola-dispenser game so that consumers and OEMs can make their own minds up about which cola-dispenser to install in the dash.

I'm done with analogies now. I need to take a shower I feel so dirty.

 

[Kitkat]

The EU has responded. They think what MS are doing is partly stupid. They would rather see the OS come with other options:

"In a statement, regulators said that the move seems a step backward in the retail software arena, but said it could be more positive in the new PC market, which is how 95 percent of consumers get a new version of Windows.

"As for retail sales, which amount to less than 5 percent of total sales, the Commission had suggested to Microsoft that consumers be provided with a choice of Web browsers," the Commission said. "Instead Microsoft has apparently decided to supply retail consumers with a version of Windows without a Web browser at all. Rather than more choice, Microsoft seems to have chosen to provide less.""

seems more of your byast twards ms and LESS of REALITY of how stupid it is. When u want more options u take 3 seconds and download the one you want. Same as tires rims on a car or anything else. What if they all choose one u dont like??? How will you deal doing the SAME thing as if IE were installed already?!?! Antitrust idea was great WHEN THEY STARTED now its rediculas. You dont care cause its MS. I think supporting the WILD nature of Antitrust on behalf of ms byast is "frankly terrible. Just awful."

 

[btarunr]

Don't know what build WMP is included in Windows 7 RC but it plays everything rather well. Well everything i chucked at it.

 

[Cheeseball]

All that was true in 2001 when XP was released, however with Vista and now Win 7 it runs in a sandbox, and thus is not tied to the the OS, thus also how they can remove it.

So is it possible to uninstall IE7/IE8 from Vista/7 without having to use utilities like nLite and without any undesireable effects? I'd like to know if this is possible.

 

[alexp999]

http://img.techpowerup.org/090612/Capture077.jpg

He then went an answered his own question, lol

Jusy checked...

Build 12.0.7100.0

 

[newtekie1]

Lets say Chevy built a car and included with it a free Chevy-cola dispenser in the dash, this gives them a leg-up in the cola market as people drive their cars every day and consequently drink Chevy-cola instead of finding another brand. What the EU is doing is telling Chevy to stop with the cola-dispenser game so that consumers and OEMs can make their own minds up about which cola-dispenser to install in the dash.

The idealogy behind that is wrong. The EU and people defending the EU's decision are saying that the people that use Microsoft's OSes are forced to use the bundled software, and hence it blocks out the "competition". This is false, plain and simple. No one is forced to use IE or WMP just because they come with the OS. People choose to use them.

And using your anology, I wouldn't have a problem with the EU forcing Chevy to remove their cola-despenser, as long as they forced every other car manufacturer to do the same. It isn't fair to force Chevy to remove their cola-depenser while allowing Dodge and Ford to keep their cola-depensers in their new cars.

 

[Dimi]

I don't know why everyone complains. Lately i've been getting tired of Firefox and i'm edging towards using IE8 from now on.

I love using the IE8 64bit version because it runs nearly twice as fast as Firefox on my machine, renders pages blazing fast (and correct).

 

[Kitkat]

http://img.techpowerup.org/090612/Capture077.jpg

that may be next along with everything else

 

[TheMailMan78]

I love it when socialistic crap like this back fires. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside and remember the Reagan years.


Sorry. I had too.

 

[lemonadesoda]

I absolutely LOL at this. For "experts" like most users here it isnt a problem. We will keystick an install file. But for MOST CONSUMERS this will be shocking. They wont have the faintest clue what to do.

I bet Apple is ROFLCOPTERING at this. It will certainly boost Apple sales in the EU.

 

[lemonadesoda]

...And using your anology, I wouldn't have a problem with the EU forcing Chevy to remove their cola-despenser, as long as they forced every other car manufacturer to do the same. It isn't fair to force Chevy to remove their cola-depenser while allowing Dodge and Ford to keep their cola-depensers in their new cars.

Let's take this a step futher, in the EU, cars should be sold without wheels. Since it is blocking 3rd party wheel and tyre manufacturers. :shadedshu

I am EMBARASSED and ASHAMED of the EU's collective incompetence.