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Microsoft to Talk DirectX 12 at GDC

Discussion in 'News' started by btarunr, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. Hilux SSRG

    Hilux SSRG

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    Will 20nm Nvidia's Maxwells support Dx12 or are there already locked down and in the pipeline for release using 11.2?
  2. HumanSmoke

    HumanSmoke

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    Nothing forces developers to move to a new feature set that isn't paid for by TWIMTBP or Gaming Evolved, so it falls back onto the IHV's...as usual.
    US companies dominate? Are you sure it's only gaming? BTW: Might have escaped your notice that one of AMD's next Mantle titles, Sniper Elite 3, is made by Rebellion...a UK company.
    WTF #1....Really? I'm going to assume you're just trolling.
    WTF #2 DirectCompute was available with the release of DX11 in 2009 and is accessible to virtually any DX10 capable GPU. [Example #1] [Example #2 - Early implementation of DC. Metro 2033's DoF setting uses DirectCompute calc]
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  3. TheHunter

    TheHunter

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    No, only up to dx11.2.
    http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33638-maxwell-is-not-directx-12-next-compatible


    Guess it will be with Volta, 2 years time.. So then again this Directx hype means sheit. -_-

    They just wanted to let us know, look we do care we will make a new api, bla bla. Until then we will feed you with crap to make some more money, just because we can. xD



    EDIT or maybe not:

    they will release the api on 21st March, so that just in time ~ windows 8.1 update1
    http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/34137-directx-12-to-be-introduced-march-20th
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  4. Hilux SSRG

    Hilux SSRG

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    I guess it doesn't matter if it takes 2+ years for developers to utilize newest drivers, if at all. Wish there was a way to cut out support for below Dx 9 but probably not feasible.
  5. theoneandonlymrk

    theoneandonlymrk

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    For me the next and possibly most important question is which vendor is going to have initial support with dx12 its been Amd the last few years and it could be argued they are clearly already close in conceptual support of it in part due to mantel.

    But so does intel (they have an interesting gpu these days to say the least) and to a lesser degree nvidia.

    Could get interesting. .
  6. HumanSmoke

    HumanSmoke

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    Likewise, except that "which vendor is going to have initial support for DX12" is about 45th on my list.
    My list looks more like:
    1. What feature sets will be included ?
    2. If DX12 features mimic to some extent MS's Xbone DirectX 11.x pared down "close to metal" approach, will these features be ported into the existing DX11 (PC)? Unified/backportable WDDM, or clean sheet design requiring a fundamental OS revision?
    3. Will Microsoft still hobble DirectX as to make consoles more palatable ?
    4. Given the development lead-in time for the Xbone, how many of these "close to metal"/optimized draw call features already implemented in Xbone's DX11.x have been sitting ready to go for months or years?
    5. How stupid does the AMD talking head feel ?
    ...
    45. Q: Which vendor is going to have initial support for DX12....A: Whichever vendor 1. See's the benefit of it's inclusion, 2. Has its architectural cadence in lockstep with D3D release schedule.
  7. Xzibit

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    I don't think he'll feel stupid for making a statement at the time that was true.

    It goes to show that Microsoft DX 12 is a reaction to something and collaboration was started after that interview of April 2013, 11 months ago. That's enough time for Microsoft or any company to rethink its position on anything.

    Microsoft hadn't purchase Nokia yet
    Microsoft hadn't launched X-Bone and beaten by PS4
    Steam OS launch
    ARM moving more towards 64bit
    Android being a mobile gaming platform
    Etc...
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  8. HumanSmoke

    HumanSmoke

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    You're assuming that everyone at AMD is reading from the same page. If anything, the opposite has been true on many occasions. You also might want to remember that at the time, many people pointed out that the marketing arm (Taylor) doesn't necessarily represent the company view. Plenty of people were scratching their heads when he came out with the pronouncement.

    Remember John Fruehe's guerrilla marketing of Bulldozers supposed ability even after AMD had working silicon ? Either he didn't know his own companies products - a product he was directly responsible for marketing, or AMD's hierarchy deliberately misled him to garner further hype. Neither is a particularly palatable option.
    Remember when Richard Huddy of AMD talked up the death of DirectX, while Neal Robeson (also) of AMD talked up DirectX two days later?
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  9. Xzibit

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    My assumptions come from common sense rather then speculation and ill will towards a company.

    MS XBOne was set in stone and AMD would have been the first to know if MS was looking to improve DirectX and would want to know if AMD SoC would be able to deliver those features in its current state. The interview and write up you reference all allude to BF4 release and Windows 8.1 update which to this date we haven't seen a DX12 have we ? NO!

    MS making a play for the mobile market because it sees Android as a viable rival in the mobile space and wants in. It purchase Nokia and is including Qualcomm in DX development which has its chips in a large % of mobile phones. All the 2011 reference of "disarray" you reference all allude to OpenGL or alternative / benefits of a improved easy to work with API in a mobile platform.

    None of those piece started to fall in place from MS perspective until Q4 2013. So if you think interviews in 2011 reflects that be my guess.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  10. HumanSmoke

    HumanSmoke

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    Not necessarily. The AMD APU is based upon already existent hardware that is DX11.2 capable...which is the basis of the API used in the Xbone. It does not follow that the Xbone would be DX12 compliant, and if it is not then AMD need not be involved in consultation. The hardware for Xbone is done, MS aren't going to retool the Xbone for DX12.
    The fact of the matter is Taylor said there would be no DX12. While there isn't a DX12 at the moment, it certainly doesn't look as though it will never eventuate. Marketing is definitely not the pulpit that lends itself to expounding prediction of absolutes.
    You missed the point entirely. The Neal Robeson/Richard Huddy interviews were put forward to demonstrate that even between marketing arms of the same company (let alone product development and marketing) not everyone is reading from the same page. If that wasn't clear enough I could provide you with a stack of other examples. The fact that neither Richard Huddy, Neal Robeson, or John Fruehe continued to work for AMD for any appreciable time after the examples cited aired should give some indication of just how well they had their finger on the pulse of events.
  11. Xzibit

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    Correct if Microsoft was looking at DX improvements back then it would have looked to AMD to implement such DX improvements way back then. The fact that it didn't speaks to its recent development.

    The only absolute came from your assumption. Its clear from the translation that there were no plans for DX improvement at the time to his knowledge.

    Richard Huddy has worked for Nvidia, AMD and Intel 2011
    John Fruehe was let go in 2012
    Neal Robinson is still working at AMD

    What does marketing have to do with hardware compliance anyhow ? You grasping at straws ?
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  12. HumanSmoke

    HumanSmoke

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    So, you are of the opinion that the DX12 specification was written sometime after Roy Taylor's pronouncement and March 2014 ? Assuming MS didn't start work immediately just to spite Mr Taylor, you're looking at around nine months to get the specification presented including (I presume) a new shader model. Pretty speedy compared to the two years for DX10 and the twelve months for DX11.

    The odd thing is that Roy Taylor basically retreated from his own assertion when Microsoft weighed in on the matter, which basically says Roy wasn't in possession of all the facts....quelle surprise! The fact that none of AMD's senior management backed Roy's stance might be an indication that he was shooting from the lip - not an unknown occurrence (see below).
    My apologies to Neal Robison.

    All in all, quite a bite from you for what was a tongue-in-cheek jibe at Mr. Taylor ( a sterling example for why some people need emoticons to communicate) and which constituted ~16% of a post. He will always be remembered by me as the man who declared:
    That's my Roy!
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  13. Xzibit

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    I'm in the opinion of waiting for what MS has to say on the 20th

  14. NC37

    NC37

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    More interested to see how M$ answers Mantle or if they do. If AMD is showing that their optimized drivers can consistently beat M$ then it is just a matter of time before they feel the pressure. DX has been the one horse train for years now. Sure there is OpenGL but lets face it, it has never really done anything exceptional to compete against DX.

    Honestly I'd rather see a return to the golden age where GPU makers made their own blasted drivers and there was actual legitimate reasons, other than performance, to go for one or the other.
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  15. Xzibit

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    After Microsoft presentation

    DirectX: Direct3D Futures (Presented by Microsoft)
    Max McMullen | Development Lead, Windows Graphics
    Location: Room 2002, West Hall
    Date: Thursday, March 20
    Time: 4:00pm-5:00pm
    "Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before! In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don't want to miss this talk."

    AMD will be giving there own on APIs

    Direct3D and the Future of Graphics APIs (Presented by AMD)
    Johan Andersson | Technical Director, Frostbite
    Dan Baker | Partner, Oxide Games
    Dave Oldcorn | Software Engineering Fellow, AMD
    Location: Room 3020, West Hall
    Date: Thursday, March 20
    Time: 5:30pm-6:30pm
    "In this session AMDs Dave Oldcorn, Frostbite technical Director Johan Andersson and Oxides Dan Baker will look at how new Direct3D advancements enhance efficiency and enable fully-threaded building of command buffers. They will demonstrate how AMD is using its recent experience in efficient graphics API design and its partnership with Microsoft to provide developers with the infrastructure to render next-generation graphics workloads at full performance. This presentation also discusses the best ways to exploit AMD hardware under heavy load and will invite developers to influence driver and hardware development."
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  16. fullinfusion

    fullinfusion 1.21 Gigawatts

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    Fu%k MS and there shitty DX12 when Mantle is in the mix now!

    Given enough time Mantle is going to bring it to the table unlike the DX shit MS push on us to make us buy hardware that really don't do us any good.

    Bill Gates your a homo and stop the BS unless you can actually bring it cool?

    -that's all-
  17. Recus

    Recus

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    Meanwhile in Mantle headquarters.

    [​IMG]
  18. fullinfusion

    fullinfusion 1.21 Gigawatts

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    From a green team member Id cry too lol not having support! lmao
  19. rvalencia

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    From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014
    “You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

    Notice the word console with DirectX12 and MS's latest game console is Xbox One and it's powered by AMD GCN. The console word with MS's statement give a clue on which current GPU family supports DirectX 12.

    From http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

    "The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality".


    An example of Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superiority over PC's DirectX 11.2
    From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers


    "In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes,"

    Xbox One's APIs supports AMD GCN's multiple ACE units.


    From http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html
    "AMD Supports Possible Lower Level DirectX" - tomshardware

    “AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.” - AMD's response to DirectX 11.2.





    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  20. Recus

    Recus

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    What support?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Power of AMD GCN.

    [​IMG]
  21. rvalencia

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    X1's GPU hardware is in the low end side LOL.

    Also read http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

    Your benchmark doesn't cover real time GpGPU results return to the CPU latency and API improvements doesn't automatically solve GPU bound issues.

    From http://m.hardocp.com/article/2014/0...mance_preview_in_battlefield_4/3#.Uxm0ZvPNv40

    [​IMG]

    "For this first graph we are looking at Siege of Shanghai 64 player session. We are comparing at a common 1080p resolution, and without AA, but maximum in-game settings."

    ----------
    Your GIF is limited to 256 colors. LOL

    http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/01/tomb-raider-on-ps4-is-more-definitive-than-on-xbox-one/


    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  22. Xzibit

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    Now I know why you use that avatar.

    That's the face one makes when they try to make sense out of your post. "WTF, Did he mean to say cause I sure as hell have no clue"
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  23. fullinfusion

    fullinfusion 1.21 Gigawatts

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  24. Xzibit

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    Looks like AMD will have a Mantle panel at GDC.

    Mantle - Introducing a New API for Graphics (Presented by AMD)
    Stephan Hodes | Developer Technology Engineer, AMD
    John Larkin | Mantle Tools Developer, AMD
    Guennadi Riguer | Principle Software Developer, AMD
    Gordon Selley | Lead Developer GPU PerfStudio2, AMD
    Location: Room 2009, West Hall
    Date: Wednesday, March 19
    Time: 2:00pm-3:00pm
    "Last year AMD unveiled Mantle, a new graphics API designed to enable developers with lower-level and more efficient control of the graphics system. Taking advantage of the efficient nature of Mantle requires a familiarity with modern graphics hardware architecture along with a thorough understanding of the performance concepts it enables. In this Session we will explain how Mantle features enable Developers to improve both CPU and GPU performance in their titles. We will also provide best-practice API use examples and showcase common pitfalls encountered when porting an existing project to Mantle."
  25. fullinfusion

    fullinfusion 1.21 Gigawatts

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    Looks like amd is going to be the clear winner lol and 2-3 posts above, keep posting your pix it just makes me lol
    Good night all

    Till tomorrow :rockout:

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