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My 4770k delid video (IHS removal)

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by boulard83, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. boulard83

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    Video @ http://infodupat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=488

    @ 4.4ghz 1.3vcore
    Load temp with Small FFT was 85+°c
    Now i get ~75°c ( with NH1 paste )

    ** Waiting som liquid pro and ultra TIM for better results :) **

    There is the base line for my futur TIM testing and a possible lapping if the IHS is not 100% flat.
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
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  2. Conti027

    Conti027

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    I thought these were soldered...
    and yours just had TIM
  3. de.das.dude

    de.das.dude Pro Indian Modder

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    intel is too cheap to spend money on good TIM or Soldering it seems. or they are doing it on purpose so that people void their warranty and intel doesnt have to offer replacements, for CPUs for which they are sure wont last 3years ??
  4. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    Intel's mainstream platform was likely too good for most people compared to LGA 2011 back in the 2xxx days, so they nerfed it. Ivy Bridge HEDT will be soldered, so there isn't any reason why they couldn't do so with the mainstream 3xxx/4xxx socket 115x chips. Temps aren't bad at 4.2GHz but once you have to add lots of voltage, it's game over.
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  5. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    Its a dirty rotten trick being used by more and more manufacturers, it is entirely possible to "design" something to fail after a certain time period. The practice is absolutely outrageous and something needs to be done to stop it.
  6. de.das.dude

    de.das.dude Pro Indian Modder

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    ^ THIS!
    they know their CPUs are gonna fail in 5years, so they dont risk it failing in 3 years and use TIM so that people delidd and void their warranties.
    intel is all about making money now.
  7. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    I'm not as convinced about that as you are. For many items I would rather them be less expensive even if it causes them to fail sooner. The pace of technology in increasing, so you no longer need to design items to last a long time because the product will be obsolete long before its failure. In these cases the extra materials spent to enhance the product's durability were wasted.

    Do you seriously think that the hundreds of people who might delid their processors would affect a warranty program covering millions of products? The more reasonable explanation is that TIM is cheaper than solder and for the vast majority of consumers TIM vs solder makes no difference at all.
  8. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    For 99% of the users the difference will not kill the processor any faster, that is why they went with the cheaper TIM method instead of solder. The decision has nothing to do with shortening the products life.
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  9. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    BS. The "K" series of CPUs was introduced by intel FOR enthusiasts, meaning the use of TIM instead of solder is inexcusable. Joe average isn't going to buy a i5 or i7 K series CPU, hes happy with whatever i3 came in his pre-built £400 or less PC / laptop.

    Completely nonsensical response for a multitude of reasons.

    1. The difference between using TIM and solder is pennies, as enthusiasts we are happy to pay a few extra pence and not need to worry about delidding in order to get the very best temps.

    2. Shoddy manufacturing means components in addition to generating more heat will end up using more engergy - thus costing you more money.

    3. Regardless of how fast technology moves its no excuse for releasing a poorly designed product, you wouldn't buy a sandwich with no filling would you and just chalk it up to "oh well I'm going to be eating another sandwich tomorrow". Everybody likes (and should expect) anything they buy to be functioning at its optimal level.
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  10. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    Doesn't matter, the K series is manufactured on the same assembly line as the non-k series and the K series only sells to ~1% of the market, so it makes no sense for them to re-tool for 1% of their customers.

    1. It is pennies per processor, but when you have to shut down an entire assembly line to re-tool to run 1% of your production the cost becomes astronomical.

    2. The component doesn't generation any more heat, just because it gets hotter doesn't mean it is generating more heat. The processor consumes the same amount of power and generates the same amount of heat at 70°C as it does at 80°C. This concept has been discussed over and over again here, just go find one of the threads where someone thinks switching to water cooling will make their room cooler. Furthermore, enthusiasts don't care about power consumption.

    3. The processors will run for decades with TIM. Even if you overclock the living shit out of them to the point that they are overheating, the safeguards will kick in and make sure the processors will never actually get to the point of premature death or likely even real damage. When the processors used solder, people used to de-lid the things by heating them up way beyond 100°C with blowtorches, or running them without any heatsinks, and those processor are still running today. Don't try to push this bullshit that the TIM is shortening the lifespan of the processor, because it just isn't true, at least not shortening to the point that the processor won't be obsolete long before it dies.
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
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  11. james888

    james888

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    I thought k was for mainstream hobbyist overclocking while lga2011, like lga1366, was for the real enthusiasts.
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  12. radrok

    radrok

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    While I do agree there is an inherent problem with LGA2011.

    It's bloody outdated compared to Haswell :mad:

    If they really want to push their X line they should just ditch IVY-E and release Haswell-E already.

    That's not going to happen cause the so called E platform is just bits and pieces scattered from what remains of their Xeons after production.
  13. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    Yes it does matter. As a enthusiast you pay a premium price (which the K series is) in order to get the best. If intel doesn't want to re-tool for the K series they shouldn't charge a premium for it. To illustrate that premium, a K series 3570 CPU is £214, a regular 3570 CPU is £170, for £44 difference for essentially the same CPU just without the multiplier lock the enthusiast expects more for that premium as the K series can actually be rolled out faster and technically cheaper as it skips a step in the manufacturing process.

    Its astonishing that anybody, nevermind somebody like yourself who is supposed to be knowledgeable, would fail to see the points I'm raising. Perhaps you simply just don't care you pay more and get less (technically) with the K series I don't know, but either way intentionally giving something poor thermal characteristics is criminal. In a time when components are getting smaller, running on less voltage and supposed to run cooler as a result yet you aren't seeing component temperatures go down its time to start questioning.
  14. radrok

    radrok

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    I'm pretty sure they use what's good enough for allowing the CPU to work into reasonable conditions.

    I've also read somewhere that the application of solder/tim to the IHS is directly dependant to the TDP of the chip.

    Like the 2600K was 95W and it was soldered.

    3770K is 77W and 4770K is 84W and they both get crappy paste.
  15. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    All of this is answered in my other post really but;

    1. As I said, if intel is going to charge a £44 premium for a K CPU they better damn well give you something for it (a CPU that simply skips the laser cutting step far and away doesn't equate to a £44 premium).

    2. If a component gets hotter, it ends up generating more heat. You saying it doesn't generate more heat is like me saying when VRMs come under load they aren't going to heat up and cause ambient temps to rise, which in turn will cause the VRMs to get hotter - it just isn't true.

    3. CPUs in times gone by could indeed run for decades on TIM, today however that is not true at all. To date I have had to delid a Phenom 2 CPU after 1 year due to the TIM breaking down and causing the CPU to overheat in about 30 seconds of the system simply being on, I've had a 2500k die due to what I suspect to be a poorly soldered IHS, and more recently I saw a 18c drop in load temps by delidding a 3570k. Such thermal problems don't arise with a soldered IHS, unless of course you get a CPU like my old 2500k in that case it was entirely my fault for not returning it but I just couldn't be bothered.
  16. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    Hardly, if they wanted the best they'd be buying a 2011 system.

    That premium buys you an unlocked multiplier. Do you remember how much that used to cost? It was a hell of a lot more than $45. Since I am a knowledgeable person, I recognize that. And real know the price premium and unlocked multiplier used to cost, and they are very happy that it now only costs $45.

    What is this step you say they are skipping in the manufacturing process compared to the standard versions?

    And And how are you getting less with the K series exactly?
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  17. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    1. lol? You think skt 2011 is the best? Have you even looked at how old the technology of 2011 is? Aside from extra cores and triple channel memory 2011 does not technologically offer anything superior. Having the latest means having a system that incorporates as many of the latest technologies as possible - thats Z77 and Z87, not skt 2011.

    2. £44 is not $45 to start with, you are getting less with a K series CPU as at least the regular CPUs go through that extra step of being laser cut (thats why I say technically you are getting less with a K series) and finally I don't recall any time aside from in more recent years where such a premium for a unlocked CPU has been charged and I'm thinking way back to Athlon XP days, back then the difference between locked and unlocked was only like £20.
  18. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    1. If you were really knowledgeable you'd be damn happy that an unlocked multiplier is only costing you $45.

    2. That isn't even close to how things work, temperature does not equate to power usage or heat produced. When you change out from the stock heatsink to a better aftermarket heatsink does power consumption go down? No. The same is true with the TIM vs. Solder. Just because the processor is running cooler doesn't mean it is producing less heat or consuming less power.

    3. No, today it is still completely true. The rare cases where the processor dies early are not any more common with TIM than they are with solder, you're living proof of that. And the safeguards in place today to prevent damage from overheating are way better than what we had 10 years ago.

    1. Well it is offiically the enthusiast platform. Socket 115X is the mainstream platform. And yes, performance wise 2011 still is the best.

    2. Of course £44 isn't $45 but it is close enough, its 4AM here and I'm too lazy to do the conversion or type the alt code. And technically, the laser cutting would remove part of the silicon, so technically what I'm actually receiving in terms of physical product would be less with a non-K product...if you really want to be technical. However, the process of locking/unlocking the processor that Intel does isn't simply laser locking. After the CPU is binned, the information detailing clock speed, locked or unlocked status, cache availability, HT function, and model number are all laser hardcoded into the CPU. All the processors go through this step, it isn't skipped on unlocked processor because at the very least their clock speeds and model information still need to be set. And going way back to the Athlon XP days, Intel's unlocked processors were all extreme edition processors, and the price premium was usually $700-800 because they usually cost $1000 or more. And there were no official unlocked Athlon XPs, to get an Athlon XP with an unlocked multiplier you had to do a physical mod to the processor.
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
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  19. tigger

    tigger I'm the only one

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    I don't think the price matters, most enthusiasts don't keep the processor for more than 2 years probs anyway.
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  20. radrok

    radrok

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    ^^^

    Agreed.

    Also the so called "enthusiasts" were and supposedly still are those that didn't care about delidding soldered CPUs and probably wouldn't want to be spoon-fed by Intel.

    Delidding is a challenge and if you complain about it you are just an average overclocker, not an enthusiast, atleast in my book.
  21. silkstone

    silkstone

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    Your using liquid pro between the core and IHS, right? That stuff turns solid and can possibly damage the die is you ever try to remove it.
  22. Naito

    Naito

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    Love this Anti-Intel bullsh!t. Just remember where the x86 architecture came from in the beginning, and who was cloning chips for the first 16 years...

    Isn't that the basis of all enterprise?
  23. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    1. See my other post, I say right there even way back in the Athlon XP days the difference between unlocked and locked was only about £20.

    2. I'm not talking about power consumption directly (though if I recall due to the flow of electrons a small but noticeable increase in power can be measured between a component that runs cooler then that same component under the same conditions running hotter. As can power consumption vary depending on leakage of a component.) What I am directly talking about is how for very little extra current modern components with nothing more than a properly designed cooling solution can run much cooler which is just good all round. For example; On my 7950 I dropped VRM temps from a horrific 95c+ (stock) under full load down to a max of 78c (with OC) by doing nothing more than designing and fitting a proper VRM heatsink instead of just a small slab of metal across the VRMs.

    3. To date I've had 3 CPUs with TIM under the IHS cause me problems (twice that amount if I count friends CPUs I've had to delid due to TIM breaking down and causing problems), and 1 CPU thats had a soldered IHS cause me issue, so yes, your quite right I'm living proof - of the fact that CPUs with TIM under their IHS are quite a bit more likely to cause problems.

    I had my 2500k for 3 years :p Probably would still use it now if it wasn't half dead theres not exactly much performance difference between a SB, IB, or Haswell chip.
  24. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    I honestly suggest that you stop buying K series processors then. Apparently you thought the additional cost was warranted since you have testified to owning at least two of them. If you don't like the price or features then the best way to protest is to simply not buy the product.
  25. Naito

    Naito

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    You seem to have a relatively high failure rate of CPUs; what the hell are you doing with them? :laugh: I haven't had a CPU die since my old Cyrix, and I have overclocked pretty much all my processors.


    Rest assured that ALL modern electronics from these companies would have to pass intensive and extensive QA tests.
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