1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Need a new router

Discussion in 'Networking & Security' started by hat, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,698 (6.22/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,860
    The limitation with ICS, or at least it used to be a limitation in XP, not sure about Vista or Win7, is that you can only share the internet connection with one NIC in the computer.

    So basically, You have the modem providing the internet to NIC1, then you share the internet with NIC2 out to your PC. It will not allow you to share it with NIC3 also.

    However, the simple solution to this is to have:

    Modem to NIC1
    NIC2 to Switch/Hub
    Switch/Hub to Your PC
    Switch/Hub to Your Mom's PC

    It isn't an ideal solution, but it works that way.

    As for the port/DMZ/Firewall issue, let me try to explain it in an easy way:

    Lets assume there are only 5 ports(I know there are ~65000, but lets just assume there are only 5 for this example). And lets assume we have two computers, Computer A and Computer B.

    When you forward a port, you are telling the router to send all incoming traffic on that port to a specific computer. So lets assume you forward Port 3 to Computer B. What this does is send any incoming connection requests on Port 3 to Computer B. If you did not foward the port, obviously all incoming connection requests on Port 3 would be completely blocked because the router does not know what it is supposed to do with that requests.

    Now, if you then try to forward port 3 to computer A also, the router would get confused. It would not know to which computer it is supposed to send incoming connection requests on Port 3. Now I know you are asking: Why not just send the request to both computers. The reason it is not done this way, is that both computer might respond to the incoming connection request, and if this happens and both computers attempt to open the data connection on the same port, the router would likely lock up or the wrong computer might respond blocking the correct one. Now there are a enterprise class routers that can handle this type of situation, however if the WRT54GL is out of your price range, then they are way way out of your price range.

    Now, if you assigning Computer A as DMZ, you are in effect forwarding ports 1 through 5 to that computer. What this does is tell the router that any incoming requests on any port get sent to that computer. The only exception is ports that you have specifically fowarded to another computer. So lets say Computer A is DMZ, and your forward Port 4 to Computer B. Then all connections requests on ports 1,2,3, and 5 go to Computer A, but any connection requests on Port 4 go to Computer B.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
    hat says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  2. mrhuggles

    mrhuggles

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,540 (0.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    174
    that would require him getting more than 1 ip address and might not be possible. [or might cost more moneys]
  3. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,698 (6.22/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,860
    What would?
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  4. mrhuggles

    mrhuggles

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,540 (0.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    174
    Modem to NIC1
    NIC2 to Switch/Hub
    Switch/Hub to Your PC
    Switch/Hub to Your Mom's PC

    that means that each one is getting its own ip address right? switch/hub to both boxes means they each get an individual ip from modem?

    modem
    |
    switch
    ^
    box1 box2


    EDIT: arrg that doesn't work even tho when i go to edit my post it shows it how i put it o well u get the idea still i think.
    hat says thanks.
  5. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,698 (6.22/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,860
    No no no, sorry I should have been more clear.

    It would go modem to his PIII's NIC1. Then he would use ICS to share the connection with NIC2. Which would then connect to the switch/hub, and the switch/hub would connect to the other computers.

    Modem
    |
    PIII "router"
    |
    Switch/Hub
    /\
    Computers
    hat says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  6. hat

    hat Maximum Overclocker

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    16,881 (6.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,060
    Location:
    Ohio
    What about a NIC with 2 ports?

    What if I stuffed a NIC in my pc and did it like this

    Modem - NIC1 on master pc
    NIC2 on master pc - NIC1 on my PC
    NIC2 on my pc - mom's pc

    I have a 10Mbit hub I could use... but I'd rather not, as it's slower than 100Mbit and it has some annoying lights on it :)

    Invalueble place this is...
    Crunching for Team TPU
  7. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,698 (6.22/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,860
    You could do it like that, but going through 2 NAT translations isn't ideal, and I don't know if it would even work, as I think the ICS computer has to have a certain IP address, and if both computers are running ICS they would both have the same IP, which doesn't work.

    You could use the 10Mbit hub for the time being, but you could also just pick up this dlink 100Mbit switch for $19.99 after shipping, $9.99 after MIR.
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  8. hat

    hat Maximum Overclocker

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    16,881 (6.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,060
    Location:
    Ohio
    Yeah but what about a NIC with 2 ports?

    The 10mbit switch would be fine if I HAVE to use it. My internet is only 5Mbit so it's not like it would cripple my speed
    Crunching for Team TPU
  9. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,698 (6.22/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,860
    It depends on how the NIC shows up on the computer. If it shows up as two seperate NICs then no, it wouldn't work. If it shows up as a single NIC, then it would work. However, I would think a NIC with 2 ports would be just as expensive as buying a WRT54GL or a nice Gigabit Switch, they are kind of specialized.

    Edit: Yeah they are pretty expensive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=
    hat says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  10. [I.R.A]_FBi

    [I.R.A]_FBi New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    7,664 (2.92/day)
    Thanks Received:
    540
    Location:
    c:\programs\kitteh.exe

    What he said
    hat says thanks.
  11. Pinchy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,109 (1.70/day)
    Thanks Received:
    284
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yeah, I would think a dual port NIC would come up with two connections in windows anyway.


    To further newtekie's DMZ/firewall/port thing, I will just tell you how it clicked in my brain (ironically, found this out from newtekie myself :p)

    I host my website on my server. Hence I opened port 80 on my servers internal IP address. So when you connect to my external IP address via HTTP (port 80), my router sends you to my server (as its the servers internal ip address that has port 80 clear).

    If I tried to forward port 80 on my PC as well, and you went to my external IP via HTTP (aka my website), my router wouldn't know whether to send you to the website hosted on my pc or the website hosted on the server, because there is port 80 forwarded on two internal IP addresses.
    hat says thanks.
  12. hat

    hat Maximum Overclocker

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    16,881 (6.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,060
    Location:
    Ohio
    lol, crap

    To the hub!
    Crunching for Team TPU
  13. Pinchy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,109 (1.70/day)
    Thanks Received:
    284
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    It's a shame you dont live around me.

    I got this Netcomm VPN 10/100 router just laying here. I got no power cord for it but would give to you for postage.


    Have you tried ebay? I got some dlink 10/100 router with wifi for $30 shipped to me.
    hat says thanks.
  14. wiak

    wiak

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,743 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    198
    Location:
    Norway
    what the heck is this
    just get a wireless 11n router with gigabit switch

    my setup is like this
    ADSL2+ Modem > D-Link DIR-655 11n Gigabit Router > File Server > Switch > My PC
    |
    Laptop 1 (11n) Laptop 2(11g) HTPC (11n) Printer (11g)

    basicly all my wired and wireless computers can talk to everyone domt mess with a dedicated firewall why? there is built in good firewalls in new wireless 11n routers nowa days
    hat says thanks.
  15. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,329 (6.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,357
    Location:
    IA, USA
    I have a DGL-4500 (DIR-655's bigger brother) and DynDNS ain't working so, I wrote a Windows Service to do the updating for me that runs on my server. If you got a Windows computer that is always running, I can hook you up with it.
    hat says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  16. wiak

    wiak

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,743 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    198
    Location:
    Norway
    you can find DynDNS clients anywhere hehe ;p
    hat says thanks.
  17. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,329 (6.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,357
    Location:
    IA, USA
    Not Windows Services. :p

    Making it a service means no tray icons or windows. The service is configured via XML document and all notices are placed in the Application Event log. Unless you go digging for it, you don't know it is even running. ;)

    Oh, it also makes note of when you don't have internet access in the log. I used the log as evidence against my ISP because of the downtime I get. :(


    DMZ is a NAT rule that basically says all incoming packets that don't have a designated local IP go to this IP. It isn't a firewall but NAT is a good way to deny a lot of unwanted traffic (make it get lost in cyberspace).


    Again, that is a NAT issue. You can only DMZ one IP. I recommend using Virtual Server/Port Forwarding over DMZ. DMZ is only used when all else fails. You can packet sniff to figure out which ports need to be forwarded.


    You can always turn the Wireless Radio off.
    hat says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  18. wiak

    wiak

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,743 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    198
    Location:
    Norway
    you can set the wireless on on day and off on night
    hat says thanks.
  19. hat

    hat Maximum Overclocker

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    16,881 (6.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,060
    Location:
    Ohio
    I'd rather use the PIII computer as I already bought it and don't want to get a router when the computer can do it just as easily
    Crunching for Team TPU
  20. mrhuggles

    mrhuggles

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,540 (0.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    174
    hat: don't listen to them they are being confusing probably not on purpose, if you get a nic with 2 ports or just put 2 nics in it you will be good to go.

    i hear what your going for and it will totally work without issue.
    hat says thanks.
  21. hat

    hat Maximum Overclocker

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    16,881 (6.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,060
    Location:
    Ohio
    I was going to use the 3 nics idea (one for modem, 2 for other pcs) first anyway, just cause. I'd really rather not use the hub if I don't have to. :p
    Crunching for Team TPU
  22. mrhuggles

    mrhuggles

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,540 (0.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    174
    think of the p3 box as your router, you can host game servers and stuff on it too yay
    hat says thanks.
  23. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    13,329 (6.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,357
    Location:
    IA, USA
    Problem is, a Pentium 3 computer consumes a hell of a lot more power than a consumer router (4+ times more). The Pentium 3 is probably in the neighborhood of 100-150w while a router is 20-30w. A consumer router, therefore, pays for itself over time.
    hat says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  24. mrhuggles

    mrhuggles

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,540 (0.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    174
    its what he wants to do, no need to rain on the guys parade :p
    hat says thanks.
  25. hat

    hat Maximum Overclocker

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    16,881 (6.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,060
    Location:
    Ohio
    The PIII was going to run 24/7 anyway as a Quake server. So I actually cut out that 20/30w by using an existing setup as a router and not getting another. Maybe I will stop global warming?
    Crunching for Team TPU

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page