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Need help to buy a new PC

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Diamond05, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. Diamond05 New Member

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    Hello everyone,

    This is the first time that I’m trying to build a custom PC. I am gathering information about hardware for the past 10 days and I want your opinion because I am in dead end.

    First of all, my target is to build a desktop PC for extra demanding gaming, (lite to medium) multitasking and watching HD movies at high resolutions. Also I can tell that I am 99% certain that I will be using only 1 really good monitor. I want at first 8GB of RAM and I think of upgrading later to 16GB. Furthermore I am going for an ATX mobo because I believe XL-ATX is too much for me. At last I will NOT do any extra overclocking and I will stick to factory settings. If, in the end, I am going to buy something factory overclocked then I will not do anything more. As for money I am planning to spent at least 700$ and at most 1000$ (more or less). I am from Greece and the prices are from here in dollars.

    So let’s start with what I have so far... I with point my thoughts and I will explain after.

    1) Processor: Intel Core i7-4820K 3.70/3,90GHz (CPU) 388$
    2) GPU: 1x Asus GeForce GTX760 2GB Direct CU II OC 317$
    3) Motherboard: ASUS P9x79 PRO 311$
    4) RAM: ??? (There are too many options)
    5) PSU: Corsair RM Series RM750 80Plus Gold 162$
    6) HARD DRIVE: OCZ Vector Series SATA III 128GB 2.5'' SSD 152$

    I can find these items at total price of 1352$ (It’s above my calculations but its ok)
    I want to believe that I can do the things that I mentioned above with less money, but I also know that "you get what you pay for".

    1) Intel Core i7-4820K. I believe that it is pointless to have an APU and an extra more powerful high end GPU, and this is the cheapest of its category. I have also read in many forums about Intel Core i7-4770K, Intel Core i7-3770K, Intel Core i5-4670 but according to this http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html the i7-4820K has the best benchmarks of all and here the prices are almost similar (except i5-4670). Also If I was going only for games I would choose the i5-4670 because in games it is pointless to have HT and there aren't yet any games that can use fully 4 CPU cores. At last I came across with Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 with really low price (221$) but I do not know if it is a good choice, because Xeon processors are mainly for server types PCs.

    2) Thankfully this is the easiest part... It is
    Asus GeForce GTX760 2GB Direct CU II OC
    Or
    Asus GeForce GTX760 2GB Direct CU II

    2nd choice Gigabyte GeForce GTX760 2GB WindForce 3X OC (rev. 2.0)
    I have almost made my mind because of the benchmarks in pairing with the prices.

    I also have seen Gigabyte GeForce GTX760 4GB WindForce 3X OC but I do not know if 4GB are more than I need. The difference in price is +90$ from above Asus (both same price)

    3) Asus P9x79 PRO I have not found something better for the money I give.
    I know that if I am going with another CPU I am going also for another motherboard

    5) Corsair RM Series RM750 80Plus Gold. I think that it is a really good deal for my system to run at its best

    6) OCZ Vector Series SATA III 128GB 2.5'' SSD for system and programs (I am open to any suggestions). I am going to have a 2nd HDD only for storage.

    And I saved it for last....

    4) RAM!!! Too many compatibles too many brands
    I prefer 1600MHz over 1333MHz if the latency is better
    I am close to G.SKILL F3-12800CL7D-8GBRH(XMP) 8GB (2x4GB) 7-8-7-24 1,6V based on latency

    I want to think that eventually I will make a good investment!!
    Thanks for having to read all this and I will be waitting for your responses.

    Attached Files:

  2. Jetster

    Jetster

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    First off if you know your not going to overclock or use large amounts of ram 32+ then you don't need an Enthusiast level board so don't get a 2011 socket. Just stick with a 1150 Haswell i7 4770 and you don't need a K version. The Corsair RM series is perfect but you only need a 650 at the most. 550w will do nicely. Then put the extra money you just saved in a GTX770. Another misconception is that HT is pointless in games. Its just that the cost rarely justify any benefit. But do you ever tab out of a game to check some other software running or download some add on?
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
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  3. Diamond05 New Member

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    I do not know yet if the max memory bandwidth of i7-4770 (25,6GB/s) will be enough for me... I almost know nothing about how exactly the data transfer is made. I am searching now to know more. I have seen only about compartibility so far. The i7-4820K has 59,7GB/s
    http://ark.intel.com/compare/75122,77781
    Yes, you are right. I didn't said that the right way and as of...
    All the time, and it is frustrating to wait for the computer to respond everytime I hit Alt+TAB.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  4. suraswami

    suraswami

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    "there aren't yet any games that can use fully 4 CPU cores" - BF4 is one of the newest titles that will make use of 8 threads.

    I also think that 4770k is plenty for gaming and if its cheaper put that money in a 770/780 or R290X.

    16GB ram is plenty.

    Keep the 750W as this is the backbone of your PC, this will serve you for a while even if you decide to add another video card for SLI/CF.
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  5. Dent1

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    Says who? There have been plenty of games supporting quad cores over the years. Crysis 1-3, BF3, BF4, Assassin's Creed IV, Farcry 2/3 etc
  6. leeb2013

    leeb2013

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    to do what you want to and without o/c, I think you should reduce the cost of the CPU and mobo and get a better GPU. I7 or K not really required and if not o/c then most $100 mobo will be fine.
    GTX760 is not really good enough, I would suggest cutting back on these other parts and then get the best GPU you can afford eg. GTX680, 770, 7970, R9-280X or even trying for R9-290(x), or SLI/crossfire 2 cheaper GPUs. Otherwise you're PC will be bottlenecked by the GPU, having spent a fortune on parts that don't really add to gaming performance.
    Any memory will be fine, anything above 1600, doesn't really add to gaming performance either. Get 2x4GB now (dual channel), then another 2x4GB later when stuff needs more than 8GB.
    I would suggest 750 PSU in case you add another GPU later, otherwise 650 is plenty.
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  7. Diamond05 New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. So far what I have

    1) CPU: i7-4770 357$
    2) GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX770 2GB WindForce 3X OC 400$ (the price will go down later these days)
    3) Motherboard: Asus Z87-PRO(V EDITION) 230$
    4) RAM: G.SKILL F3-12800CL7D-8GBRH(XMP) 8GB ( 2x 4GB ) DS 7-8-7-24 115$
    5) PSU: Corsair RM Series RM750 80Plus Gold 162$
    6) HARD DRIVE: OCZ Vector Series SATA III 128GB 2.5'' SSD 152$

    Total price: 1254$
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  8. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    Looks ok, I will swap the Asus board to Extreme4, and use the money saved for a 240Gb SSD. Also, you can dial the psu down to 500W if you are not planning SLI in the future, and use the money saved for an aftermarket cooler to overclock the 4770K. As a gamer I would pick 4670K over 4770 non-K, mainly because there are games out there (like Rome II) which needs crazy amounts of single core performance.
  9. Diamond05 New Member

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  10. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't quite understand what you are trying to show me, but its well documented that Rome II consumes massive amounts of single core power, and spreads the rest of the load out among other cores. Its similar in most RTS games.
  11. Diamond05 New Member

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    Sorry for that.. it points 10 of 10 to i7-4770 for recommented requirements. Moreover, if I was going for overclock, I would have gone to my first port based on benchmarks. But then I i would have wanted more money for the rest system. I read somewhere that i7-4770 runs better from i7-4820k in stock clocks
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  12. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure, with 1280x1024 :wtf:

    I personally have not come across anyone not lagging on Rome II, regardless of whatever chip they are using.
  13. Diamond05 New Member

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    i5 is not an option, I m not just gonna play a game and that's it.. In General I have i7 and 8 core AMD in my mind
    As for Rome let's leave it aside it is a game far beyond our times.. Also I want to know which exactly extreme 4 are you referring to. I want to search for it too.
  14. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    There is only one z87 extreme4.
  15. Aithos

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    HT is pretty pointless for gaming. You can very easily look at any reviews from recent years to see that there is no real world benefit to having HT unless you are talking about heavily threaded applications for 3d modeling or encoding video, etc. Game engines, even ones that use multiple cores are not heavily optimized because the games are required to run effectively on a wide range of systems, not just the high end. Feel free to refer to the Anandtech reviews for IVY-E if you want to see it. They benched the i5-4670 against the top IVY-E and it was pretty clear that for most tasks the chip that costs 1/4 is every bit as good.

    OP: I have a couple suggestions based on what you've said. First, you don't need an IVY-E cpu for your needs and you'll get better performance for what you want to do with a Haswell chip. I would say you don't even need the 4770k, but either way it will save you some money. Also, as others have mentioned if you don't plan to overclock then you don't need a high end MB. Your money would be far better served upgrading your GPU and getting a bigger SSD. Also, you haven't stated what you want to do that requires HT, you have said you don't intend to "just" game so you won't consider the i5...what are you doing specifically that you need HT?

    In your OP you said:

    That sounds to me like you don't need HT. If you aren't doing 3d modeling, heavy video editing/encoding or something similar then you won't see any real world difference in performance. Having a bunch of applications open at once, streaming video and browsing the internet will not see any significant benefit to additional virtual cores (HT). The OS still has to manage the CPU time and those tasks are more dependant on memory performance than multi-threading. A 6 or 8 core CPU will ONLY benefit you in HIGHLY OPTIMIZED HEAVILY THREADED APPLICATIONS. Don't waste your money.

    Here is what I would look at:

    cpu ($220-$320) - i5-4670 or i7-4770 (if you want to overclock get the K version)
    mb ($145) - Asus z87-a or ASRock extreme4
    ram ($190) - Corsair Vengeance Pro 1866 (cas 9) 16gb
    psu ($130-$170) - Corsair RM750 or AX760i
    gpu ($330ish) - EVGA gtx 770 superclocked
    ssd ($189-$215) - Samsung 840 or 840 pro 250/256gb

    That puts you at $1204-$1370, gives you similar (or better) cpu performance, better memory, better gpu, better ssd and will give you an overall better system. You can also bump to the K cpu for $20 and bump to a slightly nicer MB for $50 (Asus z87-pro). Either way the Ivy-E is not worth it for what you want to do, if you look at Anandtech's Ivy-E review the 4670 and 4770k outperform the chip you selected by a wide margin and cost less...

    Edit: The article I mentioned http://www.anandtech.com/show/7255/intel-core-i7-4960x-ivy-bridge-e-review/5
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
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  16. Diamond05 New Member

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    Another think that I didn’t mentioned is that for storage I have already 2 TB of WD external HDD and for the tower a 500GB internal HDD from my previous tower, but the most job rests upon the SSD, that’s why I believe that I am fine with a small one.

    Maybe my experience with Pentium 4 has blocked my eyes. I have a gap of 3-4 years with my last desktop, and so my needs are indeed less than I expected. But even with that I don t wanna say in 7 years from now that I need a whole new desktop. I plan on keeping with my built as long as I can. I even think just a little to go oc (it isn t so much of a deal with good research). I think of it as an investment for the next years. Technologies and programs are popping out as popcorn in a hot pan. I want to amortize the money, which I am going to spent for the tower. Maybe you think that I spent money on programming that doesn’t exist yet (as one guy said before). So my answer to that is yes I want to do it, cause first of all is better to have something good and fast for its time and later be moderate than slow and for junks (matter of speech) (i5,i7 and Celeron or Pentium).

    Secondly, I have done already my search on HT and I have read before the things that you mentioned above but it doesn’t convince me that later I am not going to need HT or more than 4 cores. As for ASRock extreme4 I haven’t heard the best user reviews, so I will go with Asus Z87-A, cause Z87-pro is overpriced for what is offering (recently learned). Corsair Vengeance Pro 1866 (cas 9) 16gb with timings 9-10-9-27 is good in pair with the z87-a‘s QVL, but it isn’t written in it, so I will give it a second thought and I would prefer faster RAM modules.

    Thirdly, Gigabyte GeForce GTX770 2GB WindForce 3X OC and EVGA GeForce GTX770 2GB SuperClocked ACX Cooler are almost the same as I read in different forums but the 2nd now cost +74$.

    Also, you are right about i5-4670k it is 135$ cheaper with the almost same performance in the best possible vram. But will i5-4670k be enough for even more cpu demanding programs? Options here i5-4670k and i7-4770K

    http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z87-A/Z87-A_DRAM_QVL_0730.pdf
  17. buildzoid

    buildzoid

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    Why are you buying gtx 770 get an R9 280X toxic from sapphire it's cheaper and faster and has mantle support. As for the cpu I recommend going with the i7 4770(k) because it has been shown that if you have enough stuff running in the background(streaming game footage is a prime example) the i5 will slow down a lot.
    HT works as a system to use unused resources of a core and doesn't care about what uses it. It is possible to run an entire program on a hyper thread it won't be as fast as on a true thread but will run.
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  18. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    Mantle at this point is pretty useless. We only know of one game which will use it (Battlefield 4), and it can very easily become the next PhysX. Between the 770 and 280X, get the cheaper.

    Finally, if you can get 4770K I don't see why not, as long as you are ready to overclock it. Otherwise get 3770K (and the corresponding Z77 board), its much easier to overclock.
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  19. Go To Sleep

    Go To Sleep

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    Make sure your RAM is Corsair, can't go wrong with them :)
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  20. THE_EGG

    THE_EGG

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    Agreed, I too would get a 280x over a 770.
  21. TheHunter

    TheHunter

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    And get a chip with HT, don't listen to naysaysers. Non HT, 4thread cpu is so 2010 lol :D


    I own 4770K and believe me that HT comes handy everywhere and if you're lucky with good low voltage cpu, then you can run 24/7 @ 4.6 - 4.8GHz no problem..
  22. Diamond05 New Member

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    i7-4770K is locked

    http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+770&id=2531

    http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=1860&gid2=881&compare=radeon-r9-280x-vs-geforce-gtx-770 (stock clocks I think)

    I heard from you and also in many forums I heard that r9 280x has the almost same performance with less price. But know that NVidia dropped the prices gtx 770 has only 329$ and toxic (350$ amazon price) and so will be (I think) the prices of the remanufactured gtx. Except from support what else does r9 280x benefitting option?

    If you have a better option for Corsair Vengeance Pro 1866 (cas 9) 16gb with timings 9-10-9-27 please tell me. I know that 1866 is overkill, but I will stick with it and so I want something with better cas(8,7) *If they exixts at these speeds*. Acceptable also 1600
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  23. THE_EGG

    THE_EGG

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    Looking at the figures it really is 50/50 between the 280x and 770. 770 pulling a small lead by about 2% looking at performance summary (16 games) at 1920*1080 resolution and the 280x pulling about a 6% lead at higher resolutions (probably due to having more vram). The 280x and 770 versions I compared - both Asus models with the DCII cooler - it appeared the 280x ran cooler but the 770 was a tiny bit quieter. But the 280x, at least where I live and also in the US appears to be the cheaper of the two. Also I think the 280x will be supporting Mantle but the 770 will also have it's benefits too like the new recording feature through GeForce experience whatever it's called.

    Your RAM seems fine.
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  24. Diamond05 New Member

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    And also something else.. Will 2x(2x4GB) modules 1600GHz cas 7-8 in dual mode, and be better than Corsair vengeance pro 1800GHz cas9 16GB 2x8GB I am sorry to ask you without searching first but I want to know until the end of the day. Furthermore i7-4770k memory specs are showing compatibility with only DDR3-1333/1600. I don t want to buy a 1800GHz and run as 1600
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  25. Diamond05 New Member

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    I found that, by overclocking CPU I can access the potential of a faster RAM and of course motherboard supports RAM’s speeds. If that is correct then, this will be my built. I also took consideration all of your comments.

    CPU: Intel i7-4770K
    GPU: SAPPHIRE TOXIC R9 280X 3GB GDDR5
    Motherboard: Asus Z87-A
    RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro 1866 (CAS 9) 16 GB
    PSU: Corsair RM Series RM750 80Plus Gold
    HD 1: OCZ Vector Series SATA III 128GB 2.5'' SSD
    HD 2: 500GB (already have it)
    CASE: Full-tower (from a friend of mine)
    Disk Drive: (from my previous tower)

    I just hope that they are fine so many years unused.
    If somebody has something to add it's not too late.
    The thing is that I cannot find that specific 280x in my country... I need some online stores preferably at EU.
    But what about OC the GPU? Will SAPPHIRE TOXIC R9 280X 3GB GDDR5 have an edge over Gigabyte GeForce GTX770 2GB WindForce 3X OC (always at high resolutions)?
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013

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