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Need Some help with a new rig

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Rey17, Oct 18, 2007.

  1. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    In the 2 black PCIe 16X slots.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Grimskull New Member

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    Rey17,

    I would google PC online stores in Australia first before checking ebay for RMA purposes etc.
    RMA= Return Material Authorisation , in case a part is faulty and you need to send it back to where you got it, some ebay sellers dont do refunds if you bought it of a person and not a ebay store... just so you dont get caught out.

    there is also a new range of intel board coming out called the X38 range, they support crossfire (AMD/ATI dual graphics cards) and a new range of graphics cards from AMD/ATI called the HD 3800 series and also from nVidia called the G92 range. Both have their good points and pretty good value for money.

    New CPU's (Processors) from Intel called the E6850/E6750 and new ranage coming soon called the Phreyn and new one from AMD called Phenom too. All at very good pricing!

    For a hard drive setup have a look a Western Digital Raptors, people on hewre say they are very fast, but they are expensive. i have 2 x 500GB Samsung SATA2 hard drives and couldnt be happier!

    For 4GB of RAM you will need a 64bit operating system like Windows XP X64 or Vista 64bit, but compatability issues with both are well known, if you opt for a 32bit your PC will only be able to see 3.2-3.5GB of RAM.

    Also invest in a floppy drive, if your copy of windows doesnt have RAID driver slipstreamed into it (added in after the XP cd was bought) you probably wont be able to setup the RAID drivers in windows at the setup screen (Press F6 to set up RAID or 3rd party SCSI drivers)
    RAID drivers are installed by windows via a floppy drive for SATA hard drives. Opt for a RAID 0 (stripe RAID, faster RAID setup).

    If this is your first build take your time at it, read the manuals carefully and dont panic if it doesnt start up, probably someting now wired correctly.

    Let us know how you get on
     
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  3. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    thank you so much wile E....... but arent those too further away ?? lol well probably not......

    and thank you so much grim skull...... alot of writing...lol.......... i will seroisly take your advice of eBay....

    im not that much of a Ati rad eon supporter......lol i like Nvidia more than ati so i will buying 2 nvidia cards...... and you said about he g92..... isn't a 8800 gtx good ???...

    and one more thing........... so i need a floppy drive to do raid rite?? what will happen if i make the raid drives and then remove the floppy drive..... would it make any difference ?

    and the system that crashnburn made is i think by far the most good rig in less price i have seen.... so im going to buy all the parts that he has reccomended but i will change the mobo...... ill change it to the EVGA because it supports SLI and crashnburn has it himself..... so yea lol.....


    and i just wanted to say thank you everyone sooooooooooooooooo much for giving me the best ideas for my first build.....

    THANKS EVERYONE !!!
     
  4. Grimskull New Member

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    What OS are you gonna use?
    The 8800GTX is G92 (as far as i am aware) so your home dry with that, just make sure your PSU (Power Supply Unit) is up for it, check that they are SLi/Crossfire certified, but also the rail amps are up for it. The rail is the cable running from the PSU to the graphics card. What PSU you getting and we can have a quick look for you.

    You need floppy drive for XP 32-bit if they driver hasnt been slipstreamed in. I always put floppys in all the PC's i build, to get the RAID driver its best to download it from the motherboards website. If they come down zipped or rarred, unzip and unrar them and copy them to a blank floppy disk.

    The following guide is for XP Pro SP2, its a general guide, your motherboard and setting may change but you get the general idea.

    Install all the hardware, connect all the cables and power it up, go straight into the BIOS and with the manual at hand, select and enable RAID in the BIOS. save and exit, the PC will reboot, now closely atch the text that appears, if you see somthing like " press CTRL + F/I/Y to select RAID" press those keys, the last letter may change but you get the general idea.
    If you have power to the CD/DVD drive its always good to put the OS disc in now.

    In there you build the RAID, its all done by keystroke on your keyboard by pressing 1,2,3 or 4(any i have done is by that) then select the hard drives that you want to use as a RAID 0 or stripe RAID, select the cache to 128KB and enable write-thru. save and exit, the PC will restart, go back into the BIOS again and select the boot order for CD/DVD drive first, hard drive 2nd, floppy 3rd, save and exit, the PC will restart again, let it pass all the logos and pass the RAID screen, then the CD/DVD will start to spin and you should see "press any key to boot from CD", hit enter and get ready to press F6, read the white wrting at the bottom of the screen when it says "Press F6 for RAID or SCSI" press it, and let it continue, pop in your floppy and wait for the on screen instructions, a message may appear that no hard drives were found and to specify a drive by pressing S, hit S and then it will sayto insert a floppy and press enter, do that and it will search the floppy for drivers. find the one for your motherbaord if more than one is listed, normally X86 XP would do the trick, X64 is for a 64 bit OS. press enter and it will install the drivers for the RAID so XP can see the SATA (Serial ATA) hard drives in a RAID (RAID = Reduntant Array of Indepentant Discs* makes the PC think there is one hard drive when you actually have more than one) from there then you can partition off a section of you hard drive for windows and make a C and a D drive, but totally up to you, to install theOS select the drive (always best to use C) and press enter, quick format it, the setup files will copy over and the PC will restart....

    *WARNING*!!!!

    apon restart the message will appear to press any key to boot from CD.....DO NOT PRESS ANYTHING....let it off...... the windows XP logo will appear with the blue bar going left to right and the install will start.... going on your PC specs it should install in under 8 mins. Enter in your CD key for windows (Tech power up will always assume you have a legit version *cough*) enter in your time and date, location, network setting, leave it as workgroup and it will finsih the install, the PC should restart again.... don not press anything, and will show the XP setup for your name, wnter in your name, save, and it should continue to the desktop, take out the CD and floppy, install the drivers from the CD, the PC will restart again, then install your internet securities, AVG/Bitdefender/Kaspersky...anything but Norton or Symantec....... the PC will restart after internet securities install, now wuld be a good time to change the boot sequence to: 1: RAID hard drive, 2: CD/DVD 3:Floppy, save and exit... but go through the manua for other settings like CPU temps and CPU Fan speeds controls. boot up and get your internet securities up to date and get your XP up to date...but do not take down ANY microsoft hardware updates...they are crap, only use manufacuter ones..... also you might need .Net 2.0 installed before your graphics card is installed, you can get them from microsoft.......


    the above is from memory..... i hope i havent missed anythng..... but read your manual for the motherbaord and ask us for help if you need it.........


    right now my fingers are wore down to stumps!!!!! hahahhahah:laugh::laugh:
     
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  5. Shyska New Member

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    That was one nice write up :toast:
     
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  6. zCexVe

    zCexVe

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    Its good if Rey17 tried couple of HD 3870s with that money.Or I say 8800GTs.Its nice with the amount of money and technology.Or wait till January for a 45nm Penryn.Thats why I still use my MSI K8N diamond plus(socket 939) while I have an ASUS Striker extreme in packaging :D
     
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  7. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    thanks everyone and thanks grimskull..... its kind of complicated but ill get it...*i hope*


    im getting this psu : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817341003

    so you NEED a floppy drive to make raid.... cant you use a blank CD to write the drivers then install it when it is needed ??

    probably i was thinking of getting Vista but since you written soooo much about XP then i might take XP, then in the near future when there is less problems with vista i will install vista and then i will be on my way to happniess lol.

    my second reason of getting vista is for the direct X 10 thats why....

    i will be getting 5 HDs, 4 of them will be RAID 0

    80GB X2 (RAID 0)
    250GB X2 (RAID 0)
    500 GB

    now i dont know how to write it down easier but i hope you get it.

    you said you can make partitions for the drives....... so if i make both of the 80GB a RAID 0..... and then i make another RAID for the 2, 250GB HD....... will there be 1 Drive or 2 drives (one for the 80GB and the second for the 250GB)




    one last thing........ i will be getting the EVGA mother board. (somewhere in this thread i wrote it down)... is it XP and Vista compatible ??
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
  8. CrAsHnBuRnXp

    CrAsHnBuRnXp

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    My comments in bold.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
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  9. CrAsHnBuRnXp

    CrAsHnBuRnXp

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    Your hard drive setup is sorta like mine.

    Mine setup:
    80GB X2 (RAID 0)
    250GB (working on a RAID 0)
    300GB

    Both the 80GB hard drives will merge into one big 160GB drive that will be recognized as about 149GB. The 2x250's will work the same way. So the 2x80GB hard drives will turn into one massive single drive as will the 2x250's. So in total, it will show up as 3 single hard drives in "My Computer".
     
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  10. tostator New Member

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    You can install both xp and vista and make dual boot using a program like Partition Magic or other like that. You must create 2 primary partitions and enable Partition magic Boot Manager. Then you can choose from which partition you want to boot and install each OS in its own partition. I can't confirm the exact procedure to do so, but it is basically like I explained. I'm sure that googling a litlle you should find a tuto about Partition Magic.

    I'm going to do a boot like for my new PC when my parts arrive :cry: If I build it before you, I could explain step by step the procedure, if you are interested.

    Greetings from Barcelona :)
     
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  11. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    thnx alot

    so you mean with the partition, is that you can have XP and Vista on one computer but on different hard drive right ??............

    and then on the start up screen you can choose which OS you want the computer to start with..... for example, u have xp on one hd, and vista on the second one.... so on the start up screen you choose xp or vista then it will load up that OS and anything you put on the desktop while in any one OS, it will use up that hard drive's space..... i think this is what you mean.... i hope

    and like crashnburn said Vista 64bit has more support so i will be getting only one OS....srry if i broken any XP lover's heart but i think Vista 64 is better (like crashnburn said) and it looks cool as well and also it supports Direct X 10 so... lol....

    lol tostator greetings from Australia too lol
     
  12. tostator New Member

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    You can have vista and xp in diferents Hard drives or in the same hard drive as you like.
    First of all, if you have 2 drives in raid 0 they are like if they were only one (think about they like only one). Then, the thing is to create in that disk 2 (or more if you wish) partitions (to hold a OS they should be primary partitions, not logical if I'm not wrong). The thing is that to hold 2 OS always one of the partition must be invisible because if not, it could be problems. For instance: you have one 100 Gb HD, then you create 2 primary partitions (50% each one) in order to install 2 OS. You will only see one 50 Gb HD, the other is hidden. When you boot your computer, it will appear a screen when you choose wich partition do you wish to boot from. The Boot manager then hide one and unhide the other and load the OS you choosed.

    It seems difficult, but it isn't actually.

    My english is not quite good, as you see. Excuse my bad writing and grammar :eek:
     
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  13. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    dont worry i understand completely what you mean because my freind has done the same thing .......... but if i choosed to have only one OS and made one partition in the harddrive, then do i have to split the HD's space in half....... for example if i have a 100gb HD. i put vista 64 bit on it, then do i have to split the hd's space into 50gb each or i can i make it like 10gb for OS and 90gb for normal use... is this possible ??
    if yes, then the 10gb will be hidden and the 90gb will be shown only....rite ??

    and i know what you mean by RAID 0.
     
  14. Shyska New Member

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    One does not need ANY program to make dual boot PC with XP and Vista. Only thing you must do is keep this order while installing: first XP, second Vista. Vista will recognize your XP install and make a boot menu for you to choose during normal computer startup. Just plan layout of your disk partitioning before any installation so that you don't end up with ridiculously large partition for one and too small for another.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
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  15. Shyska New Member

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    You can split it any way you like, but keep in mind that if you make Windows partition too small, you'll have too increase it later and that is at most scenarios a potential hazard. Generally with one disk setup you'd make 2 or 3 partitions - 1 for OS, 1 for data and optional one for Virtual Ram. For two OS'es there would be 3 or 4 partitions accordingly (1 additional for additional OS). Keep in mind - you'll probably keep all your programs (except games) with your OS.

    No partition should be hidden. XP and Vista both will use NTFS file system, you'll see what is on every partition. Prior to that if you had lets say Windows 98 (on fat32) and XP (on NTFS), your Windows 98 wouldn't see XP partotion. That is simply not the case now.
     
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  16. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    ok i understand (a bit), what is virtual Ram anyway ??

    ok, if i have 2 80gb hd and made them into RAID 0 . then how much estimated or exatcly would i have to partition for the OS and how much for Data and how much for Virtual RAM.

    how much space does the OS take anyway ??

    the other thing is im not taking XP im taking Vista 64 bit (4gb of RAM) so when i see how much does the OS take, then ill probably calculate what type of HD should i buy.........

    if it takes too much then ill be choosing 2 150gb hds with enough space for OS (i hope) and computer programs like internet security, registry mechanic, itunes, quicktime etc.... and for virtual RAM and make it into a RAID 0........

    then ill buy 2 250 gb hd for media: music, Games, music videos, media centre etc and make it into a RAID 0...........

    then ill buy a 750 gb hd or bigger for backup......

    and i heard that XP 64 bit has less support then the Vista 64-bit.....so thats why im only choosing Vista.... then in the future ill might chose XP if it gets more support.....
     
  17. Shyska New Member

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    Virtual RAM - a file where windows reallocate memory from RAM when programs are not actively using it for a while, or system is running low on memory. Thus it is very important to have fast access to VRAM. To avoid fragmentation in the VRAM file (pagefile.sys - you can look it up in your own root drive) it is sometimes good idea to put it on individual partition (though some would argue with me on this :rolleyes:). I'd make it 2.5x your RAM size with initial page file of 1xRAM and maximum of ~2.45xRAM). This partition should be as possible close to the center of the disk.

    My Vista "Windows" directory takes 7.85GB (after 2.5 months of use), "Users" ("documents and settings" in XP) takes <1GB. 20GB should be minimum, but OK for most uses if you'll put your documents and games on another partition. XP requires less space, almost twice.

    Anyway, i understand you are getting only one OS and another RAID for your documents and games. So you have all disk for OS and Vista allows to dynamicaly shrink/extend its partition on the fly with built in tools (start->control panel->administrative tools->computer management->Storage->disk management).

    I seriously doubt XP 64 will get any more support than it has right now, but Vista will get it no doubts. Unfortunately i have no exprerience with Vista 64 except some crapy one in beta :rolleyes: But it loaded good bunch of apps those days, should be a lot better these days ;)
     
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  18. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    ok 20 gb is enough for the OS.......... for Vista, it can automatically shrink or extend the size of the partition if the size of the partition is too small or too large...right ?? if yes then that is really helpful to some people because they might give the OS alot of space and have less space for their own use.....

    so if i put all the comuter files in one RAID HD (80gb x2) including OS and my school work,
    and put all the media like games, music , music videos etc on the other RAID hd
    (250gb X2)......... is this idea good or bad ??

    is making RAID same in vista as it is in XP, like grimskull wrote down ??
     
  19. Shyska New Member

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    Right, you can install OS on one and media to other, with one OS it is good setup. Though you will probably want to make some pagefile defragmentation (delete it and recreate as continuous file) after install.

    Making RAID is simple, you won't necessary have to install (hopefully) any additional drivers. There is a guide how to do it: Install Windows Vista on RAID. Keep in mind that your BIOS and RAID configuration menu may differ, but main points of the review stays valid in most scenarios.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2007
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  20. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    ok thanks for the vista help....... but how would you create a page file..... ? (sorry not good in computers)

    and this is a very very very very good, nice, easy and understandable editorial.....thanks man i really appreciate it !!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2007
  21. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    can u plz tell me how 2 create a page file ??
     
  22. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    Windows creates one automatically. You can move it, or resize once you install tho. The method changes depending on XP or Vista.
     
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  23. Rey17

    Rey17 New Member

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    k man thanks
     
  24. Shyska New Member

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    Page file is created automatically, but you can change its location, resize or delete. (I do not advice deleting it)

    For such options go to Control Panel(classic view)->System->Advanced system settings->Performance section "Settings" button->Advanced tab->Virtual memory section "Advanced" button.
     
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  25. Grimskull New Member

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    windows creates page files automatically, you can resize it but dont delete them, you will have problems if you do!

    For the money you got you should end up with a beast of a PC! You probably have a better PC than everyone here!!! The new AM2+ are out and the new Intels are coming soon so you have a wider range, your starting into PC's at the right time, loads of new technology coming out soon.

    The new AM2+ motherboard can take up to 4 HD 3800 series cards, but if you do get them i reckon half of Oz be blacked out when you press the power button!!!!

    The new Intels are very good too..... if you had either in your case you would have a beast of a PC!

    EDIT: With XP you need a floppy to make a RAID setup, but with Vista you can use a USB pendrive to load the drivers to make the RAID so saves having to buy a floppy for the one time that you are gonna use it! Also with at 64bit OS it can see the full 4GB of RAM.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007

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