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Discussion in 'System Builder's Advice' started by bruins004, May 8, 2007.

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  1. bruins004 New Member

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    Sounds like good ideas.
    I will add that PSU to the section.
    After taking some looks at it, it isnt a bad one.

    1. An SLI Ready PSU is a PSU that comes with 2 PCI-Express connectors.
    However, these PSUs are not mandatory to run SLI, however, you will need a PCI-Express to Molex Coneverter if you wish to run an SLI rig without an SLI PSU.

    2. I only know about a certain amount of mobos so I will need help with this section. I know the DS3 and the 680 chipsets are pretty good, as well as the BadAxe. After that I dont know too much else.

    3 - 4. Thats a good idea. I want to add more sections, but I also want to finish the current ones that are up there as well. About the cooling section, I only have used air cooling so I wont be able to include water or phase cooling w/o some help of course.]

    EDIT: I will update this thread as soon as I can. I am shooting for today, however, if not today than Monday I def. will be able to.
    Keep rolling those ideas in here guys and any help you can give is always welcome.
     
  2. bruins004 New Member

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    Updated the GPU section.
    I still have to finish it though, but the Budget, Intermediate and High End are pretty much done.
     
  3. ktr

    ktr

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  4. surfsk8snow.jah

    surfsk8snow.jah

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  5. DrunkenMafia

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    There is some really good info there bruins.... very nice thread mate. I was unaware of the problem with some 2ms lcd's getting stuck. That is a handy hint.

    Good work :rockout:
     
  6. bruins004 New Member

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    Thanks man :)
    I always like helping people out.

    With the 2ms LCD problems I found it kind of funny myself.
    About a year ago they started to come out with these monitors (almost every company did).
    And the funny thing (well kind of if you didnt own one) was that the monitor couldnt handle the fast responses and often got stuck so you had a infinite response time :roll:

    Anyways, sorry for the lack of updates, but like usual, I dont post on the weekends at TPU.
    But you have me during the week.

    Can anyone help me with the mobo section since that is my weak area in computers
    Thanks again guys for the feedback.
     
  7. bruins004 New Member

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    Just an update guys.
    All sections are done except the following:
    VII. Motherboard Buyers Guide
    VIII. Hard Drive Buyers Guide
    IX. Cooling Buyers Guide
     
  8. Zeratul_uy

    Zeratul_uy New Member

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    Excellent ^^ it helped me a lot, thx :D
     
  9. anticlutch

    anticlutch New Member

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    Did you mean the VX Revolution? or the MX?
     
  10. bruins004 New Member

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    Nice catch.
    It is suppose to be the VX Revolution.
    Fixed.

    Thanks for looking through it

    Always glad I can help.

    By the way what did you choose to get?
     
  11. surfsk8snow.jah

    surfsk8snow.jah

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    WE'VE BEEN STICKIED!!! w000000t! Big ups to bruins004!
    I should hopefully be able to post some mobos stuff tomorrow morn - it's a lil late atm. I've been researching a little bit lately, so I'll offer at least what I know.
    Congrats again! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
     
  12. bruins004 New Member

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    Haha thanks man.
    Hey you have helped out quite a bit too so congrads to you too.
    I appreciate the help and I am always open to it since I want to learn too.

    EDIT: I also have added a sub-section to each section called "Basics".
    Pretty much this section will help users understand the basics of how each component works.
    I already have this done for PSUs, GPUs and LCDs.
    I am going to add it for CPUs, Motherboards, Hard Drives, RAM and Cooling Devices :)

    If you believe any else should be added just let me know.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2007
  13. suraswami

    suraswami

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    Nice Thread bruins004.

    Could you also add some TV tuners (preferably HD tuners) and Video capture cards for those Media Center PC fans?

    And also some media center specific cases. I have a Ahanix and it is wonderful.

    I am trying to add a HD tuner card and would benefit if you can add information about HD tuners.:toast:

    Thanks.
     
  14. bruins004 New Member

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    Good Idea.
    Unfortunately I dont know too much about tuner cards myself.

    Also, as for cases, I was going to include this section, however, there are some many cases and people usually prefer different types that it really doesnt matter which case you pick, just as long as you have proper cooling in your case.
    I would suggest though that it should have at least 3 fans if you going for air cooling.
    This is pretty standard these days as most cases have 1 front fan and 1 side fan for an intake and 1 back fan for exhaust.

    EDIT: I unfort. couldnt update much today (way too busy).
    I will update more tomorrow, however, I am almost done with the DDR2 section and I am looking to moving onto cooling and HDs :)
     
  15. GJSNeptune

    GJSNeptune New Member

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    Regarding cases, you could remind people to make sure the case they have in mind supports the motherboard they're considering. Make sure they match mATX to mATX, or that the ATX case has the holes for mATX, etc.

    Also describe intake vs. exhaust for air-cooled and other stuff about cases. Doors, HDD racks, I dunno. Or maybe just add a Cooling section. :p
     
  16. bruins004 New Member

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    Yea I was looking to add the intake vs. exhaust in the Cooling Section I have.

    But you do bring up a good point about the doors, HDDs, and the other items.
    Not a bad idea.
    I will add the section and will work on it later on.
     
  17. bruins004 New Member

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    Ok guys its a late update today due to the busy day.
    I just finished the RAM basics part.
    Obv. it is more confusing than the other parts.

    Please let me know if I can word parts of this section differently if it does not make sense.
    I will add a little more tomorrow for frequencies of RAM.

    After that I will move onto HDDs.
     
  18. surfsk8snow.jah

    surfsk8snow.jah

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    Ya I've been busy too man. But here's some stuff to hopefully help out:

    DDR2 Section: 1) Mention somewhere in this article that DDR & GDDR are totally different and are 100% uncorrelated to each other.
    2)
    Here's a more indepth explanation of memory timings I found, in case you want to use it or pull from it:
    "
    CAS:

    CAS is Column Address Strobe or Column Address Select. CAS controls the amount of time (in cycles (2, 2.5,& 3) between receiving a command and acting on that command. Since CAS primarily controls the location of HEX addresses, or memory columns, within the memory matrix, this is the most important timing to set as low as your system will stably accept it. There are both rows and columns inside a memory matrix. When the request is first electronically set on the memory pins, the first triggered response is tRAS (Active to Precharge Delay). Data requested electronically is precharge, and the memory actually going to initiate RAS is activation. Once tRAS is active, RAS, or Row Address Strobe begins to find one half of the address for the required data. Once the row is located, tRCD is initiated, cycles out, and then the exact HEX location of the data required is accessed via CAS. The time between CAS start and CAS end is the CAS latency. Since CAS is the last stage in actually finding the proper data, it's the most important step of memory timing.

    tRCD:

    Also known as RAS to CAS Delay, in addition to Column Address Strobe, there is Row Address Strobe. CAS and RAS combined allow for the exact location of memory blocks. There is an interval between RAS (activated when data is first requested) and CAS (activated when RAS is complete), as memory can't locate a block precisely in a single stage. tRCD is the cycle time between the first stage in memory access, the row strobe, and the second stage. However, the performance impact of this setting is often neglible, as memory tries to store data from programs in sequential order. It tries to keep the same row for a single program, and ordered columns to reduce the time for tRCD.

    tRP:

    Also known as RAS Precharge, this is the amount of time it takes for memory to terminate the access in one row and begin another. To put it simply, after data is set to the pins and activates tRAS, then RAS, tRCD, and CAS; the memory needs to terminate its current row and start all over at tRAS. This is the very basic function of how memory works. This is only an important setting when you're doing massive shifting in data, for example - working with large virtual buffers or video rendering. At that point, several rows are being consumed by a single program, and its advantageous for the program to be able to switch quickly between these rows.

    tRAS:

    Also known as Active to Precharge Delay, this is the time between receiving a request for data electronically on the pins of a memory module and then initiating RAS to start the actual retrieval of data. This command seems important, but really it isn't. Memory access is a very dynamic thing. Sometimes memory is being hit hard, and other times very sporadically. Though at all times, memory access is at constant, therefore, it is rare that the tRAS command is received to access new data (such as a substantial change, like opening a new program). "
    This is obviously a little more in depth, maybe too much for "Basics," but whatever you can pull is good. The current explanation you put up for the tRP is a little confusing.
    Or just use the techPowerUp! explanation: http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/AMD/memory/131
     
  19. surfsk8snow.jah

    surfsk8snow.jah

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    3)Cooling:
    Here's some help there. It's probably not very organized, or perfectly coherent, but here's something to go off of:

    Cooling Can Be Either Passive or Active.
    Passive (Conduction & Free Convection) - Generally Heatsinks that disperse heat through metal fins into the ambient environment. These generate no sound.
    Active (Forced Convection) - Forces flow of air or liquid past the object needing cooling (or a heatsink attached to it), e.g. - fans. This is always more efficient than Passive Cooling. There are always inherent noise levels as sound is generated.

    Here are the 3 most popular options for cooling:
    I)Air Cooling - Currently the best is the ThermalRight Ultra-120 eXtreme, with the Tuniq Tower & ThermalRight Ultra-120 following closely behind. Here's a picture of benchmarks with all the leading air coolers right now:
    [​IMG]
    here's another image of the top leading fans: temperature vs. overclocking speed on Intel Core 2 Duo X6800 [from anandtech]:
    [​IMG]
    and the link to the review:
    http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2981&p=3
    Zalmans are cheaper and self-contained (don't need to buy a fan) and pretty, Tuniq is self-contained but a little more expensive, TR Ultras are not self-contained and most expensive (but best performance).

    II) Peltier (Thermoelectric) Cooling - "They have a Thermoelectric plate attached to them. In simple terms, a peltier (or TEC as it's sometimes called) is basically 2 disimilar metals fused together, and when you apply voltage to them a certain way, one side gets hot and the other gets cold. On the Ultra. the cold side goes on the cpu, and the hot side gets cooled by heatpipes and the heatsink. It's all controlled by the bay accessory that they give you, to ensure that the pelt doesn't get below ambient temps, and cause condensation." - qtd. Wile_E :: Generally pretty expensive, upwards of $100.

    III) Water/Liquid Cooling - I have no experience with this, and know very little about it. All I know is that flowing liquid is the best possible means of cooling anything, especially a liquid with a high specific heat (thus radiator fluid vs. water in cars, etc.). As to application to computers, there's a lot of technical details I do not know.

    There are also other coolers that are worth looking at, especially if overclocking or using high performance components: Northbridge/Southbridge Coolers, DIMM coolers , HDD coolers, VGA Coolers, Mosfet Coolers.


    Fans: Pay attention to CFM (Cubic Feet Per Minute) Rating - want high, RPMS (Rotations per Minute) - want variable, dB (decibel - sound intensity) rating - want low, fan size - large = low frequency noise (deep humming), small = high frequency noise (high pitch screaming).


    Hopefully I should be able to throw some mobo info up soon. School's keepin me busy atm. Hope this helps.
     
  20. bruins004 New Member

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    Very nice and descriptive.
    I am afraid that might confuse people so I just wanted to sum it up in one sentence and give them the basics.

    As for the cooling section, very nice.
    I have to look into more, but I skimmed over it and it looks good.
    Once I finish the HDD section I will start with the cooling.
     
  21. bruins004 New Member

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    Ok had some time to work on this.
    Finished the CPU basics section.
    Added Ram speeds to the DDR basics section.

    Also, began the HD section and I am almost done.
    I just have to finish the RAID section.
     
  22. surfsk8snow.jah

    surfsk8snow.jah

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    Best resource I've found for explanation of RAID setups in two years:
    http://www.acnc.com/raid.html

    Wikipedia's (not to shabby) attempt:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_RAID_levels

    Remember to note that RAID 0 is not really a true RAID array. It doesn't have data redundancy, as it simply stripes data across two drives to take advantage of reading from both drives concurrently (faster).

    Go back through and re-read the whole thing once. There's a few typos (minor thing), and the tRP explanation under memory timings is chopped up somehow.

    Looks good tho. Keep it coming, and you'll have to start chargin people for this. :)
     
  23. bruins004 New Member

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    Haha thanks.
    As for the RAIDs, I used to set them up all the time, so I dont really need a link for them.

    I havent read through the whole thing yet, just bits and pieces.
    It would help if you could point it out as it is getting hard to update this week since I have been extremely busy and have little time to re-read through it.
     
  24. suraswami

    suraswami

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  25. bruins004 New Member

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    This can be useful.
    I will refer to it later on when I decide to add this section since I still have 3 main sections left (mobos, cooling and cases).

    EDIT: Just updated and finished the Hard Drive section.
     

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