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Not a flame war...trying to prove a point

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by JATownes, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. JATownes

    JATownes

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    Ok...so I have a co-worker/buddy that is ready to spend almost $3500 to buy a Mac Pro. He does ALOT of Audio/Video encoding and has been convinced by some Mac Fanboys that the Mac Pro is the BEST for a/v encoding...I am trying to convince him that the MacPro is a waste and better performance for the price could be had from a custom PC...I do not do a/v encoding, as I am a gamer/bencher...but here is what I have come up with...Any AV guys out there in the TPU Universe please advise if some parts need to be swapped for better performance...

    Mac Pro
    [​IMG]

    Keep in mind this has NO RAID, a single HD4870, 6GB of RAM but not in dual channel, ad no Blu-ray

    [​IMG]

    I went for the most expensive parts I could find to prove a point of how OVER PRICED the Mac is...so what am I missing that makes the Mac so much better?? Throw in an OS on the PC and it still beats the Mac (price-wise) by $300-400.

    IF we can convince him to go the PC route, I get to help with the build...Build Log anyone??

    Thanks in advance...I just don't want this guy to spend a chunk of $$$ that is TOTALLY not necessary...
     
  2. Sir_Real

    Sir_Real New Member

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    A mac is only a pc running osx with an apple logo slapped on the case.

    So compairing components your custom rig wins hands down.
     
  3. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Just as he doesn't need that Mac Pro (or maybe he does, because his apps work on it), he probably doesn't need an EVGA X58 Classified, a Xonar D2X, an HD 4870 (unless he's using some unreleased ATI Stream/OpenCL encoders), Sidewinder keyboard/mouse, or a 1000+W PSU to power the system, either.
     
  4. JATownes

    JATownes

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    Agreed...I was just trying to show how overpriced the Mac was for what it was...suggestions for the "best" a/v encoding machine when there is no budget issue?? He runs the audio/video for a fairly large church so A/V is the main purpose and I don't have a clue what to look for...as I said...I am a gamer :D...
     
  5. 3volvedcombat

    3volvedcombat New Member

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    If im not mistakin, i belive Apple/Mac software and operating systems, were maid for encoding, but now theres more programs out there for windows that allows PC'z to become even faster then MAC'z. Tell your freind this. When it comes to PC's they are easier to fix, better quality, and cheaper. 1 note. When it comes to that motherboard in that selection. Its piontless. Get a UD5 Gigabyte motherboard, the seem to overclock just right. An EVGAx58classified is piontless. your paying 100-200 dollars more for a 10% more overclock. And thats were you start hitting LN2 and Water. But on air find a nice ud5p mobo x58 shit, and hook him up with with the i7 920, and the thors hamma, and go overclock it to 3.5Ghz stable. Get some ddr3 1600Mhz ram and tear the shit out of the rig. Raid0 or 1 the hardrives, and get a silverstone case. I acctualy got a case in mind T_T. If i was building a nice rig get a Silver stone Raven 2 case. Its better then the Raven 1 and is more sleek lined desktopish for media arts and encoding enthusiast that want clean, showfull, but hardcore quality.
     
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  6. method526 New Member

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    i agree. i mean i'm not gonna sh!t on macs, but i just dont prefer them. also, no need for the sidewinder stuff...it wont improve his editing ;]
     
  7. JATownes

    JATownes

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    Yea...I just picked the Sidewinder equipment because that is what I use...and I love them :D
     
  8. 95Viper

    95Viper

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    στο άλφα έως ωμέγα
    JATownes says thanks.
  9. JATownes

    JATownes

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    BTW 95Viper...Love the avatar
     
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  10. 3volvedcombat

    3volvedcombat New Member

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    http://efixna.com/Home.html
    wow that EFX Mulitboot thing is PRO. MAC JUST GOT RAPED AT ITS OWN GAME..... :toast:
    Build you freind a i7 rig when those boot usp virtual things get into amd and i7 rigs. Or better yet build him the dam i7 rig then when that USB Device gets improved, tell him to buy it if he so needs to have OS-X on that PC :)
     
  11. vbx New Member

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    Um, the HP Blackbird cost $4 grand.
    The AlienWare X58 cost $3500.

    Apple isn't the only company that charges a hefty price for quality product.

    If I were to spend over 2400 for a desktop. I would pick up a one those those instead of a custom built desktop.

    The front panel layouts of my Sony Desktop is a lot better then any of the custom built desktop I've seen. Everything just fits and laid out perfectly.

    The case of the factory named desktop just looks more pimped. Especially the blackbird and Alenware. The Mac looks nice to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  12. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    Where is the Dual socket 1366 motherboard and Xeon on the PC build? Both of those come at a price premium...

    Where is the operating system for the PC?

    The Mac Pro is a workstation, try comparing it to some other pre-built workstations and you will find the prices are similar. Building your own will always likely be cheaper, if you know what you are doing. However, the Mac Pro and other pre-builts will come with support. Even if the warranty is expired, the product will still be supported, though at an extra price. When you build your own, the only support you get comes from yourself. That is fine if you know what you are doing, but for the average user it doesn't work out so well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
    Woody112, Guru Janitor and tong say thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  13. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    newtekie1 is right. You aint building him a better rig for cheaper. You are just building a cheaper rig.
     
  14. YinYang.ERROR

    YinYang.ERROR New Member

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    Macs are just expensive PCs with an expensive version of linux installed on them, and commercial support.

    @3volvedcombat: that efx multiboot looks kinds cool.
     
  15. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    Exactly. Many people miss the fact that Macs are equipped with what amounts to server hardware. If you bought the same exact cpu, same chipset, and the same quality case and peripherals, not to mention the same functionality in software, you spend almost as much as just buying the Mac Pro to begin with.

    If I ever planned on buying a dual cpu capable Workstation to use for serious tasks, I probably wouldn't bother with building my own, I'd just buy a Mac Pro, as I wouldn't be OCing a system that needs that 100% stability guaranty anyway, so there'd be no real benefit to building my own. The Mac Pro would be quicker and easier to get bought, to my door, and up and running.

    Now since I don't have any serious needs like that, I do a lot of encoding, but that's for personal stuff, and not super important, I'm personally going to be building an EFix system. Anybody that's interested in going that route needs to make sure they do their research tho. Efix only works with very specific hardware.
     
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  16. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Yup. Even though that Mac Pro has only one processor, the motherboard can most likely accept two. Xeon processors cost a lot more than mainstream and the motherboards are about twice as much for similarly equipped. Custom built will always be cheaper until you figure in labor, warranty, and software.

    Judging by the memory and clockspeed, I'd say it is a dual socket LGA-1366 and one Intel Xeon W3520 (one-way) or Intel Xeon X5550 (two-way). Obviously, if you're never going to put the second processor in, you might as well just go with X58.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
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  17. KingPing

    KingPing

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    Some points to consider:

    *You can always build a faster or equal PC for a similar or lower price.
    *The mac has a dual socket mobo, so it should be compared to another dual socket mobo.
    *Why choose the 1 CPU mac? upgrading later wll either void the warranty (by doing it yourself) or the cost will be absurd. Personally i think the 2 CPUs mac is the way to go.
    *SUPORT is the key. I swear to my self not to build a custom PC for anyone, i will help, but i will not build it, why you may ask? well, because people expect you to fix all the tiny problems that appear, why: because they don't know how to deal with them and they are not willing to learn (i know that sounds bad, and bla bla bla, but do you know what happens to a 8800GTS 320 when no one clean it during 7 months, 1 inch of dust and some s##t, of course it will fry!:slap:, and how about disconecting things while the PC is on, o, now it doesn't work, go figure!:slap:, and one i like very much, i told you that PSU was a piece of ####!:slap:, and it goes on)

    My best advice is: if your friend is willing to deal with problems that might or not occour, then >cutom build, but if he doesn't know about computers software and hardware, then > Mac, HP, DELL whatever you like.
    Because your friend use the PC or Mac to WORK, not for gaming, and if the worst happen (and S##T HAPENNS) and your friend needs help, you would have to help him.

    I'm sorry if i seem to negative, but some of my friends and relatives expected me to clean their PCs, and i will tell you more, my grandfather who is 84, bought 5 PCs in the last 5 years, one more crapier than the other. you may think that he is some sort of Old PC freak:rockout: who knows a lot, hell even i will think that, but NO:(, he seems to be forgetting all, he asked me what is the start button in windows:eek:. and he call me like every week, some more, at the most inconvenient time to ask stuff like that:banghead:

    Conclusion: Most of the people here will never buy prebuild, including me, but that does not apply to all. And we build or stuff because we know how:toast:.
    I'm not saying you shouldn't help, i'm saying know where you are getting into, thats all.

    PS: I only like the Macs pro and HP workstation (mainly the case) but i will never replace my PC with a Mac.
     
  18. jessicafae

    jessicafae New Member

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    You're right the MacPro configuration above is strange, it is $3250 for a single processor MacPro with a 4870 and two over priced 1TB drives(come on apple $300 for a 1TB drive). If the guy wants a mac for video editing/encoding he is much better off with the $3299 dual socket machine and the standard GTS120 (aka 9500gt) card and don't buy hard drives from apple. For video editing/encoding the dual processors will help. The $3299 Mac Pro has dual XEON processors (not desktop i7 chips) and this apple/intel dual socket motherboard has 4 PCI-e x16 slots (2 slots at x16 electrical and 2 slots at x4 electrical but all 4 slots at x16 mechanical).

    Exactly, a more comparable system would have a motherboard like the ASUS Z8PE-D18(ASMB4-IKVM) which is a $529.99 12"x13" SSI EEB 3.x, dual socket, 4 PCI-e x16 slot motherboard, add in a second i7 920 (another $280) and replace the ATX case with an 12" x 13" SSI server case (about the same price) and add a legal copy of windows ($150). This adds $570 to the PC build price bringing it about the same as the $3299 Mac Pro. Technically one should be using the same XEON processor (2.26ghz 5520 XEON which is $384 x2) which adds an additional $208 to the PC build making it more expensive than the MacPro.

    Yes the macbooks and iMacs are a bit overpriced for their specs, but the high-end dual-socket MacPro is a workstation/server like Wile E and newtekie1 said.

    For the purpose of this post, I think this video-editing/encoding person is much better off with a $3299 dual socket MacPro workstation, add on the Apple 3 year warranty, skip the 4870, and buy hardrives from NewEgg. I think anyone who is thinking of spending >$3000 on a workstation class machine, is not going to be worrying about +/- a few hundred dollars. The MacPro will also have better resale value in 3 years than the PC build. He should not buy the MacPro build above.

    For the record I have a Mac workstation at my work-place and at home I have a Win7 PC I built from parts. They are both great computers and I have no problem recommending either depending on what a person is looking for.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  19. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Call it a PC or workstation, it's a computer, with ridiculous value for features/performance. Since it's a single-processor system, you can use a Xeon W3000 series 2.66 GHz processor atop a $300 ASUS P6T WS Professional, and call it a workstation (that still qualifies as one).
     
  20. grunt_408

    grunt_408

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    People irritate me when they say "I am going to get a MAC they are the best" Now I just say "Whatever floats your boat , you obviously have money to burn" For the price of a MAC you can have yourself one hell of a beast PC that can be custom built to handle your needs.

    Edit: Come to think of it you could have 2 PC's for the price of the MAC :p As everyone here knows :)
     
  21. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

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    thats where I cant agree with you - I'm not saying your wrong but personally Since I know that among where I live, my friends & my huge family (6 uncles, around 8-10 aunties & their kids, I am the most experienced & the most tech knowledgable one & that to me carries some responsibilty wheather you choose to accept it or not.

    I like being around my friends & family - I like helping people with their problems if I can even if they are not friends or family - secondly if your moaning about your friends moaning that something that you built is not working correctly then you my friend are doing it wrong.

    I dont mind if my auntie or friend calls me up & says somethings not working & I can narrow down what the problem is in my head after asking a few question & understand if its a big or small problem, I dont mind at all - the people that I build systems for probably didnt know how to look after their pc properly but after a small talk about regular virus scans & other stuff - I havent had to call me up in months. but I pop around now n again to see them anyway & I sort out whatever issues they have. once youve told them a few times, they will learn just like anyone else unless they have a memory span of a goldfish & forget whatever youve told them as soon as you step out the door to go home.


    being a custom system builder it is you who sets the standard of the quality of your builds, & if people are complaining about things going wrong then you need to set your standards higher, not to meet other peoples expectations - its just so that you have some peice of mind that the rig you build can withstand being thrown out of a window, hit by a car then set on fire & carried 100miles south underneath the wheels of a train before being swallowed up by a great big fucking whale & spat out somewhere in the sahara desert & still work when its plugged into a camel.

    your thinking is also somewhat flawed - just because you didnt build it doesnt mean that people/friends/family wont ask you for help when their pc that comes from DELL or <Insert OEM Here> goes wrong, or is that what your saying???


    custom building & support shouldnt be a chore. Much love goes into my system builds & my support. so dont knock it just because you dont have what it takes to do it.
     
  22. tigger

    tigger I'm the only one

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    I've built pc's for two or three mates,they know full well not to come running to me with every silly problem.I build it but theres no 24/7 free support.
     
  23. jessicafae

    jessicafae New Member

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    How about this for a simple recommendation.
    - single processor -> do a PC build
    - dual processor -> get the $3299 MacPro since one can not do better (cheapest dual-processor HP workstation is ~$5300, building a dual-processor box from parts is expensive and troublesome).

    for serious video editing/encoding (ie 24/7 workflows) a dual processor machine will be better than a single processor machine until the multi-core Larabee/GPU solutions get mainstream. For casual editing/encoding a fast single-processor is good-enough.
     
  24. DRDNA

    DRDNA

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    The best thing about a MAC is the damn comercials...Other than that a PC in MHO is faster, more compatible , way cheaper to upgrade, Just all around better....The only reason to go Mac would be use of software that wont run on PC, but with that being said I can't think of any apps that a PC doesn't have a equivalent solution to.
     
  25. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

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    what happend to quad processors?? :confused::confused::confused:
     

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