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Not a flame war...trying to prove a point

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by JATownes, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. jessicafae

    jessicafae New Member

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    MHO a linux compute farm of blade or rack servers is better than any Mac or PC and a Petaflop super computer beats them all. So what is the point here. There is nothing wrong with either the Mac or the PC, they are what they are, just as there is nothing wrong with the PS3, Xbox360 or a $300 EEEpc. People buy Macs for different reasons than people buy PCs just as people have different reasons for buying a $5000 workstation or a $100,000 compute cluster. I thought the point of this thread was recommending a computer for serious video/audio encoding. For this a dual processor machine is better and the $3299 MacPro is a very good choice.
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  2. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

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    HajiMe MaShiTe, Genki desu ka?
  3. CJCerny

    CJCerny

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    These kinds of discussions are completely pointless unless we know what his preferred software is for doing his work. If he has tried lots of different A/V editing tools and prefers Final Cut Pro over anything else, then he needs to get a Mac because it's a Mac only product. If his tools of choice are available on both PC and Mac, then and only then do you stand a chance of covincing him that the PC is a faster and cheaper way to go. My point is that many people choose the Mac because they prefer the software--I suspect they're all well-aware that the hardware is more expensive.
  4. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    Uprading the CPU or anything in a Mac will not void the warranty. However, Apple will not warranty the old part you are replacing or the new part. However, everything else will still be warrantied.

    Personally, I would get the basic Mac Pro and upgrade it myself, no need to pay $300 for 1TB drives when you can get them for under $100 elsewhere(actually I just bought two 1.5TB drives for $99.99).
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  5. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    You're totally right about the Mac being an overpriced waste of money.

    For video encoding, you really just need the fastest processor around and the fastest graphics card, as that's where the most power is needed. If you can get a boost using SLI or Crossfire, then so much the better. I don't know if you can on video encoding, so please research it before spending any money!

    Maxing out the PC parts cost makes your point well, but I think that if you do another price list with cheaper components will reinforce your point. Just max out on the CPU & GPU -requirement not that much different to game playing, really. Two GTX 295s in SLI will likely smoke anything else on video encoding with nvidia's Badaboom software and will cost a damn sight less, too. It'll leave the Mac in the dust, of course. :D Then make the comparison with the Mac and watch your friend's jaw drop.

    Also, am I right in saying that with Apple, you void the warranty if you open the case? That's a real dealbreaker for Apple right there in my book. Wanna put an extra gig of ram in there? That'll be an extra $300 for the Apple store to do it. :laugh: And you don't even get to choose which RAM goes in. Ridiculous.
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  6. jessicafae

    jessicafae New Member

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    An i7-920 is a quad-core processor. A dual-processor system has 2 sockets each having a quad-core processor. There are only a handful of quad-processor systems out there and they are expensive (HP DL500 is a quad-processor system each processor can have 4 or 6 cores).
  7. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

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    ah my bad, I misunderstood your earlier post.
  8. Fitseries3

    Fitseries3 Eleet Hardware Junkie

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    not at all.


    macs have no bios and therefore cannnot be overclocked.

    yes it uses standard PC parts but the mac mobo's are far different.

    apple provides updates that update the boards onboard firmwares to keep it running smooth.

    the entire mac computer is based on a highly optimized configuration that allows it to run really well.

    that said....

    its an overpriced, over glorified computer for sure.

    i suggest buying one used if you MUST have one.
  9. farlex85

    farlex85 New Member

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    As usual w/ macs, the hardware for the money isn't great. You can always get the same thing for less in a PC. But as usual w/ macs, software is what sells the platform. If they're doing movie editing Final Cut Pro is an industry standard and it's only for OS X. Sure you could use other things to accomplish the same tasks for cheaper, but many would rather just go w/ the ease and wealth of background already coming pre-packaged w/ the mac.
  10. strick94u

    strick94u New Member

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    Truth is mac people are scared of pc's what with all our bsod and virus/worms and our complacated app's. Don't get me wrong a mac is a pc just like a linux os might scare some windows users. there is one great feature about a mac a year from now his 3200 dollar pc will still maintain its value where as a 3200 pc will be worth a 1000 if your lucky. I have run Photoshop since 1994 on pcs and their are plenty of great apps that will run a/v on mac/win/linux. If you can change his mind to pc you my friend will be the next Zig Ziggler.
    On a personal note I can live with any of the above but I game and want the ability to increase my power as needed. So windows makes it easy:laugh:
  11. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    The $3299 he is paying for is a machine with a single processor, did you realise?

    [​IMG]


    Expensive? Compared to HP and Apple? No. Troublesome? (no, you'll just be installing two processors, and a couple of more memory modules, if that qualifies as troublesome). He can build a dual-processor WS for that price, if he wants to.
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  12. KingPing

    KingPing

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    This post is not about me. I never said: Hey don't build your friend a custom PC. Not everyone is willing to do what you do, that was my point. I study and work, so i can't help my friends and relatives 24/7, this is my problem, and i really like figuring out whats wrong. especially with systems i didn't built , i never had a serious problem with PCs i built (2 are mine, 2 of a very good friends, 1 of my dad, 1 of my brother, they all work and i helped all of them) the others i only give advice about what components to use. The guy who owned the 8800 never clean it, and i told him he have to, what can i do kidnap his PC and clean it?. I explained to that people that it's not like an office PC, and even so he bought it. My Grandfather keeps buying compac PCs, i don't know in the USA but here almost everything voids the warranty, so i can't help him when things goes wrong.

    I say this because at first i told my friends to get high end systems, but i wonder what would happen to a OC i7 and 2 285 sli if the user can't configure it properly (BIOS, drivers, sli, OC,...) Now i ask them very seriously about this sort of things, if they know this or are willing to know. and believe me some are not willing to.

    I respect your opinion, you do it bacause you like it, perfect, but you cannot expect every one else to think like you. I just wanted the guy to realize this is not as simple, maybe he alredy know this and have no problem dealing with this things,in wich case my post was a waste, if not, now i hope he knows.
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  13. jessicafae

    jessicafae New Member

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    Yes I saw that the $3250 MacPro in this discussion is a strange configuration. It is a single 4-core processor with an expensive 4870 and expensive 1TB drive additions (as I said in post #18)

    I am talking about a different MacPro configuration. There is a standard $3299 (different number) configuration on the Mac store for a dual processor machine with 6GB RAM, an Nvidia GTS120, and a single 640GB drive. If you need me to make a screen grab I will do this.

    For $3299 one can buy a dual processor MacPro and this machine is not comparable to a single processor x58 build. It is more comparable to what I and newtekie1 and Willie E are talking about. Today, for serious video editing/encoding a dual-processor machine is better than a single-processor machine (until the GPU/Cuda/OpenCL code gets into mainstream software). Badaboom is cool and the way forward, but we don't know what software this guy is using and he might not be using software that has upgraded to Cuda/OpenCL/GPU yet.

    I am sorry I did not make this clearer. We are talking different MacPro configurations here. Yes Apple is expensive but there are very few dual-processor machines out there. It is a niche market aimed mostly at the video-editing, content-creation professional.

    The basic dual-processor MacPro (the $3299 standard configuration) is a good machine for the price. If we want a fair comparison we should be comparing a good MacPro build against a similar PC build. The MacPro in this discussion is not a good build (apple charges $400 for those two 1TB drives and $200 for the 4870). Mac people know this. One should buy a standard mac from Apple and buy memory and harddrives after-market. The single-processor MacPro is expensive and like I recommended....

    ... if one can get away with a single-processor machine then a PC build is a better choice. If one needs a dual-processor machine for serious work, then the dual-processor $3299 MacPro is a good choice. Most people do not need a dual-processor machine.

    Actually it is good to wait right now because there will be the autumn Mac refresh coming soon, prices will drop and configurations will change. Likely the MacPro will get the GTS220 or GT240 cards Nvidia just released very soon. There might even be an i5 lynnfield MacPro coming soon. For my workplace, we use computing clusters and simple desktop machines (laptops, iMacs or PCs) and skip the dual-processor boxes.

    I apologize for not hating Mac's and being computer agnostic. I hope this post clarifies my point. しょうがない
  14. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    You're Japanese. What the hell do you know about electronics?
  15. jessicafae

    jessicafae New Member

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    ありがとう. Actually I am an American living in Japan, but thanks for the complement.
  16. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    Do you feel like a Gundam warrior being taller than everyone?
  17. KieranD

    KieranD

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    you buy mac for mac software like final cut pro you dont buy it for any other reason
    you may just prefer mac operating systems

    thats it really the video editing software is really good on a mac and its stable

    pcs can have a mix of hardware which can be good and for A/V i would use just a regular keyboard and mouse as its worthless having all those extra needless buttons for what the pc gets used for

    hardware wise pc but mac for its good software and stability its not like you can custom pick a macs hardware like a pcs but that can be a good thing as far as stability goes
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  18. KieranD

    KieranD

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    macs do hold value where as pcs tend to drop in value unless you sell it as a whole unit later on

    at first pcs tend to be better for selling the individual components rather than the full thing but later they drop value so much it becomes worth more as a whole then selling individual
  19. DaveK

    DaveK

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    For home use it's best to just buy a PC at half the price, for a company with money to spend go nuts but personally I'd go for PC.

    To be honest, I don't see how a Core i7 rig, 12GB DDR3 and 2 4890s wouldn't be able to handle video editing, Sony Vegas 9 Pro is the way to go, costs €600 but it's for professional use.

    EDIT: Wait, that's so VAGUE. He does a LOT of video editing? So do I and my dual core rig has been fine with it, it's what he's editing that matters. Is he going to put a video on YouTube or edit a Hollywood blockbuster? A simple quad core rig or even dual core rig is fine for normal video editing with some effects.

    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
  20. Guru Janitor

    Guru Janitor New Member

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    This is the one thing that many PC enthusiasts refuse to understand. Companies, editing enthusiasts, schools, students, all buy macs for the SOFTWARE. They are willing to pay the premium, because the software is better. Many people don't understand that Editing on mac is MUCH more stable then on a PC. For example, a non-linear software option on pc (lets say Avid MC) has to run through twice the code of that as software on a mac (Final Cut). Even on a clean install of XP Pro, Avid crashes more than Final cut does on OSX. And this is coming from personal use as well.
  21. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    And badaboom doesn't have some of the more advanced filters available to use to maximize quality in the same bitrate. Badaboom looks like shit compared to my cpu encoded stuff. Your point is moot. Not to mention, Final Cut is already partially gpu accelerated anyway.

    And no, you don't void the warranty by opening a Mac Pro. You can swap cards, ram, HDDs, cpus, whatever you like. You just lose the warranty on the objects you removed from the computer, which is exactly how ALL oems work anyway. Again, your point is moot.

    Finally, for around the price listed in the OP, he can grab a dual quad core Mac, and smoke your cheaper single cpu PC.

    For the last time, NO YOU CAN'T. Why don't people do some research on this? Build a Workstation around Xeon mobos and cpus, and registered ram, and the high quality casing, and the same software capabilities out of the box. Als o price other OEMs for the similar configurations while you're at it. Mac Pros are very competitive in price in their market segment.

    Right, and you can buy the dual cpu Mac Pro for about that price as well. That's the OP's fault for poorly configuring.

    Yay for Gaijin powers!!! lol.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
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  22. freaksavior

    freaksavior To infinity ... and beyond!

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    Im not going to read this whole thread because i dont want to go off one someone like i did last time. it is not good for my name here.

    If your friend wants a mac, let him get one. I love my mac, yes they are expensive and some what over priced.
    Yes there is software out there for pc in doing video, photo, and audio editing, but the mac pro is server grade hardware, the elegance of the case, the peace of mind of it working, and the OS X environment makes it worth it. the mac pro is a workstation machine designed for what he wants to do.

    also, please, do not say they are pieces of shit just because

    A) you dont have one
    b) you can't afford one
    c) you have never given them a chance
    d) Have used one to check your email for 10 minutes
    e) because you play games (VM WARE FUSION!!)
    f) because you brain is the size of a ant and you refuse to open your mind and explore other possibility beside windblows

    Thank you
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  23. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    Let me correct one thing, and that's point e. VMware fuzion is terrible for demanding games. Boot Camp is the way to go.
  24. freaksavior

    freaksavior To infinity ... and beyond!

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    You sir are correct, i was just trying to say you can play games on your ma, only because everyone say you cannot. This rumor spreads because those people do not bother pulling their heads out of their ass. :shadedshu
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  25. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    If you're goal is to play games, Mac OS X is the wrong place to look.
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