Nvidia is scared of ATI’s success

[ex_reven]

i dont drink, or do drugs, maby a mt dew for me

Me neither, but Id still take beer over vegemite or that Mt Dew crap.

Mmm coke.

 

[candle_86]

Dublin Dr Pepper or bust

 

[Tatty_Two]

And you know this how? I don't think you know factually that this happens, the same way as the people stating they are paying the developers off. So unless you can tell me you work/have worked for Nvidia/AMD/a game developer and know first hand, you dont really know, and can now get off your high horse.

His facts aside, when you look at the financial aspects of his argument they do seem plausible, the NVidia net profit figures seem correct as I have just done some googling, just taking that into account, it would seem unlikely that they would be able to have that great an influence in a gaming industry that makes NVidia look like fairly small fry TBH, although, as you have pointed out, on my part at least that is speculation.

 

[candle_86]

so what if Nvidia is paying them off, its bussiness

 

[DarkMatter]

ChillyMyst



LOL I'm not denying your sources, I'm denying the conclusions you take and the analisys you do out of them. Examples:

Quote:

HDR and Anti-aliasing

Question

Does NVIDIA support HDR and Anti Aliasing at the same time?

Answer

Two key hardware features present in GeForce 6 and GeForce 7 GPUs that accelerate and enable great HDR effects include FP16 texture filtering and FP16 frame-buffer blending. There are many ways to accomplish AA and HDR simultaneously in applications. Some games like Half Life 2 Lost Coast use an integer-based HDR technique, and in such games, the GeForce 6 and GeForce 7 chips can render HDR with MSAA simultaneously using that method. The GeForce 6 and GeForce 7 series GPUs do not support simultaneous multisampled AA (MSAA) and FP16 blending in hardware (the method used in 3dMark 2006).

Nvidia Faq

that pretty much prooves what i was saying, also prooves your talking our ur ass about fp64 (dont even think their is such a thing yet!!!)

Haha, this is funny. Indeed it's FP16, so you are right there, but it is also (mistakenly) known as FP64, because as you very well know (), color scheme used by graphics cards is RGBA (Red, Green, Blue, Alpha, just to be sure...) and HDR uses 16 bits in floating point for each channel, thus FP16 x 4 = 64 Floating Point bits. What it is funny about this, is how you go and say he's inventing it, without even thinking just a bit about it, and came to the same conclusion as I did.
Anyway, I think Half-Life 2 used a custom made hdr, with different bit depth for color and alpha, and a total of 40 or 48 bits used, but don't quote me saying this, since I may be wrong (most likely than not), it's just something that I remember not very clearly TBH from when the game was released long ago. Newer games from Valve use the standard HDR so far.

Quote:

The Way It's Meant To Be Played (TWIMTBP) is a program that helps game developers to optimize and incorporate exclusive features in their games and applications exclusively for NVIDIA's graphics cards. The deal also adds a splash screen to "the way it's meant to be played" games as well as branding within the game; this is widely considered as a promotion campaign for NVIDIA. This program was launched 2003 by NVIDIA, a graphics card producer. The program aims at providing the best experience possible for users of NVIDIA GeForce graphics cards, and more particularly provides extensive guidelines on game performance optimizations for the GeForce graphics cards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_It's_Meant_to_be_Played

and that program does cover PAYING developers and publishers to make games run better on nvidia cards or in some cases even causing artificial performance and feture loss if your videocard is not nvidia based.

Links says nothing, but you are fast to say your BS paragraph.

Quote:

GeForce 6 series and later
Image:Nvidia Logo.svg
The old Nvidia logo, in use until the release of the Geforce 7 series.

With the GeForce 6 series, Nvidia had clearly moved beyond the DX9 performance problems that plagued the previous generation. The GeForce 6 series not only performed competitively where Direct 3D shaders were concerned, but also supported DirectX Shader Model 3.0, while ATI's competing X800 series chips only supported the previous 2.0 specification. This proved an insignificant advantage, mainly because games of that period did not employ extensions for Shader Model 3.0. However, it demonstrated Nvidia's desire to design and follow through with the newest features and deliver them in a specific timeframe. What became more apparent during this time was that the products of the two firms, ATI and Nvidia, offered equivalent performance. The two firms traded blows in specific titles and specific criteria — resolution, image quality, anisotropic filtering/anti-aliasing — but differences were becoming more abstract, and the reigning concern became price-to-performance. The mid-range offerings of the two firms demonstrated the consumers' appetite for affordable, high-performance graphics cards, and it is now this price segment in which much of the firms' profitability is determined. The GeForce 6 series were released in a very interesting period: the game Doom 3 was just released where ATI's Radeon 9700 struggled at the OpenGL performance. In 2005, the Geforce 6800 performed excellently, while the GeForce 6600GT remained as important to Nvidia as the GeForce2 MX a few years previously. The Geforce 6600GT enabled users of the card to play Doom 3 at very high resolutions and graphical settings, which was thought to be highly unlikely considering its selling price. The Geforce 6 series also introduced SLI (which is similar to what 3dfx was using on the Voodoo 2). A combination of SLI and the performance gain as a result returned Nvidia to market leadership.

The GeForce 7 series represented a heavily beefed-up extension of the reliable 6-series. The industry's introduction of the PCI Express bus standard allowed Nvidia to release "SLI", a solution that employs two similar cards to share the workload in rendering. While these solutions do not equate to double the performance, and require more electricity (two cards vis-à-vis one), they can make a huge difference as higher resolutions and settings are enabled and, more importantly, offer more upgrade flexibility. ATI responded with the X1000 series, and their own dual-rendering solution called "Crossfire".

FUD, crossfire was avalable with the x800/x850 cards first not the x1000 cards.

part of the performance problems with the 9500/9600/9700/9800 cards was that nvidia PAYED Id to use shader code that would run poorly on current ATI drivers, but that ran better on nvidia drivers. this was disscovered to be true by some people who changed the shader code from one mode to another(to decimal or something)

Wrong, they say Ati responded with both x1000 and Crossfire, not that one came first than the other or not. Pff ffs.

That, my friend, is what optimization stands for, to change some specific code to make the game run better. But saying Nvidia payed so they did that way is BS. Where was Ati then? Where are your proofs?
The truth is they did it that way because they thought it was the best way to achieve the effect they wanted, and not thinking it would jurt Ati's performance. Once they knew about the problem they fixed it on the patch, isn't it? Anyway that alternative method you mention, in apparency changes a texture call with a constant variable. They change a texture with a constant color ffs!! The end result may be similar, but sure it's not doing the same thing.

An example contrary to yours: Call of Juarez. AFAIK this game is/was under TWIMTBP. They use an Antialiasing method that severely hurts Nvidia's performance. They get paid by Ati, of course. Or Ati/Amd don't do such things? Share your thoughts about this, I'm willing to read your response.

Another example, STALKER: This game ran poorly on every card, be it Ati or Nvidia. Some community made mods to shaders (including adding phong shading instead of blinn) made the game run almost a 100% better depending on circunstancies, while looking better. There were many of those mods or hacks. Oblivion is another example of the same nature.
Now since both Ati and Nvidia ran like crap in the first place and those mods were the proof that the game could run better, there's no other than to think that Sony paid them, because they wanted to destroy PC gaming. Indeed why not go and say that Sony has been doing this for years and blame Sony for the decadency in optimization that the PC has been suffering as a whole in the late years? Oooh, thank you Chilly, now I see the light!!


About [H], don't worry I never had that as a reliable source. Nor I do about wikipedia since I saw many changes that make both companies and people and that lasted weeks before they corrected them back. I have seen so many times something like: "And according to Mr. XXXX a reliable scientist in the matter... blah blah... Mr. XXXXX is a moron, and a motherfucker, niggars are lower than apes in the evolutive chain." <-- This lasting weeks is unnaceptable for me, so I can't have it as a reliable source, sorry.

And sorry for the language, but how can I express the thing if I don't use the languaje they used?

 

[DarkMatter]

His facts aside, when you look at the financial aspects of his argument they do seem plausible, the NVidia net profit figures seem correct as I have just done some googling, just taking that into account, it would seem unlikely that they would be able to have that great an influence in a gaming industry that makes NVidia look like fairly small fry TBH, although, as you have pointed out, on my part at least that is speculation.

Oh no! You too?
I can't believe how this conversation is running.
Yeah, technically what I'm doing is speculation too, since we don't have proofs that demostrate that what I say is true, but we don't have any that prove otherwise neither. But reality is different. We don't have proofs that aliens exist and that they are here right now, neither we have proofs that say otherwise.
We don't have proofs that leprechauns don't exist too.
No the world doesn't run like that (plese tell me it doesn't ffs), a lack of proofs denying that aliens are not between us, doesn't make plausible their existence between us. Same with leprechauns.

Up to this point that we have reached, I'm going to risk a thread close and even my ban for a last example:
My claim is the following.

ChillyMyst is mentally deficient, because when he was 5 her mother raped him.

Come on give me the proofs that demostrate that's false.
ChillyMyst any proof that you give us is not valid, as you could have falsificated them, nor you can call your friends, since you could have payed them to say what you want.



ChillyMyst, I don't want to make a personal offense with this, I just want to try to demostrate how stupid is to accuse without proofs. I deliverately added your mom to try to reflect how by accusing Nvidia, you are accusing game developers too. And how since the claims are false, they can hurt many people who love them.

Sincerely waiting for those proofs,

DarkMatter

 

[btarunr]

That's it.

DarkMatter, your flaming/insulting/trolling is unacceptable. Sure Chillymist can't provide proofs for everything just as there's no proof (required) for certain things but that doesn't give you the freedom to shoot your mouth around people as you like. You have something to prove, made your point, a link or two, a quote or two, seal your mouth and take it to the next thread. Chillymyst nor Tatty have to succumb to someone calling them "mentally deficient".

 

[DarkMatter]

That's it.

DarkMatter, your flaming/insulting/trolling is unacceptable. Sure Chillymist can't provide proofs for everything just as there's no proof (required) for certain things but that doesn't give you the freedom to shoot your mouth around people as you like. You have something to prove, made your point, a link or two, a quote or two, seal your mouth and take it to the next thread. Chillymyst nor Tatty have to succumb to someone calling them "mentally deficient".

Agreed. And sorry. But I think that it's clear that I don't want to flame him, that I don't mind what I said. It's only an example, an out of tone and offending one. But as I say in white letters (did you read them?) I'm not trying to make an offense. I thought that stating that in the message would make that clear. And yeah putting it in white doesn't help, but it's the only way that I could think of to make him take a momentary offense, as to feel the same he is inflicting.

On the other hand I never flamed Tatty. I expressed my sadness when I saw him saying I was speculating and later I tried to explain why even though I was speculating, mine was kinda better than the one CHillyMyst is doing. And I think that I used a kind language there.

Anyway, at this point, I don't care if I get a ban. I'm tired of this forum since this thread, because I'm sick (yeah whatever) looking how a person with not a single proof can accuse many respectable developers and companies, and still get more support than me, that I am only defending what, until proven otherwise, is innocent.

 

[ex_reven]

Heres an idea.
Everyone Shutup, and I will ask God (or your god) to forgive you.

People who believe in Satan are screwed tho

 

[Deleted member 3]

Great, now that everything is cleared up we can magically turn this thread into a for-grown-ups-only place.

 

[ex_reven]

Great, now that everything is cleared up we can magically turn this thread into a for-grown-ups-only place.

Is that magical happy land a sponsor of the new banned logo being advertised under darkmatters screen name? Oh wait...

 

[largon]

Geez!

Nobody bothered to read DarkMatter's post...

ChillyMyst, I don't want to make a personal offense with this, I just want to try to demostrate how stupid is to accuse without proofs.

His example was indeed quite crude but for pete's sake, it was just an example. Some people are *so* patheticly sensitive.

 

[Leprechauns]

Great, now that everything is cleared up we can magically turn this thread into a for-grown-ups-only place.

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Before I get banned again (I know that if I don't insult anyone I won't, but I don't have this forums in a very high place right now) because I will go off topic or because of it's nature or because who am I, I would want to give some advices regarding the Forum Rules and forum administration, not that I feel that I am in place of doing it, but because sincerely and humbly think they could be better:

1. Make clear that any violation to the rules means an instant ban, without administrators advertences and/or explanations or the right to be corrected. I say so because as a forum surfer that I am, I have seen many admins at work and an advertence or a post ban message is the norm, even if the reason of the ban is clear. Makes the forum fell more democratic.

2. A mail to the banned person comunicating the ban would be apreciated. Again regardless of the violation. Maybe the banned person doesn't deserve being treated as a person, but by doing so, you demostrate your own humanity.

3. Try not to insult the banned person after banning him for insulting. Yes, I find your sentence as offensive as mine if taken into its contex, and I would like you to say sorry for that. Thank you.

With that said, goodbye to everybody. I will countinue entering this site, though I won't post anymore (and who cares? I know that's what you are thinking).
It's a shame how some circunstancies took me to the point that I lost my mind as to insult ChillyMyst (being one the lack of support and his flaming to the whole gaming industry), but I still think that a community like this should prohibit or fight a progressive discreditation campaign in which ChillyMyst had engaged.
I also strongly believe that admins should give the right to let people correct himself, at least once.

Sincerely,

DarkMatter

 

[btarunr]

Geez!

Nobody bothered to read DarkMatter's post...
His example was indeed quite crude but for pete's sake, it was just an example. Some people are *so* patheticly sensitive.

Unfortunately a moderator doesn't have the time/patience to figure out invisible ink in forum posts. I read it but it still violates the forum guidelines of bad-language.

 

[Leprechauns]

Geez!

Nobody bothered to read DarkMatter's post...
His example was indeed quite crude but for pete's sake, it was just an example. Some people are *so* patheticly sensitive.

Thanks Largon. I had the feeling they didn't actually read it, but life is crude...
Goodbye bro.

 

[largon]

btarunr,
No time?
Then they MUST have time to correct the mistakes they make if they're in such a hurry. Not trying to tell how to moderate but IMO a warning + edit should have been enough here.

PS.
The quoted text is just written in white, not "invisible" (#f5f5ff).

 

[Deleted member 3]

Darkmatter got banned because he was fully aware that insulting people isn't acceptable. He even said he expected a ban. Hence he got a permanent one for behaving in a way of which he knew was unacceptable. I did him the favor.

I indeed do not have to time or patience to select text and read things that basically state "just kidding".

Additionally, I believe when a mod interferes in drama it means the drama should stop. It did not > close thread.