Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260

[inferKNOX]

wow, check nVidia's 1M chart, the stocks are dropping:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Then look at AMD's 3 month chart:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Looks like AMD has steadily been rising, and now nVidia has started to tumble.

 

[HalfAHertz]

Even if worst comes to worst , I'm pretty sure there will be alot of people to back up Nvidia. The sheer amount of technology they own should keep them afloat long enough for them to get back on their feet.

 

[Slappi]

I'll have some of what you're smoking. nVidia has been bleeding cash for 3 consecutive quarters, and that was before AMD launched the 58xx
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=NVDA

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see where this is headed over the next few quarters with no product in the most lucrative markets.

You're right they are still sitting on a large pile of cash, but that can evaporate quickly. If the GT300 and derivatives turn out to be unable to compete on price/performance as many expect, you're looking at another 6 quarters of losses at least. That huge pile won't look so huge anymore. nVidia managed to keep making money on rebranded G80s for 3 years now, but that has finally come to an end, and I don't see a plan C this time. Its GT300 or die.

As for AMD, I agree their financial situation looks a lot more dire than nVidia's on first sight, but they have a far better outlook for the next year at least, and unlike nVidia, they are backed by investors that drown in money and have a long term outlook. Its also the CPU business that is bleeding AMD, not their GPU business. (and things may change dramatically if the intel lawsuits gets settled).

Anyway, I agree with most ppl that Charlie is hardly an objective observer, and one should take his analysis with a truckload of salt, but he usually has the bare facts right. those who doubt it, nVidia fanboy n1, Fuad, has essentially the same story:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15831/1/

Just with a slightly different spin.

Explain to me then... why has nVida increased their cash position over the last 9 months?

Why has AMD burned through cash over the last 3 years?

Why is AMD expected to lose massive amounts of money over the next 6 quarters at least?

Why is NVDA expected to make money every quarter for the next 6 at least?

You should really short NVDA then and buy all the AMD stock you can afford..... you will be rich.

There are 30 analysts that say the opposite of what you say.... if you are right... you would be very wealthy.... somehow I think you will end up broke if you followed through.

Look here and tell me what you see,

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ae?s=NVDA

Now look here and tell me what you see,

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ae?s=AMD


Even if you didn't know how to read a balance sheet, anyone can tell a sea of red is a lot worse then a sea of black.

Notice the EPS trends part.... For all of the remainder of this year and all of next AMD is expected to lose $1.70 per share. They have about 668,000,000 shares... that will be a loss of over $1.13 BILLION over the next 18 months.... they cannot operate under $1 billion in cash with the debt they are carrying..... That is why they sold their foundries in the last year, they had to. They will be under the $1 billion mark within 2 years. If you want to invest in that kind of risk go ahead.

NVDA is not burning through cash, in fact they have increased their cash position the last few quarters. They will make money this quarter and they made money last quarter. They have 1.5 billion in the bank. They are on solid ground. What a lot of people fail to understand about nVidia, is that they could shut down their whole discrete GPU business and still make money while AMD's graphic division could make them $200 million a quarter and they would still lose money. Having a debt of $5 billion to pay off is a huge anchor tied around AMD's neck.

 

[Slappi]

wow, check nVidia's 1M chart, the stocks are dropping:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Then look at AMD's 3 month chart:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Looks like AMD has steadily been rising, and now nVidia has started to tumble.

Why wouldn't you compare both to a 3 month chart or both to a 1 month chart?

Is it because it wouldn't show what you are trying to manipulate?

I mean come on. At least assume the people on here have some intelligence.

 

[buggalugs]

omg nvidia is obsolete

 

[trt740]

This thread is dumb, when the geforce boys went to 55nm their gpus became profitable and all they need to do is drop price on the 285 gtx to match the 4850 and the 295 gtx about 50.00 and they will be fine. Heck if profits a issue they can just shrink the 200b to 45nm and crank the mhz up a bit DX11 won't be a issue at all for atleast 8 months.

 

[MKmods]

I disagree. Id say the time for $300 CPU's is (mostly) over. My last build for a friend was using a €45 Athlon-II @2.9 GHz and he was shocked how fast the system is (as was I TBH). Its overkill for most of his needs (which admittedly dont include gaming), i just picked about the cheapest cpu+mb combo I could find to replace his P4 board that had died;

Anyway, for gaming GPU's I still see a high end market. Even the fastest stuff out there struggles with games people do want to run on now affordable >24" monitors or dual/triple monitor setups. In those scenario's, $300 is probably much better spent on a faster GPU than CPU.

LOL, come back in a year and we will see. The high end gaming market is .0001% of the total (especially since a $100 GPU will play 99% of games) and that would never be enough incentive for Nvidia or ATI.

Wishful thinking is fine (except it wont help the bottom line)

 

[NoOneYoudKnow]

Explain to me then... why has nVida increased their cash position over the last 9 months?

Among other reasons, they are setting aside over $200M for the bump gate fiasco. increasing your cash position does not equal making a profit though. nVidia made a $105.3 million loss last fiscal quarter (Q2 2010) and over $200M the quarter before that. And again, those were the good times when they had competitive parts.

Why has AMD burned through cash over the last 3 years?

Why is AMD expected to lose massive amounts of money over the next 6 quarters at least?

For countless reasons, but their ATI division is not likely it.

Why is NVDA expected to make money every quarter for the next 6 at least?

Who is expecting that?
Perhaps you are misunderstanding nVidia's fiscal years, their latest quarterly report was issued in june, and relates to the second fiscal quarter 2010. It seems they are expected to make a small profit in the next quarter, and maybe they will, but the real effect of whats being talked about here will only be felt in the following quarters and possibly years when nVidia has no products to sell in the most lucrative segment of its bread and butter market.

You should really short NVDA then and buy all the AMD stock you can afford..... you will be rich.

Buy AMD? Where did I say I expect them to do well? If I could buy shares of ATI, I would, but not AMD. As for nVidia, my personal cash position is closer to AMDs than nVidia's, and since naked shorting is prohibited, I guess I won't get rich. But maybe we can make a bet ?

 

[Chad Boga]

It was revealed as misinformation spread by the article's author. It's the same guy doing what he always does. Hell, his website name even hints at how credible he is. 'Semi Accurate'. However he provides exactly what the red oriented fan likes to see even if he's proven wrong, most times within days. As such his crap is usually plastered all over the forums with many an AMD / ATI fan gobbling it right up. Don't get me wrong, Nvidia fans have their vices too..
.
This man isn't a journalist, he's an entertainer.

I suspect he is a paid propagandist.

Larrabee is a bigger disaster than GT300.

Not an apples to apples comparison.

Intel haven't got their total profitability on the line over a delay in Larrabee.

Charlie is the Fox news of the graphics card industry. You gotta wonder what Jen-Hsun did to Charlie? Every 3-4 months or so he has a negative article about Nvidia.

He is the AMD Information Minister, that is all he ever does.

 

[AsRock]

If true, this is very bad for everyone. There needs to be competition. I really don't believe the article right now.

Find it hard to believe even more so of the name of the source. Sounds like if the site supposed to sound better than a site called Fudzilla.

Source:
http://www.semi accurate.com/2009/10/...gh-end-market/

 

[PaulieG]

Fanboys for both camps start this crap anytime there is a new generation of cards released. It's always this can will be the death of...(fill in the blank). There is no proof of anything here. Just a bunch of insubstantiated rhetoric. The sky is not falling boys. Even if Nvidia's newest chip is not working out as planned, bothe Nvidia and ATI(AMD) have proven to be very resilient. Remember how ATI was suppose to disappear not so long ago? Charlie and his kind just love to stir this stuff up. It's what keeps his site going.

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

y so srs paul?

 

[3NTok]

NVDA is not going down, but...

Say what you want , NVDA is diversified company unlike AMD, having said that even if green team would temporarily fold from GPU business they will not go broke.

Nevertheless, you should cut Charlie some slack.

I doubt he is responsible for ads @ the website, nor he is AMD fanboi as he writes lots of positive stuff about Intel at the same time.

As far as I checked he usually is right except for times when he is foreseeing doom and gloom for NVDA which undoubtedly never came true and will not in the nearest future.

I'd see AMD dead far faster than NVDA.


As for the topic - You cannot really argue the facts that highend is currently own3d by ATI division. GTX285 is slower that 5850 and at the same time is more expensive.
Mind the the DX11 and other features that GT200 simply does not have.

Sure there is GTX295 , but not only it is not future proof, but also drivers for new Radeons are relatively new so there is still potential for Red Team here. It took months for 295's drivers to polish. mind new generation of cards.

Moreover, 57xx series is about to launch. Matching performance, price and being future proof.

4xxx is eol'ed why wouldn't nVidia do the same? It's better to cut losses now and spend money on Fermi marketing rather than subsidize customers.
I also find shortages hard to believe. Eol'ed or not there still should be plenty , 2nd hand market is there if you needed it for whatever reason.

And yes, I am an economist


Personally , I do not like GT300 idea.

What I need is relatively good priced a few Teraflops to run full HD DX11 AvP NOT All-in-One Physics Lab (although I wouldn't mind) and Gaming studio.

P.S I've been reading this site for a loong time and I love it. Cheers to all of you

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

Say what you want , NVDA is diversified company unlike AMD

f'real?

 

[Lionheart]

LMAO this is complete bullshit, nvidia wont die out, sounds like some ATI fanboy came up with this shit, i mean im a ATI fanboy but i wouldnt bag out nvidia like this, i think nvidia are still going good!

 

[KainXS]

Say what you want , NVDA is diversified company unlike AMD, having said that even if green team would temporarily fold from GPU business they will not go broke.

AMD competes with Intel and Nvidia on almost all their segments, who is more diversified

Nevertheless, you should cut Charlie some slack.

I doubt he is responsible for ads @ the website, nor he is AMD fanboi as he writes lots of positive stuff about Intel at the same time.

he is a AMD fanboy, we all know that already

I'd see AMD dead far faster than NVDA.

I bet you would

As for the topic - You cannot really argue the facts that highend is currently own3d by ATI division. GTX285 is slower that 5850 and at the same time is more expensive.
Mind the the DX11 and other features that GT200 simply does not have.

Sure there is GTX295 , but not only it is not future proof, but also drivers for new Radeons are relatively new so there is still potential for Red Team here. It took months for 295's drivers to polish. mind new generation of cards.

As long as the HD5870X2 is unreleased, then The fastest card accross the board is the GTX295 still, regardless of price its still the fastest.

Personally , I do not like GT300 idea.

What I need is relatively good priced a few Teraflops to run full HD DX11 AvP NOT All-in-One Physics Lab (although I wouldn't mind) and Gaming studio.

The GT300 is needed, it should undoubtedly be able to outperform every card today and be capable of running base computer code and accelerate not only graphics but basic applications across the board, Think of how much an GPU like this could accelerate 3DSMax or Maya, its not all about Physics, Nvidia should know by now PhysX won't last and this card is a step in the right direction for AMD and Nvidia, because AMD will have to respond to this card with something with similar features down the road, it comes down to an end where we will all be able to use our GPU's as Co-CPU's.

 

[inferKNOX]

Why wouldn't you compare both to a 3 month chart or both to a 1 month chart?

Is it because it wouldn't show what you are trying to manipulate?

I mean come on. At least assume the people on here have some intelligence.

Oh my gosh, why the paranoia?:shadedshu
I put 3 months for AMD because that is the approximate time in which there has been a build-up to the HD5000 series, and I put 1 month for nVidia because the news of nV having trouble with GT300 has been coming out mostly in the last month. At least see slightly beyond the fanboyism for a second before throwing accusations.

 

[3NTok]

just to clarify.

AMD competes with Intel and Nvidia on almost all their segments, who is more diversified



he is a AMD fanboy, we all know that already



I bet you would



As long as the HD5870X2 is unreleased, then The fastest card accross the board is the GTX295 still, regardless of price its still the fastest.



The GT300 is needed, it should undoubtedly be able to outperform every card today and be capable of running base computer code and accelerate not only graphics but basic applications across the board, Think of how much an GPU like this could accelerate 3DSMax or Maya, its not all about Physics, Nvidia should know by now PhysX won't last and this card is a step in the right direction for AMD and Nvidia, because AMD will have to respond to this card with something with similar features down the road, it comes down to an end where we will all be able to use our GPU's as Co-CPU's.

AMD competing at almost all the markets? Intel isn't just about CPU's you know. I'd go to yahoo finance and copy paste what intel or nV does, I just don't want to trash the forum.

Let's say for a minute or two that AMD does indeed compete. I'd say they are trying or aspiring to compete but that `small` company like AMD can dream on, only.

Just by comparing market caps of the big three - AMD is just too small to be effectively present on all the markets.

GTX295 is fastest (for now) in the older apps. It will not last too long though. mind DX.1/11 perf boost. It is also not time proof so choosing 58xx is a no brainer to me.

If he were that AMD fanboi , he wouldn't be all that positive about Intel, would he?.

I wouldn't want AMD nor nVidia to fall. I am fanboi of fierce competition and bringing high tech to mainstream


As for GT300 that was my personal opinion. I do not know any killer app that would convince me to spend some more extra buck just to give me that extra GPGPU power as for now everything can be run via present radeon or geforce series.

Not to mention that I do not believe in closed (cuda) standards and it looks like opencl is the way, thus it is not convincing to go either way since open cl is supported by both vendors.

I like the approach and I think GT300 will be great card. But too general purpose to justify the cost as my crystal ball tells me this card will not come cheap.
Concluding - interesting but lack of selling points to me, at least for the foreseeable future.

P.S I am not saying GT300 is not needed nor It's a bad idea. Thanks to nV , AMD was actually forced into GPGPU which is good, also GT300 might be great for HPCs and if possible speed up those specialized apps like 3dSmax, true.

Tell me what do I need it for? I am not a professional and I do bet majority is not as well.

 

[MKmods]

I have always been wondering how people with 0 posts always seem to find these threads?
(and keep them going)

So could you new guys let me know why you came to TPU and especially this thread (and Welcome)

 

[Assassin48]

I have always been wondering how people with 0 posts always seem to find these threads?
(and keep them going)

So could you new guys let me know why you came to TPU and especially this thread (and Welcome)

my theory is they are actual tpu members but dont know what to write about so they make "Fake" accounts to just start stuff


This thread is outta-control so I'm going to ask a mod to close it down

 

[Steevo]

I have always been wondering how people with 0 posts always seem to find these threads?
(and keep them going)

So could you new guys let me know why you came to TPU and especially this thread (and Welcome)

lurkers.........

 

[El Fiendo]

Heh, I was actually thinking this was rather peaceful so far.

 

[3NTok]

I am new to this forum. Any forums for that matter. I just never cared enough or had the time to participate.

Not new to the site though. I've read you for a few years now.

Edit: I don't know whether the post about newbies was targeted @me , if it were :


I found the link somewhere. probably pclab.pl as I read that most frequently.

Feel free to ask admins about my IP , I do not mind, not at all. I might have setup an account some moths ago when I wanted to ask something about GPU voltmods, but I am not really sure if I did and if I had posted anything nor what was the name of the account.

does that mean if I got no posts I shouldn't be posting anything? How do I get some posts so I can post?
This is one of the reasons I had really been avoiding forums...

 

[cdawall]

whats with all the new people who have posted just in this thread....can we get some IP checks cause ummm they seem to be pushing things in a similar manner...


ok now back on topic. If anyone would care to look a little further into the stocks they would notice AMD is on the rise and that AMD is also a cpu manuf so there is a little more that is done my AMD than is done by Nvidia its funny how that works. GPUs and CPUs influence AMD's stock while just GPUs influence nvidia's. If you would like you could also check GlobalFoundries on AMD's behalf i would assume that they are making a good chunk of change unluckily i have not seen what the stock symbol is for them.

 

[PaulieG]

I'm not going to close this thread for now, but I'm watching it closely.