1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Nvidia new driver brings DX11 improvements - beating Mantle

Discussion in 'NVIDIA' started by MxPhenom 216, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. MxPhenom 216

    MxPhenom 216 Corsair Fanboy

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    9,923 (6.79/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,203
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Not sure if anyone has seen this, but Nvidia talked about it during their conference about DX11 with Microsoft, Intel and AMD.

    Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidias-directx-11-driver-better-mantle-api-benchmark/#ixzz2ww6yLqVI

    Information on it is all over. I am sure people have seen it, but first time im actually reading through all the stuff at the conferences.
    Chetkigaming and Vario say thanks.
  2. Vario

    Vario

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,866 (0.89/day)
    Thanks Received:
    904
    Looking forward to a nice boost when this driver is out.

    edit: comments are hilarious... wtf is up with that "Black" poster
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  3. Xzibit

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,121 (1.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    252
    PCPerspective - NVIDIA Talks DX12, DX11 Efficiency Improvements
    ^article was published 1 day before WCCFTech article

    Graphs are too vague.

    Hopefully Nvidia wasn't using the DC trick

    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  4. Steevo

    Steevo

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    8,226 (2.55/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,149
    I love the VS Intel slide. Not sure where that applies other than in compute language written for the GPU.

    Also worthy of note was the CPU used, where Mantle removes the CPU limitation to make cheaper CPU's perform better than expensive ones they used a high end CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116492 to remove the limitation artificially, no mention of image quality either, and lastly the game engine hands out fewer draw calls to the DX path than to the Mantle path.

    In short, with careful tweaking and fewer objects to render and the CPU bottleneck removed I am sure it performs close to Mantle, since it is rendering less.


    A very cherry picked PR slide only with much BS.
    10 Million points folded for TPU
  5. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,609 (13.36/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,993
    Doesn't really matter. Mantle is currently irrelevant with the exception of one game that is currently broken and another game that isn't very good.
  6. MxPhenom 216

    MxPhenom 216 Corsair Fanboy

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    9,923 (6.79/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,203
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    broken game = bf4?
    not very good = Thief?
  7. Vario

    Vario

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,866 (0.89/day)
    Thanks Received:
    904
    I think that's what hes insinuating LOL. On BF4, BF4 looks very similar to BF3 but runs so much worse... BF4 Ultra settings on 1920x1080 lack "eyecandy", and it still has high latency
  8. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    42,151 (11.66/day)
    Thanks Received:
    9,474
    mantle doesnt need to work, if it kicks everyones asses into solving the API overheads issues.
    Melvis, Steevo, MxPhenom 216 and 2 others say thanks.
  9. Xzibit

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,121 (1.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    252
    Agree
    Unless Microsoft changes its current stance and makes it a mandatory part of DX12 rather then an optional we are going to keep getting the same crud through DirectX. :fear:

    Rather then applications being optimized the continuation of "application drivers" will continue :(
  10. MxPhenom 216

    MxPhenom 216 Corsair Fanboy

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    9,923 (6.79/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,203
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    One of the bigger focuses of directx12 is the cpu overhead improvements.
  11. Xzibit

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,121 (1.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    252
    It's not mandatory.

    They can leave it out and remain DX12 compliant.
  12. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    42,151 (11.66/day)
    Thanks Received:
    9,474
    people havent paid attention to directX after 9, have they XD


    directX10 GPU's can run directX11 titles (most of them, anyway) it just disables many of the features/effects


    same will happen here - we get hte performance boost (or some of it), but several advanced effects will either not be in the game, or not available to DX11 card owners
  13. Steevo

    Steevo

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    8,226 (2.55/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,149
    Except this go around the major current and last generation cards already can do this. Its been in the past merely the older generation consoles holding back what devs/studio can or want to pay to do. As well its the fault of us as gamers for putting up with it, consoles have had multicore support yet major game titles before GTA4 were gimped ports, GTA4 suffers from the use of DX as the only true streaming thing in the game is the music tracks, the rest have to be buffered and read with random numerous calls.

    Since then it has gotten somewhat better, but the adoption of multicore support is still lagging, and MS wasn't pushing the issue until AMD had a hand in building the next gen hardware and pushed the issue, and suprise....they finally found ways around the bottlenecks, and with it being implemented in Xbone..... there is no way anyone can reasonably think it was anything other than AMD/Mantle pushing it along. Since people are making the coding it can be broken, and with the steambox and feeling the heat from other competitive products in the android space.
    10 Million points folded for TPU
  14. Chetkigaming

    Chetkigaming

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    225 (0.80/day)
    Thanks Received:
    54
    Thanks Nvidia.
  15. arskatb

    arskatb

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    206 (1.08/day)
    Thanks Received:
    45
    Location:
    Finland
    Dat diagram is bs
  16. RCoon

    RCoon Forum Gypsy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,690 (7.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,011
    Location:
    Gypsyland, UK
    Not sure I'd trust NVidia to run a benchmark with AMD gear/drivers/API without buggering with some of it to make them look better in the end. I mean let's be honest, they're not gonna be playing fair here. But without mantle or any other mythical all-performance-solving API, the 780ti is more powerful than the 290X at a complete baseline. If they used those cards, they're simply stating what we already know about who's the performance king. I get the impression they're just puffing themselves up with pride and not really solving anything.

    810% efficiency in comparion to AMD on that second graph? Yeah, come on, NVidia are being the most sly and manipulative people here. I don't trust graphs that come from GPU vendors. Give me a TPU comparison, then I'll believe.
    Vario and GreiverBlade say thanks.
  17. the54thvoid

    the54thvoid

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,260 (1.89/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,484
    Location:
    Glasgow - home of formal profanity
    PR slides. As useful as a bouncy castle on a coral reef.

    The thing is though, so far the API has been about countering slower CPU's and aiding slower GPU's. Using high end hardware isn't the point - as is demonstrated by why the PS3 managed to still look decent after so many years with (in desktop terms) a shit gpu inside. Having a decent API would mean not needing uber powerful GPU's to do today's gfx work.

    Or perhaps if the API was in place years ago, we'd have the current crop of top level gfx cards rendering graphical scenes with incredible vividness?
    RCoon says thanks.
  18. RCoon

    RCoon Forum Gypsy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,690 (7.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,011
    Location:
    Gypsyland, UK
    You mean a 3930K and a 780ti/290X aren't the EXACT hardware mantle was designed for? But that would mean NVidia's graphs are worthless shock/horror!

    I'd like to see a core2duo and an A4 APU tested with a 270X and GTX 760 tested respectively. I feel the graphs would look much different.
    Fourstaff and the54thvoid say thanks.
  19. the54thvoid

    the54thvoid

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,260 (1.89/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,484
    Location:
    Glasgow - home of formal profanity
    Yar, I agree.

    It's almost like a beauty product commercial...

    "Mantle??? I don't have to, I have SB-E and a Titan."
    Vario and RCoon say thanks.
  20. LAN_deRf_HA

    LAN_deRf_HA

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    4,525 (1.93/day)
    Thanks Received:
    932
    From the reviews I've seen nvidia's current drivers already beat mantle...
  21. Fluffmeister

    Fluffmeister

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    637 (0.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    173
    Also the GDC have confirmed nV have no intention of using Mantle, but yeah Mantle seems to have done it's job.

    All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...

    Time to die.
  22. the54thvoid

    the54thvoid

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,260 (1.89/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,484
    Location:
    Glasgow - home of formal profanity
    Don't besmirch Bladerunner's good name by association with a gfx thread (shaking finger at you!) ;)
    Fluffmeister and RCoon say thanks.
  23. Xzibit

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,121 (1.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    252
    If by done jobs you mean, Microsoft pull a fast one. o_O

    The DX12 equivalent of Mantle is optional. A developer doesn't have to code his game or engine for it if he doesn't want to or if its not in his budget. He is more likely to sell more games and save money if he doesn't include it.

    You'll have to wait until Windows 9 in 2015 to find out if that shiny DX12 logo actually mean anything on a per game basis.
  24. RCoon

    RCoon Forum Gypsy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,690 (7.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,011
    Location:
    Gypsyland, UK
    Implying anybody is going to use DX12 when it comes out. Most developers tend to skip the first 6-12months of the DX API release before they start using it. There might be 1 or 2 games that are advertised as such, and likely paid to use it. Besides those, new revisions of DX take a long time to get adopted.
  25. Fluffmeister

    Fluffmeister

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    637 (0.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    173
    True, I'll just have to live without Mantle, all those brilliant games I'm missing out on.

    I'll cope, somehow.
    Vario says thanks.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page