1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

NVIDIA's shady trick to boost the GeForce 9600 GT

Discussion in 'Reviews' started by W1zzard, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. W1zzard

    W1zzard Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    15,316 (3.83/day)
    Thanks Received:
    12,483
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2008
  2. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,837 (6.05/day)
    Thanks Received:
    6,778
    I wouldn't call it a shady trick.

    Is it not entirely possible that nVidia's engineers simply used the PCI-e bus speed as the base because it would mean the card would be slightly cheaper to manufacture? I mean, the standard PCI-e bus speed is 100MHz, and only a very few people actually change that speed. So, perhaps they just figured they could use that to calculate the base 25MHz frequency instead of actually putting a crystal on the board, which would increase costs(slightly, but every little bit counts).

    Linkboost does increase the PCI-e frequency but ONLY when a compatible graphics card is insalled. AFAIK the 9600GT isn't a compatible graphics card, so it won't be affected. However, I might be wrong here.

    I don't think it was really an attempt to pull the wool over our eyes by nVidia, I just think it was a move to make the product cheaper and easier to produce that wasn't totally thought through or properly explained to the reviews/end-users.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  3. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    16,135 (5.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,458
    Location:
    Oklahoma T-Town
    Now if you could change the voltage in bios for the video card this would really rock. No software needed for a simple core clock.

    Now when you do this, the shaders are staying the same correct? They are not linked on this the same way the core is correct?
     
  4. Paulieg

    Paulieg The Mad Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    11,957 (4.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,033
    Location:
    Wherever I can find the iron.
    Well, I would agree with you if they didnt flat out deny or refuse to answer questions about it. I mean once it becomes an issue/concern, why not give an accurate explanation?
     
  5. POGE

    POGE New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,724 (0.50/day)
    Thanks Received:
    35
    Location:
    In banjo's Goats.
    Dont know why they want to hide it... but the fact they do is wrong. I mean is it ok to lie about clock speeds in drivers?
     
  6. W1zzard

    W1zzard Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    15,316 (3.83/day)
    Thanks Received:
    12,483
    a 27 mhz crystal is already on the board for the memory clock, so why not use that like we did for the last 25 or so years?
     
  7. regan1985 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,451 (0.45/day)
    Thanks Received:
    23
    Location:
    Coventry UNI England
    somthing tells me there is more to it! altho i think its a very good find, some1 has a lot of time to spare well done w1zzard why they didnt tell you i dont know! i wonder if other new nvidia cards will end up the same?!
     
  8. [I.R.A]_FBi

    [I.R.A]_FBi New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    7,664 (2.64/day)
    Thanks Received:
    540
    Location:
    c:\programs\kitteh.exe
    will the same apply to a 9800GT?
     
  9. ShinyG

    ShinyG New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Messages:
    186 (0.05/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Location:
    Romania
    So that's how they did it!
    I was like crazy on another thread why is the 9600GT so close to the 8800GT even though it has half the shaders. It just didn't add up.
    Well, now it does!

    Thanks W1zzard for clearing that out :)
     
  10. SK-1

    SK-1

    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,292 (0.91/day)
    Thanks Received:
    409
    Location:
    In a Galaxy Far Far...you know the rest.
    Good Tech,...bad execution. I agree with Wizz.
     
  11. rhythmeister New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    987 (0.27/day)
    Thanks Received:
    32
    Location:
    Belfast...N. Ireland mate!
    Nice find and good digging up of subject matter! :D
     
  12. W1zzard

    W1zzard Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    15,316 (3.83/day)
    Thanks Received:
    12,483
    depends on how they will implement the pcb design
     
  13. [I.R.A]_FBi

    [I.R.A]_FBi New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    7,664 (2.64/day)
    Thanks Received:
    540
    Location:
    c:\programs\kitteh.exe
    If they do, that may be the only reason to get a 9800GT, to the 1337, it makes no difference i guess.
     
  14. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    16,135 (5.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,458
    Location:
    Oklahoma T-Town
    With that note, do you think this will only affect reference design 9600GT cards?
     
  15. cowie

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    128 (0.04/day)
    Thanks Received:
    12
    Location:
    new jersey usa
    i would think they would boast about something thing like that or at least make users aware?
    you guys are pure genius.
     
  16. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,837 (6.05/day)
    Thanks Received:
    6,778
    I don't know, why use 25MHz as the base at all? All very good questions.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  17. cdawall where the hell are my stars

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    20,690 (6.47/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,987
    Location:
    some AF base
    what if someone just pressed the wrong key when coding the drivers :roll:
     
  18. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    6,889 (1.88/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,506
    Wow, just wow. This is an excellent find. This brings up 2 questions:
    #1 Will people with intel chipsets loss out on this added boost (without boostlink)?
    #2 What is the probablity of the card failing/malfunctioning because of this?
     
  19. W1zzard

    W1zzard Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    15,316 (3.83/day)
    Thanks Received:
    12,483
    1) if you crank up the pcie clock on intel you will see the same clock increase
    2) thats a good question. if a card can fail from overclocking (i have never seen evidence for that) and a manufacturer can detect it (no evidence for that either) and you didn't even know that the funky nvidia chipset overclocked your card, and made it go boom, you should get a new card from the mfgr or find a lawyer :)
     
    Murasame and WarEagleAU say thanks.
  20. AddSub

    AddSub

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,001 (0.31/day)
    Thanks Received:
    152
    That's what I call a professionally done investigative report. Great stuff W1zzard.
     
  21. niko084

    niko084

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,636 (2.49/day)
    Thanks Received:
    729
    Thats a bit odd why they would mislead like that...

    Shady a bit I would say...

    Definitely very odd.
     
  22. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    17,254 (5.10/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,004
    Location:
    Worcestershire, UK
    Because perhaps they dont wanna give the competition idea's.....this has got to be a good thing, the method that is, not being secretive. I am all for performance enhancements, just dont like it being shady.
     
  23. WarEagleAU

    WarEagleAU Bird of Prey

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    10,812 (3.36/day)
    Thanks Received:
    547
    Location:
    Gurley, AL
    I Agree Tatty. If they fudged the numbers or something, I may understand, but a flat out refusal or secretive notion, is just wrong.
     
  24. tkpenalty New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,958 (2.22/day)
    Thanks Received:
    345
    Location:
    Australia, Sydney
    Kudos w1zz.. and that proves that the 8800GT still > 9600GT however.

    Its a great boost for 9600GT users and I agree, why did they have to be so shady with this? Why didnt they just tell us in the first place?
     
  25. warhammer New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    204 (0.08/day)
    Thanks Received:
    25
    Nice read Wiz

    Can the crystal be changed on the G92 (8800GTS) and would it give a big boost in performance.
     

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page