Official AMD Radeon 6000 Series Discussion Thread

[CDdude55]

That wouldn't be satisfactory. I need a 6990 that consists of 2 Cayman XT cores that come factory overclocked

Asus would probably throw something like that together kind of like the Ares.

 

[motasim]

... The 6870 will cost around $300 to $350 and the 6950 will cost $400 to $450 and the 6970 will cost around $550 to $650 and last but not least the 6990 will cost over $1000 bucks.

Why because of no competition. I think ATI would be stupid to price it this way for sure! Because I think they will price themselves right out of the market. But with no competition right now.... they could do what they want to do.

I totally agree, this pricing scheme seems more logical given the current market position of AMD/ATI.

Just one question if I may; does nVidia plan to release anything for the holidays season to compete with ATI's offering? Are we going to see any GeForce GTX 475/490/495 or whatever it is called anytime soon?

 

[mdsx1950]

Asus would probably throw something like that together kind of like the Ares.

Woohoo. xD

Can't wait to see the power of that beast.

 

[CDdude55]

Woohoo. xD

Can't wait to see the power of that beast.

LOL, I can only imagine the cooling and power, i mean if it takes that beast of a cooler and power for two full 5870's on one PCB. I can only imagine something like 2x full ''6950'' GPU's on a single PCB.

 

[mastrdrver]

That's where aliens use the high gravity to compress the GPU and make it smaller, and I assure you it's not rumor. Why do you think UFO sittings have reduced in USA? It's because they drop off the GPUs by AMD in Canada.
The wanted to drill to the core of Jupiter to get the extra-pure raw materials, but it was too deep so they rebranded uncore/crustal raw materials as core.



No, it's just the transport costs from Jupiter back to earth that makes it expensive.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38310&stc=1&d=1286789358​

what is that to do with jupiter? rumor again? they already said it's going to be rebrand and some uncore part(tessellation) of jupiter is going to be enhance and rise the clock and ram speed higher. according to amd source barts is too costly to be 6770 and cayman is too complex and too large to produce and dual gpu may not be available (or use barts x2 as 6990) which it may be the reason why amd has to undergo such rebrand scheme.

Everyone was saying at first that Barts was 6770 and 6750 like that AMD slide. Then we get some pdfs saying Barts is 6870 and 6850. We have seen two different cards and know that Barts is two 6 pin for power and Cayman is 6 and 8 pin.

So how do you make sense of all this? Easy! No where has anyone mentioned or asked when the laptop parts are coming and if any of these leaked slides and pdfs are talking about desktop or laptop parts.

This is where Juniper comes in.

Juniper on laptop is 5870 but desktop is 5770. Sure it has a different name for the 5 series on the laptop but it is still the same die. Not to mention if you look at the device id driver leak from a few weeks back you notice a few things.

For past three series, ATI has used this setup for device ids: first 2 digits are to group same family chips (Evergreen is different than R700), 3rd differentiates between groups in the same family (aka 58xx from 57xx), and the fourth differentiates between xx70, xx50, etc (There are a few exceptions but this fairly reliable especially the newer the series).

Going back to the driver leak we see that the three Vancover locations that I believe to be laptop parts also groups one of the Bart device ids with them.

I got to go back to work but I'll break it down this evening to show what I mean. Although I could be completely off in left field too.

 

[cadaveca]

mastrdrver, I was actually thinking the same thing, kinda. I get where you are headed...

 

[HalfAHertz]

that would leave a giant perf gap between the 6750 and 6770 while having a meager one between the 6770 and 6850.

That depends. We still don't know how barts will perform and how cut down the pro part will be ompared to the XT part

@mastrdrver: That's a very good point!

 

[chistiansen]

Advised me to buy a 5870 or wait for new plates
6xxx series ?
soory for my bad english

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

6850 / 6870 should be close performance wise to the 5850/5870 and use less power from the looks aka same performance more efficient and with the new arch change they will probably focus on driver updates etc on the new series and not the old 5k cards

 

[cadaveca]

Advised me to buy a 5870 or wait for new plates
6xxx series ?
soory for my bad english

Personally, I'd wait until the end of the month. Next week was the rumoured release, but at this point, it's all rumours.

 

[yogurt_21]

Personally, I'd wait until the end of the month. Next week was the rumoured release, but at this point, it's all rumours.

second this, one week of waiting could save you alot of money, or could mean nothing. It's at least worht it to wait that week.

 

[chistiansen]

I could also purchase a 5870 tomorrow but I decided to see, even if I wait that I had nothing to lose or win the contrary I get you a price depending 6xxx or go on a 5870 took a low price.

 

[cheezburger]

Everyone was saying at first that Barts was 6770 and 6750 like that AMD slide. Then we get some pdfs saying Barts is 6870 and 6850. We have seen two different cards and know that Barts is two 6 pin for power and Cayman is 6 and 8 pin.

So how do you make sense of all this? Easy! No where has anyone mentioned or asked when the laptop parts are coming and if any of these leaked slides and pdfs are talking about desktop or laptop parts.

This is where Juniper comes in.

Juniper on laptop is 5870 but desktop is 5770. Sure it has a different name for the 5 series on the laptop but it is still the same die. Not to mention if you look at the device id driver leak from a few weeks back you notice a few things.

For past three series, ATI has used this setup for device ids: first 2 digits are to group same family chips (Evergreen is different than R700), 3rd differentiates between groups in the same family (aka 58xx from 57xx), and the fourth differentiates between xx70, xx50, etc (There are a few exceptions but this fairly reliable especially the newer the series).

Going back to the driver leak we see that the three Vancover locations that I believe to be laptop parts also groups one of the Bart device ids with them.

I got to go back to work but I'll break it down this evening to show what I mean. Although I could be completely off in left field too.

the pcb we saw from btarunr was actually firestream v9370 and it was based on cypress core rather than cayman or any NI based gpu. . it's now clarified that has no associate with cayman so we don't know what power setup will be for upcoming 6970/6950 because of 48rops/480ALU/384bit bus ate more than 1.5x of power than barts so it would be logical to have 8+8pin than 6+8pin. and since it's now to be 48 rops/384bit bus which the ram chip will have to be 12 instead of 8/16 config.

as for juniper, the rebrand scheme was because cayman had undergo 384bit bus and the pcb layout is too complex and costly to be x8xx which the position of cayman has to be replace by barts but end up have no replacement for x7xx...turk/whistler are delayed until q1 2011 and review to be weaker than juniper because of slower GDDR5 and lack of tessellation. however it may be possible that refine juniper and turk/whistler will be co-exist until 28nm hd 7xxx come up. so the reason of rebrand is now clarified that amd end up f*** them selves really hard because of cayman's 384bit design and no replacement in mid range department. but there's nothing wrong with the naming because amd's name are basically determine by cost, not just performance. the higher number the higher price:

x9xx: big ass 400mm^2+ chip with wider bus + complex PCB/dual gpu setup(ex: 1950xtx, 2900xt, 3870x2,4870x2,5970) the price are never goes down from 400 bulks segment but the performance is extreme high. price are above $429~799

x8xx: high end/upper mid-range gpu with die space between 200~350mm^2. mostly 256bit bus and lower cost with relative high performance with price. amd's most competitive line are usually in this level. pricing are between $199~399

x7xx: mid range with limited power requirement but performance is competitive. the GPU die never exceed 200mm^2 and 110w TDP. it can swipe the price fast and still profitable. mostly single 6pin. pricing between $105~225

x6xx: mid range as well, but mostly never require pcie connector and having the highest performance per dollar. most of them are single slot and low operate temperature. pricing are between $79~119

x5xx~x3xx: mostly are low end and some share the same core with IGP. low price but performance are relatively poor compare to other family.

i hope this will explain everything

 

[erocker]

the pcb we saw from btarunr was actually firestream v9370 and it was based on cypress core rather than cayman or any NI based gpu. . it's now clarified that has no associate with cayman so we don't know what power setup will be for upcoming 6970/6950 because of 48rops/480ALU/384bit bus ate more than 1.5x of power than barts so it would be logical to have 8+8pin than 6+8pin. and since it's now to be 48 rops/384bit bus which the ram chip will have to be 12 instead of 8/16 config.

as for juniper, the rebrand scheme was because cayman had undergo 384bit bus and the pcb layout is too complex and costly to be x8xx which the position of cayman has to be replace by barts but end up have no replacement for x7xx...turk/whistler are delayed until q1 2011 and review to be weaker than juniper because of slower GDDR5 and lack of tessellation. however it may be possible that refine juniper and turk/whistler will be co-exist until 28nm hd 7xxx come up. so the reason of rebrand is now clarified that amd end up f*** them selves really hard because of cayman's 384bit design and no replacement in mid range department. but there's nothing wrong with the naming because amd's name are basically determine by cost, not just performance. the higher number the higher price:

x9xx: big ass 400mm^2+ chip with wider bus + complex PCB/dual gpu setup(ex: 1950xtx, 2900xt, 3870x2,4870x2,5970) the price are never goes down from 400 bulks segment but the performance is extreme high. price are above $429~799

x8xx: high end/upper mid-range gpu with die space between 200~350mm^2. mostly 256bit bus and lower cost with relative high performance with price. amd's most competitive line are usually in this level. pricing are between $199~399

x7xx: mid range with limited power requirement but performance is competitive. the GPU die never exceed 200mm^2 and 110w TDP. it can swipe the price fast and still profitable. mostly single 6pin. pricing between $105~225

x6xx: mid range as well, but mostly never require pcie connector and having the highest performance per dollar. most of them are single slot and low operate temperature. pricing are between $79~119

x5xx~x3xx: mostly are low end and some share the same core with IGP. low price but performance are relatively poor compare to other family.

i hope this will explain everything

No sources/facts explain nothing. Nice thoughtout speculation though.

 

[cheezburger]

No sources/facts explain nothing. Nice thoughtout speculation though.

the source are already integrated in this thread and I just made the conclusion. not speculation anymore.

or else i may still insist 512bit bus.....people had to learn the fact. not just dream off

That's where aliens use the high gravity to compress the GPU and make it smaller, and I assure you it's not rumor. Why do you think UFO sittings have reduced in USA? It's because they drop off the GPUs by AMD in Canada.
The wanted to drill to the core of Jupiter to get the extra-pure raw materials, but it was too deep so they rebranded uncore/crustal raw materials as core.



No, it's just the transport costs from Jupiter back to earth that makes it expensive.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38310&stc=1&d=1286789358​

damn....i thought 5770 was jupiter...and it sounded more mighty than juniper....

 

[SNICK]

Radeon HD 6870 faster than GTX 460

Some 20+ percent
The latest that we have gathered about AMD's controversial new graphics cores, codenamed Barts (not Simpson ed.) claim that Radeon HD 6870 should easily be faster than a Geforce GTX 460 1GB.

This also implies that this card should be priced slightly higher than a Geforce GTX 460 1GB, so we expect that Radeon HD 6870 should cost around €250 / $250 USD if not a few bucks cheaper.

We are hearing that the performance gain on average with the new Barts XT part is around 20 to 25 percent but on the same time, we hear that Radeon HD 6870 won't be that much faster than the current 5870.

The good part is that despite the controversies Cayman XT and PRO cards should ship in about a month's time, being significantly faster than Cypress based Radeon HD 5870 series available today.

The official launch should take place next week.

source:fudzilla

 

[erocker]

Some 20+ percent
The latest that we have gathered about AMD's controversial new graphics cores, codenamed Barts (not Simpson ed.) claim that Radeon HD 6870 should easily be faster than a Geforce GTX 460 1GB.

This also implies that this card should be priced slightly higher than a Geforce GTX 460 1GB, so we expect that Radeon HD 6870 should cost around €250 / $250 USD if not a few bucks cheaper.

We are hearing that the performance gain on average with the new Barts XT part is around 20 to 25 percent but on the same time, we hear that Radeon HD 6870 won't be that much faster than the current 5870.

The good part is that despite the controversies Cayman XT and PRO cards should ship in about a month's time, being significantly faster than Cypress based Radeon HD 5870 series available today.

The official launch should take place next week.

source:fudzilla

I found that article funny. It basically repeats what has been said by Fudzilla and other sources only Fudzilla threw GTX 460 in the title.

 

[cheezburger]

I found that article funny. It basically repeats what has been said by Fudzilla and other sources only Fudzilla threw GTX 460 in the title.

well they were the first rumor cayman to be 48 raster pipe and 384bit bus rather than double of barts(64rops/512bit bus) and the rebrand scheme...however I am pretty impress their intelligent department as these all turn out to be real...but cayman is pretty useless as it won't be faster than 5970 while named as 6970...and the dual gpu 6990 turn out to be only little faster than 5970. i'd rather see amd bring a quad barts version of 6990 and dual core barts 6970 than a cripple cayman with 48 rops while slower than 5970 in some older game.....

i hate fud.....as they are always been correct in the end....just like when they review fermi during the speculation.....

 

[f22a4bandit]

Ahhh the power of misinformation, it sure drives conversation, doesn't it? Until reviews come out, this is all speculation. By the way, quoting Wikipedia as a reputable source isn't exactly the best idea because the people writing that information are about as informed as we are on this forum until release day. All website sources should be read with a grain of salt as well as they're also running off of rumor.

I think AMD pulled off an extremely difficult strategy with superb execution. They've stirred interest by releasing the bare amount of information on this new architecture without really giving anything away. They've had forums speculating the GPU specifications for MONTHS. The only thing they need to pull off is delivering the kind of product we people have been dreaming up for months, and blowing us away.

To say disappointment would tarnish AMD's reputation would be an understatement at this point. We're all expecting something that will become a game changer and force a more competitive market. We're expecting a GPU that will lower power consumption while maintaining, if not surpassing, current performance. We're also expecting a fair price, although we know that making money is the bottom line. If any of these expectations aren't met, I'll be disappointed. Until launch, however, I'll keep speculation to you more technical savvy people as I watch to see if this public relations/marketing strategy is a success on that date.

 

[_33]

Picture of Radeon 6850 right here:

http://www.presence-pc.com/image/AMD-Radeon-6850-Barts,0101-264573-0-2-3-1-jpg-.html

 

[Goodman]

Picture of Radeon 6850 right here:

http://www.presence-pc.com/image/AMD-Radeon-6850-Barts,0101-264573-0-2-3-1-jpg-.html

Ou est l'article?
Juste une photo...

Anyhow all i hope is that it will perform as good as the 5850 & price as same as the 5770 then i'll buy one for sure
But my guess is that it will cost between $250-300 cdn

 

[_33]

Ou est l'article?
Juste une photo...

http://translate.google.com/transla...-Radeon-Barts-40953/&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

 

[Goodman]

http://translate.google.com/transla...-Radeon-Barts-40953/&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Rien n'indique toutefois avec certitude qu'il s'agisse bien d'une Radeon HD 6850... There is no indication, however, with certainty whether indeed a Radeon HD 6850 ...

I'll say that picture is not of the 6850 but rather an "old" 5750 or 5770 picture , it looks to much like my 5750 except mine got the vapor-x cooling

 

[mastrdrver]

Thoughts on this thread from January?

Most interesting comments are from 265586888. This, this, this, and this.

What if AMD did a reverse 4770 in taking the new architecture to a known process and then waiting until 28nm comes along. You get your stop gap part, newer design to be in time for shopping season, and work out any kinks in the design. 28nm shows up and you can grow the chip a little. Only problem there is I think 28nm is a full shrink from 40nm (according to TSMC) so idk how much you will save as I think it is the half shrinks that are the easy no brainiers.

Anyone know what the most recent statement was on either GF or TSMC 28nm process. I've seen some rumors from July that state AMD is coming out with 28nm parts in 1H 2011.

So I got a few questions:

1) How does Barts being a little bigger than Cypress (rumored) come in at the $220 price bracket (unless your getting amazing yields)?
2) There were a couple Vantage with GPUz shots of Cayman with ~X13000 and ~P24000 yet Barts says to get similar to 5870 in P and ~X7000 and is called 6870 without GPUz shots?

There are others but the pictures that are out there and what is stated about products in said pictures are not always lining up. I for one don't really believe that ATI-Forum picture. Looks like something someone made with MS paint, posted it, and then got spread as leak from AMD by everyone somehow making it fact. Not to mention it contradicts other leaks out there.

mastrdrver, I was actually thinking the same thing, kinda. I get where you are headed...

That depends. We still don't know how barts will perform and how cut down the pro part will be ompared to the XT part

@mastrdrver: That's a very good point!

Woohoo! I wrote a ramble from thoughts the night before and I got two, freaking two people who said they followed. That's a first!...........both of you should be seriously concerned.

 

[Steevo]

I just ran a Vantage at 17.3K core of 1063 and I am planning on going higher.



If they produce a chip that stays 25% busier at the same clocks for roughly the same price as a 5870 they will murder the 480 if not in price, but in performance per dollar and possibly overclocking potential.