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Official AMD Radeon 6000 Series Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by TechPowerUp Forums, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. the54thvoid

    the54thvoid

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    I demand Cheezburger and Benetanegia get a room and start a cuddle down.

    Otherwise, lets wait for some freaking benchmarks. But i support Ben's comments regarding suggested performance. If the 6970 beats 5970 (Caymen beats Hemlock) I'll eat my piss stained pants.

    Antilles will beat Hemlock.
     
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  2. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    According to the charts they are the mid range cards. They are higher in performance then the juniper.
    --------------------


    Hmm, the charts don't provide anything regarding a new AA method (MLAA).
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  3. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    well it's difficult to say how bad the scaling penalty is going to be on semi-multicore gpu but i'm sure amd will give the answer. and about l2 cache issue with RPE that reminds me of bulldozer's die pic which it may adopt the same cache design on NI as well. the l2 cache will be on one side with ALU while the raster will facing the bus controller. it may be just guessing because i can't bring real die map to you at the moment. which that RPE more complicate than we think....

    juniper is going to be at the midrange line for a while due to the rebrand scheme and as long as barts's price aint that pretty as we assume it won't be a mid range card. just like 8800gt in its position and barts will do the same.

    MLAA, may be it will leak more info soon
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  4. BraveSoul

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    im wondering, will the more complex shaders of southern islands increase the folding performance of Radeon cards?
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  5. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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    No, the limit with ATi cards folding is software, currently. The ATi FAH core hasn't been updated really, in several years...like 2008. And yes, I'm still getting the same FAH performance with new cards as I was back then.

    If you want a FAH vga, buy nVidia.
     
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  6. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    We will simply disagree as I don't see Juniper as a midrange card (neither does the chart suggest it). And the chart appears to indicate that it will be phased out. Also we still have Turks and Caicos. :)
     
  7. inferKNOX

    inferKNOX

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    @cheez & Ben:
    [​IMG]

    Do you guys think that AMD are going to include (1920x1200 supporting) mini-DP -> DVI adapters with the cards? Is so, how many, 1 or 2?
     
  8. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    No Bulldozer has a shared L2 cache and that's the point. L2 or L3 (if it has one), in any case the higher order one, must be shared, because you need a single pool for the entire GPU unless you want data to be replicated several times both inside the GPU and in vram. If you are creating rendering clusters, it's just like that, it cannot be in a different way, because otherwise RPE #2 wouldn't be able to finish the work that was initiated in RPE#1, no matter where the work was left by the other cluster, which is the whole point of creating these clusters in the first place.

    So now that is clear that L2 must be a single shared one, it's clear it must be outside RPEs and sit between them and vram (MCs), so clearly if "the l2 cache will be on one side with ALU while the raster will facing the bus controller" that's how it is in Fermi and how it was in Cypress and in order to be like that ROPs are necessarily outside the RPEs. ding! ding!
     
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  9. JATownes

    JATownes

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    I think we have a winner. :D

    Edit: Just in case some didn't see this, first pics of PCB and die shots. Courtesy of BTA, by way of IT168. http://www.techpowerup.com/132802/Radeon-HD-6870-PCB-and-GPU-Pictured.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  10. wahdangun

    wahdangun New Member

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    i think that was up to AIB partner but i think they will include it because it doesn't contain any active part i think it will be cheap enough just like DVI to HDMI converter

    i can't wait for the benches and how the 4D shader stand up versus 5 D
     
  11. nt300

    nt300

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    Can we get single slot cooking for HD 6870 and HD 6970. It would be nice so we have more room to use the extra PCIE slots.
     
  12. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    hhmmmmmmmmm! thinking about single slot cooking is making me feel hungry...


    and making me think about a naked GTX480 frying eggs for some reason. :wtf:
     
  13. BraveSoul

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    is there a video? im sure it can, if a small pan(or something like that) is effectively attached to the gpu, im sure the heat would suffice for a healthy eggwhite
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  14. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    There's some pictures around the web, but the idea has always been stupid anyway and only intended for fun. And egg can be cooked at any temp above 70 Celsius iirc, so basically ANY GPU or CPU can cook an egg.
     
  15. HalfAHertz

    HalfAHertz

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    I made a few a while back when the gtx480 was released. Are you thinking about those? :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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  17. BeepBeep2

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    *whistles*


    Old 6770 slide:
    [​IMG]

    New Barts XT slide:
    [​IMG]

    Note-

    Barts XT: Core Clock has gone down 50 Mhz to 850 Mhz from 900, SP's were reduced from 1280 to 960, Texture Units reduced from 64 to 48, as well as board power going marginally up. Board power moves from 146w vs (greater than) >150w, ... Remember, the 5850's max board power is 151w.

    Barts PRO: Core Clock is now listed at 700-725 Mhz (was 725), SP's were reduced from 1120 to 800, Texture Units dropped from 56 to 40, and board power went from 114w to (less than) <150w.

    You guys have to realize that Barts XT has changed a bit recently.
    The HD6770 listed in leaked slides has the card at 900 Mhz core, with 1280 Stream Processors, 64 texture units.

    1 multiply+add "mad" (2 FP) ops per cycle * number of stream processors (1280) * core clock (900 Mhz) equals the 2.304 TFlops as that slide states.

    This was the 6770, and it's specs are still worse than the "current" 5870. It's closer to the 5850 in performance. (Which is acceptable at a $250 price point.) Pay very close attention to the max board power for Barts XT on this slide. 146w.

    The black slide I have above shows Barts XT as 850 Mhz core, with 960 Stream Processors, 48 texture units @ greater than 150w. Again, the 5850's max board power is 151w.
    Those specs leave us with 1 multiply+add (2 FP) ops per cycle * number of stream processors (960) (which is cut down by 320 from 1280) * core clock (850 Mhz)
    = 1.632 TFLops of Single Precision.

    At a $260 price point, that leaves us with something between a 5770 and 5850. (Remember, 5850's can be had for $260 at this time.)

    Performance wise (Single Precision only, and ONLY Single Precision) it is equal to a 5770 at 1020 Mhz.
    HD5770 (Can be had for $135, or $125 w/ rebate on Newegg.com on Oct. 15 2010):
    10 SIMD's
    2 FP ops * 800 SP's * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 1.36 TFLops/s SP
    40 Texture Units * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 34 GTexel/s
    16 ROP's * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 13.6 GPixel/s
    64 Z/Stencils * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 54.4 GSamples/s
    1200 Mhz GDDR5 * 128 bit bus / 2 times = 76.8 GB/s
    Max board power: 108w

    Overclocked HD5770 @ 1020/1445 ($140 to $160 for voltage control):
    10 SIMD's
    2 FP ops * 800 SP's * 1020 Mhz Core Clock = 1.632 TFLops/s SP
    40 Texture Units * 1020 Mhz Core Clock = 40.8 GTexel/s
    16 ROP's * 1020 Mhz Core Clock = 16.32 GPixel/s
    64 Z/Stencils * 1020 Mhz Core Clock = 65.28 GSamples/s
    1200 Mhz GDDR5 * 128 bit bus / 2 times = 76.8 GB/s
    Or for fun: 1445 Mhz GDDR5 * 128 bit bus / 2 times = 92.5 GB/s

    HD6850 (Barts PRO) from black slide priced at $200 (?):
    10 SIMD's
    2 FP Ops * 800 SP's * 700-725 Mhz Core Clock = 1.12 TFLops SP to 1.16 TFLops SP
    40 Texture Units * 700-725 Mhz Core Clock = 28 GTexel/s to 29 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 700-725 Mhz Core Clock = 22.4 GPixel/s to 23.2 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils * 700-725 Mhz 89.6 GSamples/s to 92.8 GSamples/s
    1000 Mhz GDDR5 * 256 bit bus / 2 times = 128 GB/s
    Max board power: (less than) <150w

    New HD6850 (Barts PRO) priced around $200 to $225:
    10 SIMD's
    2 FP Ops * 800 SP's * 775 Mhz Core Clock = 1.24 TFLops SP
    40 Texture Units * 775 Mhz Core Clock = 31 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 775 Mhz Core Clock = 24.8 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils * 775 Mhz = 99.2 GSamples/s
    1000 Mhz GDDR5 (?) * 256 bit bus / 2 times = 128 GB/s
    1200 Mhz GDDR5 (?) * 256 bit bus / 2 times = 153.6 GB/s (I doubt we will see this on a midrange card)

    HD5850 (currently selling for $260 @ Newegg.com on Oct. 15 2010):
    18 SIMD's
    2 FP Ops * 1440 SP's * 725 Mhz Core Clock = 2.088 TFLops SP
    72 Texture Units * 725 Mhz Core Clock = 52.2 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 725 Mhz Core Clock = 23.2 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils * 725 Mhz Core Clock = 92.8 GSamples/s
    1000 Mhz GDDR5 * 256 bit bus / 2 times = 128 GB/s.
    Maximum Board Power = 151w

    HD5850 Overclocked to 1000/1300
    18 SIMD's
    2 FP ops * 1440 SP's * 1000 Core Clock = 2.88 TFLops SP (note, this is nearly twice as fast as the stock 6870 below)
    72 Texture Units * 1000 Core Clock = 72 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 1000 Core Clock = 32 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils * 1000 Core Clock = 128 GSamples/s
    1300 Mhz GDDR5 * 256 bit bus / 2 = 166.4 GB/s

    HD6870 (Barts XT) from the black slide ($260?):
    12 SIMD's
    2 FP ops * 960 SP's * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 1.632 TFLops SP
    48 Texture Units * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 40.8 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 27.2 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils (as noted on black chart) * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 108.8 GSamples/s
    1050 Mhz GDDR5 * 256 bit bus / 2 = 134.4 GB/s
    Max board power: (greater than) >150w

    Theoretical HD6870 with completely insane overclock @ 1100/1450:
    12 SIMD's
    2 FP ops * 960 SP's * 1100 Mhz Core Clock = 2.112 TFLops SP
    48 Texture Units * 1100 Mhz Core Clock = 42.8 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 1100 Mhz Core Clock = 35.2 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils * 1100 Mhz Core Clock = 140.8 GSamples/s
    1450 Mhz GDDR5 * 256 bit bus / 2 = 185.6 GB/s

    HD5870 (currently selling for $350, as low as $310 with rebate on Newegg.com as of Oct. 15 2010):
    20 SIMD's
    2 FP ops * 1600 SP's * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 2.72 TFLops SP
    80 Texture Units * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 68.0 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 27.2 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils * 850 Mhz Core Clock = 108.8 GSamples/s
    1200 Mhz GDDR5 * 256 bit bus / 2 = 153.6 GB/s
    Max board power: 188w

    Overclocked 5870 @ 1000/1325 :
    20 SIMD's
    2 FP ops * 1600 SP's * 1000 Mhz Core Clock = 3.20 TFLops SP
    80 Texture Units * 1000 Mhz Core Clock = 80.0 GTexel/s
    32 ROP's * 1000 Mhz Core Clock = 32.0 GPixel/s
    128 Z/Stencils * 1000 Mhz Core Clock = 128.0 GSamples/s
    1325 Mhz GDDR5 * 256 bit bus / 2 = 169.7 GB/s

    Also keep in mind that new Barts 6800 Series cards only feature one crossfire interconnect.
     
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  18. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    barts xt, hd 6870. 1280sp:64:32. 256bit bus and 950mhz core clock

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    barts pro: hd 6850 1120:56:32 256bit bus 850mhz core clock

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    it look exactly like the card in the pic that btarunr post, while he claim it was "cayman"
     
  19. beautyless

    beautyless

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    Thanks BeepBeep2 for predicted specification of new series with available information.
    I compared hd 5850, 6870, 5870 at standard speed. hd 6870 has a weak point in the Texture Unit only.
    Number of stream processor and TFlops even less but have a new design, so it is not a problem in performance.
     
  20. Goodman

    Goodman

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    Looks like we all have to wait a bit longer until the 22 of October & not the 18 or 19 October as expected?

    http://www.techeye.net/chips/amd-to-launch-gtx-460-killing-radeon-hd-6850-6870-next-week

     
  21. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    If the 6870 can get close to the 5870 in games and cost between $229-$249 that would be better than the "8800gt effect" that nv was looking for out of the 460.
     
  22. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    JATownes says thanks.
  23. wahdangun

    wahdangun New Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Zen_

    Zen_

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    Any semi-reliable info on pricing yet? Getting kinda worried that these are both going to be over $200...
     
  25. Semi-Lobster

    Semi-Lobster New Member

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