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Ok, I'm Chilled. I'm Chilled. Relax....56K Warning!

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by Naja002, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. Naja002 New Member

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    Well, I've had a lot of fun with my other projects, but I realized a while back that a chiller would probably be my best bet all the way around. So, after doing the car rad(s)--indoor/outdoor, geothermal, bongs and HVC....I finally decided to do the chiller-thing. [​IMG] Of course, the chiller scraps everything else...except the indoor rad--I can still use that for winter heat. [​IMG]

    I started surfing around checking out this years A/Cs, rechecking on coolers, etc. I wanted one of the Coleman 150qt. 5-day coolers....but I ended up going with an Igloo Polar 120qt., because of price and availability. [​IMG] Still a good cooler, but the Coleman 5-day's (Extreme/Marine) reviews are outstanding! [​IMG]

    Anyway, I ran into a snag with the window that I had always intended to mount the A/C in (yeah, I've been thinking about this for a long time)--most/many of the smaller A/Cs require a minimum 14" window opening (height), but there are a few that don't. In the end though it didn't matter, because I said screw the window, I'll pull the rads and reverse the fans and blow some of the heat out the window. [​IMG]

    So, while still trying to talk myself out of this for at least a while longer ( [​IMG] )--I started surfing craiglist. I found a small Frigidaire 5KBTU locally for $50. Said: "Screw it". Picked up the cooler. Picked up the A/C. So, this was done....just a little assembly required...[​IMG]

    So, this is what I've come up with:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Plumbing coming out of the chiller headed toward the PCs:

    [​IMG]



    Return to the chiller:

    [​IMG]


    I really wanted electronic thermostat/controls and "Energy Saver", but I would have had to buy a new A/C, so that would have about doubled the cost.

    [​IMG]

    I cut a small opening in the lid for the wires, etc to pass through:

    [​IMG]

    Filled it with weather stripping foam just to help prevent the transfer of air:

    [​IMG]


    Marked my spot for when I close the lid:

    [​IMG]


    Pix of the guts:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I added a small 11w 200gph pump to help circulation inside the cooler. It definitely helps even out temps:

    [​IMG]

    2 temp probes side-by-side:

    [​IMG]


    These are the low end temps that I have it set for--the compressor kicks on:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And then kicks off at:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I set this up in the morning and it ran fine all day. No problems whatsoever. About 20 hrs later--I had alarms going off. I checked the coolant temp=116F/46C. I'm not 100% sure what the cause of it was, but I think and guessed that it was the temp probe. I'm assuming that the part exposed to the outside of the cooler was effected by the low ambient temps--so the compressor didn't kick on. So, I put some tubing over the probe length to help it read the temp inside the cooler only. Seems to have worked:

    [​IMG]
    I haven't had any problems since....[​IMG]


    When the compressor is off the unit uses 47-48w for the fan motor. When the compressor is running it uses right at:

    [​IMG]


    I took some on/off cycle times. The off cycle averaged 11min 55sec and the on cycle averaged 12min 12secs. So, for me that's close enough to say that it's going to run ~50% of the time. Problem is: that's ~5 cycles every 2 hours or 60 cycles/day. Seems like a bit much. So, I added 6 more gals of water. Hopefully that will help it cycle just a bit less. I encountered a small leak toward the top of the return bulkhead fitting. So, before I can add anymore (water or anti-freeze) I am going to have to remove a bit of the fluid and tighten that sucker up a bit more. Once it's sealed properly I can add quite a bit more fluid. Physics says that there isn't much I can do about the 50% run time. But it also says that more fluid mass should reduce the number of cycles/day. [​IMG]


    Here's a 38sec video showing the circulation and return flow:

    [​IMG]


    No, I'm not interested in sub-zero, etc. I'm sub-ambient now....just above the dewpoint<--worst case. Hoping I stay just above the dewpoint. [​IMG]



    Cost:

    A/C--$50
    Cooler--$57
    Anti-freeze--$55
    I had everything else.



    Other then a few very minor issues....I really didn't have any problems setting this up. My estimate is that it should cost ~$20.29/month to run this, so:

    Looks like I'm ready for summer!


    ApogeeGT water blocks:
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]



    Goes from the chiller/pvc to this manifold and then to the PCs:

    [​IMG]



    Crunchin' Boinc: WCG + GpuGrid:

    [​IMG]




    Index of prior Projects:

    Yes, Another Car Radiator Thread....Major 56K Warning!


    Bong! Bong! Bong! --56K Warning!

    Horizontal Volenti Cooler.....56K Warning!

    The Hole…Geothermal Loop…56K Warning!
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
  2. iStink

    iStink New Member

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    HO LEE CRAP

    I wish I had friends like you IRL.
     
  3. h3llb3nd4

    h3llb3nd4 New Member

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    Another W/C freak!!
    w00t!!
    nice work man!!
     
  4. Naja002 New Member

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    Thanx!

    Thanx!

    Just a quick update:

    I fiddled with the 1 small leak some. Seems that I've managed to get it stopped.....or 99.9% stopped. Not sure yet. But I've dealt with aquariums, etc for many years and know that this tiny leak--can be a royal PITA! [​IMG] But I'll get it fixed one way or the other. [​IMG]
    Adding the 6 gal of water seems to have altered the on/off cycling to ~20mins or 3x/2hrs or 36x/day. Once the small leak is fixed with certainty--I plan to add 2 more gals of water and 2 more gals of anti-freeze....bringing the total to ~24 gals. Hopefully that will drop the cycling to every 30mins or 24x/day. Still a lot in my book, but without adding another cooler--that's about as good as it's going to get! [​IMG]

    Covering the temp probe with tubing seems to have done the trick--no issues since...[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2009
  5. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

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    I love water chilled rigs!

    I have always wanted to make one of those to just never getting around to it....
     
  6. Naja002 New Member

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    Honestly, if you already have the plumbing know-how.....this has been one of the easiest projects that I've done! [​IMG] And should offer the best overall results and the least trade-offs....[​IMG]
     
  7. Dippyskoodlez

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    Nice, but seeing it on "max cool" and not letting it freeze makes baby jesus cry! :p
     
  8. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

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    +1

    If I went out and did this you know damn well that I would use one of the big A/c wall units!

    I wonder if the liquid is hotter on top than it is at the bottom Hmmmm
     
  9. Naja002 New Member

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    I understand, but that's not the goal here. [​IMG] I run crunchers 24/7....heat becomes a major issue. Heat for the components themselves and heat in this room. The original goal was to remove as much heat as possible from this room--did that. Now it's to maintain some reasonable 24/7/365 OCs at reasonable component temps without cooking myself in this romm at the same time. [​IMG] If it wasn't for all of the condensation prep--I would go lower. But I never know what I'm going to upgrade--or when, so it's a lot of work to add to the mix....[​IMG]

    That's one of a few reasons for the small pump--circulation helps even out temps....
     
  10. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

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    It's not hard to prep for 24/7 condensation:)
     
  11. Naja002 New Member

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    I understand, but I would have 3x CPUs, 3x NBs, and 5x GPUs to do all at once. For what purpose? I'm happy with the way things are now. The 2x 775 rigs may be upgraded to i7 any time, then again--may not. The Vid cards are now at the low end of what I do....they may be upgraded at any time. Bottomline is: It's a lot of work--for ME, not you. And a lot of initial work. I have 3 rigs on the system--I cannot do 1 today and one tomorrow and one next week--Unless I stay where I'm at temp-wise until it's ALL done. You guys will have to explain to me what the benefit would be.....? My OCs are fine for what I do and I wouldn't gain that much for all the added work of doing and then UNdoing when it's time to sell stuff off. I don't know who is going to buy my stuff, but the average bear doesn't understand the concept of dielectric grease in the CPU socket.
     
  12. hat

    hat Maximum Overclocker

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    Crap that's a lot of hardware... great job man.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  13. grunt_408

    grunt_408

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    Dude good job a cooled water cooling setup, My room isnt big enough for all that
     
  14. Naja002 New Member

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    Thanx! [​IMG]



    Thanx! [​IMG] The cooler doesn't have to be so big. I chose a large cooler to help keep the A/C from running 24/7. Lot of chiller folks use the 12-can coolers, but they go sub-zero and the A/C runs 24/7--both opposites of my goals. [​IMG]





    A bit of an update:

    Putting the tubing over the temp probe seemed to help, but only some. Ambient temps in the out-building directly effect the mechanical thermostat, so when temps outside (/in the out-building) get below the set temp--the mechanical thermostat shuts the compressor off and leaves it off. [​IMG] I've thought and thought, tried to insulate the thermostat, etc. I have quite a bit of experience from my +30yrs dealing with reptiles, aquariums, etc. I cannot see any reasonable, simple way to overcome this. So, I went ahead and bought 1 of these:

    [​IMG]

    Ranco 111000

    I looked at the Johnson Controls. I have a couple of Helix Proportional Controllers, but they are Proportional, so they won't work in this situation. Anyway, the Ranco have been around for a long, long time. They are used by zoos and aquaruims worldwide. Many, many animal keepers (public or private) use them. Convenience stores, restaurants for their coolers/freezers. In all: they are tried and true. Very reliable units.

    They offer heating or cooling (not both on single stage), temp range from -30 to 220F, and a Differential range: 1° to 30°F.

    They are designed for use with resistive loads (motors) and will resolve this issue 100%. The differential range will allow me to set the temps at which the compressor kicks on and off. With the mechanical thermostat it's 5F. Now I will be able to set it anywhere from 1-30F.

    I'm hoping it gets here this coming week. I did not buy the wired shown, so I need to pick up the wiring, get it wired up and installed. Until then: My water temps are 63-68F and humidity stays ~50% in here, so condensation starts forming at about 84-85F/30C in here. I'll have to keep the A/Cs running until I get this setup. I usually turn them up to 82F when I'm not here/working. The ambient right at the PCs goes up to 85-86F which is too high=condensation.

    Fingers crossed on no more major issues between now and then....[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
  15. daragez New Member

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    that's nice!....great work!....
     
  16. stefanels

    stefanels

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    Amazing works my friend... Keep up the good work :D
     
  17. Naja002 New Member

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    Thanx! [​IMG]



    Thanx! [​IMG] It's working very well all-n-all. Update below. Now just needs a little tweaking and I hope it's hands-free....:rockout:






    Well, the controller arrived a couple of days ago. I had picked up the wiring--went with 14 gauge. Call me crazy, but I would rather burn up the controller then burn down the building! I'm just kinda quirky like that! [​IMG] I got it wired up, no problem, but had 1 minor issue. While waiting for it to arrive, I learned that the probe (sensor) is not supposed to be submerged. Well, that kinda screws things up! [​IMG] So, I had a choice:

    1) Purchase a $30 "Bulb Well Assembly", pay another shipping charge and wait a bit longer, Or....

    2) Improvise. [​IMG]

    I chose #2. [​IMG] First was coming up with at least a temporary fix. I considered siliconing, epoxying, etc the sensor and wiring, but I really didn't want to do that. So, I got out a couple of aquarium heater holders and some pvc:

    [​IMG]

    I knew this was going to be temporary, so I glued the bottom submersed cap on, but not the top cap. Drilled a hole in the top cap that the sensor would squeeze through and then babysat the system for a little while. Actually worked pretty good really. [​IMG] The thermal conductivity of pvc is like 0.19 or something low, so I was curious what my temp range was going to be. I set the differential for 2F--it turned out not to be more then ~4F which is actually pretty darn good. But not good enough.....[​IMG]

    I knew I had a +1Ft piece of 1/2" copper pipe laying around, but also knew that I did not have any caps for it. So, a stop by lowes fixed that and while I was there I went ahead and picked up a rubber grommet. Yesterday I was pretty tired and I knew things could hold another day, so I procrastinated until today. Got my butt out there and got this fix fixed! [​IMG]

    Sweated on the bottom copper cap:

    [​IMG]


    Got the grommet over the sensor and a hole drilled through the top cap:

    [​IMG]


    Even though I could have sweat the top cap on and inserted the probe after things cooled--I knew that some time in the future I would want to remove that probe--the hole is tight, so I can't necessarily just get it back out. I chose to silicone the cap on and silicone over the grommet and wiring:

    [​IMG]

    I have no intention of submersing the top of this thing, so the silicone should do a good job of keeping the moisture out long term--that's all that's really needed. [​IMG]

    So, next I needed to mount it into the cooler. Why not go with a good thing already? I knew that the heater holders would not clip onto the copper pipe because it's just too narrow. So, time to improvise again. [​IMG] Took a small scrap piece of 3/4" pvc, cut it into 4 pieces, clipped 1 piece into each heater clip and slid the copper setup right down in there:

    [​IMG]

    Picked up a couple more gals of anti-freeze at walmart when I hit lowes, so I added that:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So, now there is ~7.75 gals of anti-freeze and 17 gals of water. [​IMG] I need to do another time study to see how long my on/off cycles times are now. I doubt I'll do it today, but hopefully some time this weekend. [​IMG]


    Just a larger view:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Oh, yeah, I fixed the return bulkhead leak by loosening the bulkhead and siliconing under and all around it. Not the preferred way to go, but useful in these types of situations. The preferred route is no leaking bulkhead to start with....[​IMG]



    So far so good:

    [​IMG]

    Max temp over the last 30+ mins is 70C. The mins kinda worry me though. I may move everything up a couple of degrees after everything settles in. I would rather move my max temp up to say 75C than deal with condensation! [​IMG]

    Oh, and I lowered my OC down to ~4.0 for now.....[​IMG]
     
  18. dr emulator (madmax)

    dr emulator (madmax)

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    :cool: loved it absolutely loved it thumbsup
    yet again the kind of thing i'd do here if i had more space;)
     
  19. trickson

    trickson OH, I have such a headache

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    OH that is just so sexy !!! Great job !
     
  20. Taz100420

    Taz100420

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    Hell yea! Now this is one extreme W/C idea ya have here. I know how to plumb from my experience plumbing up a few hydroponic setups;) All I need is the space and cash lol. Here in a couple months, I will! Great setup!:toast::respect:
     
  21. Naja002 New Member

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    Just wanted to update this:

    As many of you know, I try to conserve energy by pumping the heat from my rigs outside during the warmer months, and pumping it inside during the colder months. In the past I did this with indoor/outdoor rads. Early this last summer I did the ghetto chiller that this thread has been about (above). Well, during this last summer I converted a 5K BTU AC to a plateHX chiller. Winter is here, so now I'm wanting to pump the heat inside again, but I really don't want to give up the chilled water. So, I've connected the plateHX chiller to my manifold for indoor/outdoor chillers! [​IMG] When it's too warm in here I turn off the indoor chiller and the outdoor chiller automatically takes over. When it's cool in here I just reach over and push the On button for the indoor chiller....and it starts pumping the heat inside here. At first it was like: Holy Cow that's Loud! [​IMG] But now I barely even notice it. [​IMG] It does not bother me while I'm sleeping, but I sleep like a rock anyway, so......:p:

    First a quick rehash of the plateHX chiller:

    I took a standard 5K BTU AC:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Yanked the Evap and installed a plateHX:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    And put it back together again:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
  22. Naja002 New Member

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    Then I ordered another Ranco controller like above and got it wired up and ready to go:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Covered the probe with 2 layers of super-duper heat shrink and got it installed into a pvc tee and ready to be connected up:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Added some plumbing to my manifold, since I was short 1 connection:

    [​IMG]



    Set the chiller up where I wanted it and ran the tubing:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Added some filter material:

    [​IMG]


    At a 75F ambient in here the unit uses ~ 500w after the compressor warms up. It runs at the current heat load: 41mins on, 19mins off. So, it's on ~16hrs/day which equals ~$20.74/month at my current electric cost. That's a loss during the warmer months, but not during the colder months....helps keep me from paying to run the main heater, and supplements it when I do. [​IMG]


    So, it's a done deal! Works great! With the single push of a button I can direct the heat where I want it to go. Since it's fall right now the days are often warm enough that I don't want to be adding any more heat inside. But the nights are definitely getting cool. I've not turned on my main heating unit for the year yet.

    And best of all, I get to maintain constant stable temps all yr round. No messing with overclocks, turning valves, going outside to turn a pump on or off. [​IMG] Nothing. Just push a frickin' Button! [​IMG] Oh, Happy Days! [​IMG]
     
  23. niko084

    niko084

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    I wish I would have taken pictures of my old system now.

    Pretty awesome!
     
  24. Naja002 New Member

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    Thanx! :toast:




    Just a few pix of a simple upgrade...

    I got tired of the old zip-tied prefilter for the pump, so I decided to put together something a little better. Seems to have actually increased flow a little bit.

    The Parts (4" pvc):

    [​IMG]


    I really like the double grating idea. The inside grating keeps the filter material away from the 3/4" pump intake and allows the pump to draw water through the entire diameter of the filter:
    [​IMG]


    Cut to fit the micro-fine filter material....3 layers:
    [​IMG]


    Shot of the micro-fine....this end goes inside toward the pump intake:
    [​IMG]


    Other end with the blue filter material installed:
    [​IMG]


    The filter assembled:
    [​IMG]


    And installed, ( Apologies for the light reflection and the murkiness):
    [​IMG]


    Cost without filter material: ~$16


    Simple, durable, fast and easy dis/assembly.....[​IMG]
     
  25. Naja002 New Member

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    Ok, I decided to modify my ghetto chiller, so let's see....[​IMG] This "conversion" has been wrought with issues. [​IMG] I'm not going to bother to detail each and every one though. Had problems with the charging, evac, water tight seals...the list goes on. Seems as though I've struggled through them successfully though. The chiller has not been taken out to it's home yet, but is ready for that....probably tomorrow. [​IMG]

    So, on with the show:

    Rolled my evap = At least 2 dozen feet of 1/4" copper...2 separate paths/coils....3/8" in and out:

    [​IMG]



    Pulled the ghetto chiler, brought it inside, got out the piercing valve and got setup for the recovery:

    [​IMG]



    That went well enough, so it was time to put the evap together and get it mounted. My first attempt looked like this, but I'll tell ya--trying to get 3/8" copper through those 1/2" holes...without creasing it--is a task I could not seem to accomplish [​IMG] :

    [​IMG]



    So, a 1 hr round trip to Lowes and it came out looking more like this:

    [​IMG]



    Of course, I knew I should have left a few more inches of copper on the evap ends, but for some reason I thought I left enough ( [​IMG] ) So, I ended up improvising a solution to get the evap/res mounted to the chiller:

    [​IMG]



    I used these water tight sealing doodads for the evap lines in and out. Of course they gave me seapage/leakage issues, but I've managed to get them leak-free:

    [​IMG]



    While attaching the res/evap I added the low side port as seen in the vacuum pump pic above. And removed the manufacturer crimped off access port and attached a shrader valve there for the high side access port:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    So, now it's ready for the evac.....[​IMG]
     

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