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OMG!!!! Direct Evidence for Cosmic Inflation

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by Drone, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. Drone

    Drone

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    I'm not going to post wall-o-text here, go and read here and here

    “This work offers new insights into some of our most basic questions: Why do we exist? How did the universe begin? These results are not only a smoking gun for inflation, they also tell us when inflation took place and how powerful the process was.”

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  2. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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  3. Steevo

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    This is more about how the "froth" of space formed following the faster than light expansion of the spacetime fabric and its effects on gravity as one of the fundamental forces, specifically the quantum effects of gravity as the singularity that for a plank length of time contained all our known matter, time and space had to leave a signature and detecting it in its most base form, quantum particles and their orientation is the most reliable as there is little interaction with said particles now to alter their state.
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  4. Drone

    Drone

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    New link and videos







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  5. kwangso123 New Member

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    Is the expansion is caused leftover energy from big bang?
  6. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    So I watched the finale of Cosmos and it got me thinking about the problem with galaxies (stars furthest away move faster than those closer to the center) and how proving cosmic inflation may be related. If objects can move faster than the speed of light because space itself is growing, what if the object found at the center of a galactic core can cause space and time itself to rotate? Think of it like a merry-go-round: a bunch of people can pile on and not move relative to the merry-go-round but to outside observers, they are clearly spinning. Sure, stars, like people, are free to move about the galaxy/merry-go-round but when standing still, they're still moving because space and time itself is moving.

    If true, it makes the heart of the galaxy all the more interesting to study. This isn't something a black hole can explain.
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  7. AphexDreamer

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    Is there any chance the constant of the speed of light simply increases or decreases relative to your location in the universe? Since a black hole can influence light, perhaps the universe is just a giant light calibrator.

    EDIT: But then I guess we would observe lights constant changing right before our eyes and that doesn't happen. So NVM lol. Silly me.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  8. magibeg

    magibeg

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    No object moves faster than the speed of light, they only move faster than the speed of light relative to other objects, it is the distance between objects which is growing.

    As for objects rotating space and time, we will have to detect gravity waves first to see if that's possible because that would be an incredible amount of warping.
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  9. 64K

    64K

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    This level of scientific thought is over my head but a few years ago someone who was involved in Astrophysics put forth a solid argument to me that the Universe was not only expanding but it was expanding faster and faster. When I was a kid most people reasoned that the Universe was expanding still but the speed of expansion was ever slowing because eventually the expansion would cease due to gravity and then the universe would begin to contract ever faster until once again everything that existed would become condensed into a single point in space which would cause the next Big Bang.

    The thing is that if we ignore a first cause for the first Big Bang and accept that somehow it all started with a Big Bang an infinite number of years ago and ever since then the universe has undergone an infinite series of expansions and contractions leading to the next Big Bang then how could we explain the universe increasing it's expansion rate instead of a gradual slowing due to gravity. To me that implies that there was not an expansion/ slowing/ contraction cycle in the past and if so then that implies that this is the only universe that has ever existed in the past. How can that be if we believe that time goes on forever in the past.
  10. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    That's what I meant. The light inside the expansion was going at a constant rate but when you take into account the expansion of space and time itself, especially just after the big bang, the light going out, relative to the center of the universe, was moving much faster than the speed of light. This is the same awkward behavior we see influencing galaxies, especially those at the edge.

    I imagine it would be difficult to detect the waves from inside of a galaxy because they would literally be everywhere. Maybe we could account for that and attempt to measure it in a nearby galaxy. The motion of the stars close to the galactic core suggests that whatever is causing the warp also has a mass far more significant than the stars around it. It's gravity well doesn't extend out very far though (relatively speaking) but its distortion of space/time most certainly does.

    It happened approximately 13.82 billion years ago. We can tell by nuclear decay.

    I suggest you watch Cosmos, especially the final episode. He explains that the universe is not only expanding but the rate of expansion is accelerating. No one is sure on "why" but cosmic inflation is likely the "how" of it. Prior to the discovery that the universe is expanding, astrophysicists speculated there would be a "big crush." We now know that isn't going to happen.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
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  11. 64K

    64K

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    Yes, this Universe began about 14 billion years ago. What I was trying to find an answer for in my rambling was what existed before the Big Bang happened. If there has been an infinite number of Big Bangs/ expansions/ contractions then that seems unlikely unless in every previous Universe gravity was some greater constant than this one and it led to a Big Crush/ Big Bang an infinite number of times before this Universe.

    My mind is locked down to thinking that there has to be a beginning at some point. I can accept the idea of infinity in the future but infinity in the past always leads me to the same question. If nothing existed forever in the past other than whatever the substance of the Big Bang was before it set this Universe in motion then why did it only "go off" around 14 billion years ago? Why not a trillion years ago? Why not an infinite number of years ago? But that isn't possible because no matter how far you go back in time there's always further to go back. That's why infinity isn't a number. It's a concept. Even the idea of a Creator to explain the Big Bang as creation of this universe still leaves me baffled. Why would a Creator wait until around 14 billion years ago to make whatever was the Big Bang "go off"? What was the Creator doing for infinity in the past before that?

    Sorry for getting off topic. I'll check out the Cosmos program that you suggested.
  12. Shambles1980

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    you could argue that the recent most big bang is so recent that everything is still on the acceleration part of the process..
    time is relative and to us billions of years is a long long time, but for the universe probably not even the equivalent of a second in relative time.
    It is expanding, and there is a perfectly arguable point to be made that at the rate it expands then objects will eventually move out to a point far enough way from each other that they will never be able to come back to each other with only gravity to do it.
    however if you look at the milky way its rotation and the solar systems closest to the end of the arms (which we are one of) if they were ONLY dependent on gravity to keep them bound in the galaxy then physics says that they should just get thrown out of the galaxy simply with central fugal forces. so there is more at play than simply gravity. What that may be has no viable hypotheses yet though.
    But its fair to presume that even though the universe is still expanding and at a faster rate. this does not mean that it cannot eventually start to slow down.
    how long this may take. or how long it would take for matter to re combine (if at all possible) is something i could not even think to try and imagine.
    In them self's black holes do have immense gravitational pull so if we just assume that in the end all matter will be scattered out and will have eventually stopped expanding then black holes in them self's would probably have enough mass to draw at least some of the matter back to them.

    as for the big bang. it was't a single point..
    there was nothing, then there was a big bang which was everything. so it happend every where at the same time. not at a central point. so things are expanding but not generally out from the center, they travel in all sorts of directions. and other factors can then influence stuff. pulsars, nebula creation dark matter black holes, and gravity are just some i can think of.
    its a very interesting subject, but one we as a human race dont have enough of a grasp on yet. and then there is quantum physics which is a whole extra level of non comprehension.

    -edit-
    just to add that quantum physics dictates that matter can just exist from nothing it happens all the time in quantum physics. it just creates its self and then goes away.
    Some physicists argue that this phenomenon on an industrial scale is how the big bang was able to happen.
    (not sure why it didn't just appear and then go away like it usually does or why there was so much of it, they don't really explain that)
    again like i said though that's a bit beyond my level of compressional ability. and i will smile and nod at the argument.

    edit 2

    light can move faster than light when it comes in contact with a black hole. (in fact a lot of things can) but the problem with that is that it gets torn apart, even light gets torn apart, so things can move faster. its just they cant seem to remain in the same whilst they do it.
    its a bit like reverse bose einstein id imagine. but again its not some thing i can debate as this stuff is just a interest of mine not even a hobby.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  13. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Nobody knows what existed, if anything, before the big bang.

    Black holes can't explain the motion of galaxies so black holes are subservient to the forces behind galaxies. Black holes should be thought of as really compact stars because that is effectively what they are. They go around the galactic core just like our solar system does. It is clear there's something very different at play in the galactic core.

    ...singularity...
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
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  14. Shambles1980

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    to be a single point there has to be a point.. there wasn't a point so it was every where..
    you cant look and say ah ha.. here is the center that's where it happened. because it is ALL the center. it happened everywhere at the same time. its one of those silly sounding things thats hard to comprehend due to our conventional thinking of things happening in a space, but when there isn't a space for it to happen in and it itself created the space. the space it creates (all of it) is where it happened and all of it is the center because it happened all over it..
    There is also no edge that you can find. so you cant measure from 1 side to the other and say this is 1/2 way.. so there really is no center, there is no single point where it happened. it is just every where. Theres a center of a solar system, and a center of the Galaxy but there is no center of the universe it just is what it is.
  15. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Using light, we can determine what suns are moving in what directions. Plot the distance and trajectory of all of the suns then project that trajectory back in time and you find virtually all stars were, at one point, very close together. From this, we theorized the big bang. The "Big Ear" heard radiation everywhere and played a pivotal role in confirming the theory.

    I know what you're trying to say but that doesn't change the fact that the instant the big bang happened, everything spread out (by way of cosmic inflation) from a very small point.
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  16. Shambles1980

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    its not the easiest concept to grasp, i will admit. but all space that we know is the center, to us its a huge unlimited void so due to the size it must have a single point the size of the initial singularity that we can call the center..
    but as simply as possible to put, it simply doesnt have a center because there was no space before it for it to be the center of. and the space it created does not have a center because it has no edges.
  17. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    And why is that? Because of cosmic inflation. Everything was dispersed from where the big bang occurred so there is no physical trace of where the center was. As I said, we can work backwards, mathematically, to get a good idea of where the big bang occurred but we cannot be exact.
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  18. Shambles1980

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    but the big bang was everywhere lol.. if the big bang wasn't there it wouldn't have space for things to move in to.. If it had a center and the big bang did not happen at some point of it (at the edges) then where would matter move to. the big bang had to have already happend infront of where the matter wanted to go to.
    infact there really wasnt much more than hydrogen after the big bang happend. all it did was create the space and the base material(s)
    After the big bang (a long time after) other things started to form. so its hard to argue that these are being propelled by the big bang when they did not exist for a long time after it.
    you could argue that they are just in a free fall using eachothers masses to propell them selfs..
    but if i go back to the point i made about the milky way. if all we have is gravity then our solar system would have been thrown out of the galaxy a long time ago, there is more at play than gravity, and the big bang is not the only possible explanation for mass to be moving.

    you could I suppose, argue that the universe is alike a multi dimensional table cloth that is still being woven from a sigle centerall point. and that it has its own form of friction, and that everything is being pushed along on that like a conveyor belt. but that would not explain the rates of expantion. But would allow warping, which does occur.
    but all conventional knowledge says that there is no center to the universe. the big bang happened everywhere or there would be no space for matter to expand in to. and there has to be something we are missing.

    alot of it comes from our conception of what is matter and what is just an empty void. perhaps we need to better understand those to have an answer.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  19. magibeg

    magibeg

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    What is trying to be explained here quite simply is that the big bang actually contained all of our existence, and we are still within the expansion of it.

    A better explanation is that the big bang is a balloon. We can draw 2 points on the balloon and as it inflates the 2 points move further apart from each other, but as far as we can tell nothing exists outside of that balloon because we have no way of detecting outside of it.
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  20. DLGenesis

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    a theory. where did the big bang come from? obviously a universal black hole from the same size that ran out of space to encapsulate equalling the size of big bang leaving no limits pretty much for space to expand in repercussion
  21. Milo_the_Terminator

    Milo_the_Terminator

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    Not to worry When I wake up I'll be back to the real world, well at least till I sleep again then like groundhog day it'll happen all over again.
    As an individual we don't see though other peoples eyes unless we are dreaming.
    does it matter, should there be no matter, become matter. Quantum physics makes matter appear and disappear by coping atoms 1:1
    you go all will get this as I told this last time and the time before that. it only seems new because we live what seams like new lives. when you die and say reborn you would not the memory and are receiving all that are destined though your life.
    what ever you have done or what you think you will do you have done during the first run through the space time continuum
    every universe seems new though human babies are dumb though the universe provides.
    Jehovah will welcome us even me as our last day together will be the day the universe suddenly explodes and baptizes the earth
  22. Steevo

    Steevo

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    I have my (personal) theory, that it was energy/matter decay from a dimension higher than our own that much like when we caused electrons to disappear, came into existence as our universe when its energy level fell low enough in its own dimension to appear in ours, and the laws governing our empty universe were warped due to this intrusion of matter and energy where previously that was none.


    Now if that were due to aliens or a being causing this to happen, a slow decay of all energy and matter in all dimensions, a bubble popping, or whatever you will have to sort that out for yourself, as it will not be answered in our lifetime.

    What would cause Jehovah to cause the universe to explode? A bad piece of Halibut?
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  23. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    Whats amazing to me is the can tell us what happen a billion years ago and billions of miles away yet they cannot predict the weather with 100% accuracy here on earth or even determine the path of a hurricane with certainty. Hell they can't even figure out how our own species evolved from our ape ancestors. Yet they have "evidence" how the universe was made? Call me a skeptic but this is BS.

    I love Science and I believe in evolution and any discovery should be celebrated. BUT, the whole cosmos guessing game people seem to do is a LOT more speculation than real science IMO. Until we get out there......I mean "Boots on the ground" out there its all guessing from these eggheads.

    See its comments like this that have me CONVINCED we don't know WTF really happened billions of years ago. This comment came from the same chromosome set as those scientists that discovered the "evidence". Its all mathematical witchcraft.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  24. blobster21

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  25. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    It's always easier to predict something on a macro scale than on a micro scale. For example, we can reasonably predict that the stock markets will rise but we can't accurately predict what will happen today or the next. Weather is literally changing all of the time and if we are incapable of measuring all of those changes, we can't very accurately make predictions. The aggregate of weather (climate) is fairly easy to predict though. For example, we're very certain the Sahara desert is going to remain dry and Antarctica will remain cold for the foreseeable future.

    I'm sure Richard Dawkins would disagree with you. Firstly, he'd point out that humans are not apes. We share a common ancestor millions of years ago that was neither ape nor human. Secondly, in our DNA, proof that we evolved from a common ancestor is not just present, it is overwhelming. Thirdly, he'd point out that this isn't even a subject of debate in the scientific community.

    Think of the formation of the universe as a giant explosion. Crime scene investigators can figure out the details of an explosion from the aftermath. Why is it unreasonable that we could piece together how the big bang occurred by studying the aftermath? Evidence has been piling up for the formation of the universe (as we know it) over the past hundreds of years. We still don't have a complete picture nor understanding of it. Cosmic inflation is one of those pieces.
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