1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Open Letter to Epic Games

Discussion in 'Games' started by RuskiSnajper, May 12, 2012.

  1. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,608 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=473890


    Source Article:
    Here's the Letter Message:
    [​IMG]
    No Thanks ...


    [yt]vToX4dJ-oTQ[/yt]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,896 (13.07/day)
    Thanks Received:
    14,304
    Your point?
     
  3. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,608 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    He wants japanese developers to create spoiled ass games :p imo

    And this is a clear example of american conquest of dreaming of converting others into what they do.

    That guy from EPIC was never ever in my books of anything ... EPIC as a company is purely technological as it was made ... UT is a quake mod , and GOW is just like movies, totally non-international friendly ... come on, epic bluffing with this cliff B, ID Software is a tech company too and they don't have some big super story-creative people around there, but they don't have this big mouth talking BS around the web.

    So a guy that has created a game and often acts like a celebrity slut on camera, that only looks cool to some american kids bombarded by hollywood propaganda is going to make this BIG interviews "analyzing and dictating" how the supposably "perfect scenario" would be to teach others how to do rite/wrong ... well poop it. He lives in an illusion.

    This attitude is like exactly the same like the military elite ... so hey sovereign country, unless you do what we told you, we'll bomb you. I am sick of this cliffB and that POS GOW. Because you can't really score UT as the backer of the statements, UT was a quake mod, UT didn't have this views it was pure shooter, everyone could enjoy it if they ignore gore (like i do) ... so there's an international success but it can't be counted in this case.

    Non-Anime japanese games are fine with pretty much everyone, so full international here, a more than 30 year old legacy ... what legacy does EPIC have against nintendo? lol, come on, they need to grow up, stop sucking milk bottle and acting those camera douches celebirty yo-man-wassup shit.

    Did you ever saw any of nintendo's reps/ceos/developers acting like camera sluts in front of the camera ... find it for me if you can.

    If we just look the E3 ... did you ever saw nintendo conference putting up some nintendo personell to act like buzz douches that lack acting skills ... there were a few only, but none of them were nintendo employees. Now look the competition. VGA-Style ... Will-I-Am comes out to announce a game ... then some style-yo rap man comes out to annonce generals 2 .... this is what i call celebrity bullcrap, i don't want gaming to turn into hollywood. Spike TV and Geoff Keighley runs that POS and those gametrailers.com ... this is the biggest enemy of gaming industry, he's turning and influencing the society to then convert to look at gaming like movies and all that pimped up .... the main problem is, this makes the industry to shift and these corporate capitalists come in to EXPLOIT on it and I don't want the gaming to be eaten by this monster. The current monster is the mobile smartphone gaming, it needs to be destroyed to preserve the TRUE CREATIVE WORK of the larger game developers (big high profile budgets)

    I am not making this up LOOK THIS in fullness: http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  4. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    13,881 (4.87/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,616
    Location:
    Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
    I'd say it's just a way to help the Japanese grow presence in the western gaming market by making their games, or versions of them, more appealing to western consumers.
     
  5. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,608 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    I am just look at what the messeage might say to others ... I would say CliffB didn't mean that directly or so ... but that's what is sounds like, so i would like he is more careful what he says.

    How can you credit someones analysis, comments, advices, opinions on internationally spanning game franchises and companies, while he doesn't even speak in a language intenrationally appropriate.

    Honestly, the way he worded it, sound like some guy from just playing COD on XBL coming to a cafe and ranting off first things on his head, sorry :(


    Also Epic didn't really care for the consumer, they made all those X360 exclusives pretty much default. I would never ever bow to Microsoft. This shows weakness of Epic games, they can be easily manipulated by bigger conglomerates. The cash they get from the exclusivity deal seems more important to them, than defending the gaming industry health and legacy, independence. That's the illusion I mentioned before, he actually though he defends legacy and industry health by making japanese to work western games, promoting violence? promoting camera sluts? promoting celebrity douches? promoting spoiled-ass-gore-blood-GUNZ-kill-em-all dumbed down society? ... bwhahaha joke of the century.

    And then comes the military aspect, I like scifi games simply because they are VOID of these real-world event warfare stuff, I don't like seeing people being some kind of praising to all military stuff since it's all so false so frauded. Those people are intoxicated and mentally conditioned to do those evil things in real life, many of them beyond repair and get illnesses.


    If you want to go deeper, i don't mind about violence in games, but I dislike the attitude, the marketing, and all the HYPE that goes into making violence/western-style as a SELLING POINT, that i dislike, the EMPHAISIS put on it is unnecessary in order to make good sales of game software. The psychology around it is NOT a part of the actual game. It is a part of them trying to influence the SOCIETY. open the eyes. Some of developers are doing this without them noticing they're doing anything wrong or bad ... that's because they're them selfs infested with hollywood propaganda and all the celebrity crap in the west.

    The sole idea of caring about celebrities daily life

    That's the CLIFFB camera slut strategy - his twitter is FULL of stuff, he talks a lot, many people care ... so that's how he makes part of the marketing, he's exploiting his body to promote studio and games, not just his persona, but his dignity and whole public image ... how all he has to do is to rap a few rock-on strokes and he's in wonderland. I just don't like these spoiled rich-guy cribs attitudes, this was never part of gaming, it's uncalled for. Game developers used to behave and be respectable and have their word.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  6. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,608 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    One of the biggest arguments i might add is the fact of perception.
    Just roughly:
    It is not a surprize that all developers have some kind of bias more or less, due to their ignorance in other areas and fields, as well as general experience with the industry on a much wider basis, analzing all the factors, causes, reasons, results, side effects. Not all of these interviews reflect the true internal opinions of the companies.
    He might well be missing his whole analysis motto by his perception that supposably claims japanese developers cant make good game features that westerners deeply depend upon.

    The idea of multiplayer as a core feature has nothing to do with westerners itself, but its percieved by the specific society at large as such, the mainstream obviously. There are many people worldwide that do acknowledge themselfs the multiplayer at large being a core feature, some of them even as a secondary feature (bonus) depending on the genre, but they do not go crazy or give lower praise for some games that do not contain mp play, there are many different cases of where the reasons for not adding mp features was justifiable. Multiplayer is worldwide, its just in the west where the majority of this dumb mainstream market resides, who cant stand any game which has no multiplayer. And i will later explain another perception, this nationalized speaking for all idea of throwing all of the american gaming population in the same "westerners" bin. You will then see my true basis for the rants in above posts, those were mere personal ramblings towards the mainstream westerners, not all of the people.

    -----------------------;--
    portions of this post written out of sequence since i edit and add stuff later as this was work in progress ... as i cant bring my thoughts outnall at once. read this paragraph last,
    but i could fix , the whole issue is mobile device ... not a lot of editing options here. i migt fix later when i get back to pc.
    ----
    Plenty of detectable bias in cliffyb, he speaks for his market only, the avreage american x360 mainstreamer, many but not all, so he is speaking for all of the population then, that is an insult to the hardcore minority, failing to categorize it, acknowledge it .... etc. His interview is not an analysis at all, even how it might look like it. it is so one-sided. well its exactly what i ranted about, though i do believe some of it is strategical marketing, they dont tell you the whole picture, thats precisely why these interviews are so popular, they are targeted for the mainstream to read and most of them percieve it as the "good guy" or "our hero" effect describes, by playing with the target consumer as an emotion-laden ally and/or a "protector" in a way of forwarding, adapting their beliefs, opinions, (which are again all possible false perceptions that are basis of them) to your business side in the customer communication in this case ... just another way of marketing, very tactical and deceiving.
    These people then praise their master how "correct" he is... this supposably good stuff then spreads and obviously conributes to company's exposure or brand's recognition ... > popularity > sales.
    --------------------------

    ----------------------cont:
    What he fails to notice is the other most possible cause, of what if japanese developers DONT want to focus on features that really only westerners solely depend upon.

    Continuing, as you hear dev industry talk about how gamers skip singleplayer and go to multi ... but this is clearly spoken for the american market, its not only one reason of cause the most of the gaming industry in quantity is from western origin, they would speak for them selfs, but the pure nature of americans is very non-international from the lifestyle up; i dont believe some of them make these big interviews on a big site would automatically get credibility and out of the sudden be these "experts" on european market and other regions. And in this case its so much more obvious as we have such a topic, and the guy's past attitude doesnt help either.

    This is just the tip of the iceberg of the analysis, i have not even started closer examination of all the statements he said, and yet to finish the false perceptions explanations that are plaguing the whole industry, this here is jus one of the cases out of many.
    Those rants hold water somehow, if you understand them ... not many, for some reason i need to blow off my steam pressure first, then i get to the actual constructive criticism and explanation.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  7. NC37

    NC37

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,203 (0.54/day)
    Thanks Received:
    268
    The markets are too different. Japan shouldn't try to be western and the western devs shouldn't try to be Japan.

    The studios and publishers just need to get their thumbs out of their butts on having to dub everything. We miss a lot of fantastic titles because they want only dubbed titles for the west.

    This is a steaming load of bs. I've seen the anime industry here revive not because Funimation started bringing a bunch of titles here, but because other companies just started bringing plain subbed versions here. They are still very far behind where they should be, but it is nice to see new releases getting here within a year instead of 3-5 years. Don't have to download fansub shows much anymore because they are getting better at releasing.
     
  8. D007

    D007

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,269 (1.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    448
    Location:
    Pompano beach, Florida
    Careful, your treading a fine line and you just insulted me, as well as my entire Country. Idc how you feel about America, I could tell you how I feel about Russia supporting Libya if you want.? Keep it to yourself please..

    FYI I love the diversity the world offers and your assumption, every American is some evil doer, who wants to convert the world, is just.. sad..
     
  9. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    13,881 (4.87/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,616
    Location:
    Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
    The Japanese devs probably don't, but the publishers sure do.
    More market saturation = more money.

    You say that these companies should not cater to western markets, but if you want a good position in that market you must. It has nothing to do where, it's how markets work worldwide.
    You talk about multiplayer like it's a western specific thing, but worldwide, other countries are huge MP consumers, and saying that adding MP to a game is somehow a "westernization" of a game seems somewhat disingenuous.

    Your turn.
     
    lilhasselhoffer says thanks.
  10. flmatter

    flmatter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    290 (0.28/day)
    Thanks Received:
    115
    Location:
    Anchorage Alaska
    Y'all know what happens when you "assume" something right? . . .
     
    More than 25k PPD
  11. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,608 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    That was only part of the rant .... the perceptions of how these general words are used is what intended to go into next and respond to other replies later tomorrow.
     
  12. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,933 (5.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,364
    It makes an ass of u and me?
     
    erixx and Bo$$ say thanks.
  13. lilhasselhoffer

    lilhasselhoffer

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,672 (1.25/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,036
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    +1

    Cliff B tries to make the point that western audiences have different tastes, generally speaking, than Japanese audiences. Where is the harm in stating what is obvious?

    Yes, video game companies (traditional ones) want to appeal to a large market. The people running the companies want to sell lots of copies, so they can afford to fund the next project. Is there a problem there? The smaller niche games get produced, because the bigger games sell like crazy. Simple thought process there, as everyone has to pay bills.

    And before you comment, what is the biggest game in South Korea? It sure as heck isn't a single player game. Starcraft is a multiplayer game, with a single player training simulator. So, unsurprisingly, western developers have catered to "eastern" gamers.


    Perhaps I am going about this wrong. You obviously think this is a form of greed, which corrupts the "pure" Japanese market. I've got news for you. Japanese developers see more sales in the west than they do at home, so apparently western gamers consume eastern games, and the reverse. The Japanese market could not function without western consumption. If you're against that, then this is a discussion about capitalism and not about video games.
     
  14. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,608 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    That's his perception I was talking about. I was then totaly against this idea so I pretty much deny this accusation, people having trouble understanding my posts is nothing new, guess it's my english or what.
     
  15. xenocide

    xenocide

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,150 (1.60/day)
    Thanks Received:
    463
    Location:
    Burlington, VT
    This is something a lot of people are just now realizing. A great example is the PS Vita, which is an excellent system, but only sells a few thousand units a week in Japan. The PSP sold well and trailed off after each release of Monster Hunter. Bottom line, Japan for some reason loves Monster Hunter games, enough to drive system sales. Japan will buy any system that has a Monster Hunter or Pokemon game on it, and that's about it. The Wii sold a ton, as did MHTri, the DS sold a bazillion copes, as did the Pokemon games released with it.

    The Japanese market is something that really annoys me, because analysts look at how things sell in Japan and use it as an indicator of their overall quality, when the Western Market is a lot larger, and more indicative of consumer desires. You can see the difference in everything, jRPG's vs. Western RPG's wouldn't exist if it weren't for the target audiences having different taste. MMORPG's from the East are generally all centered around grinding with minimal storyline, but as the West is evolving, games like SWTOR and TSW are making the story a huge part of MMORPG's.

    Different Cultures are Different. Bottom Line.
     
  16. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,608 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    No. He throws all of the americans in the same "westerners" bin. This is the next point of the debate. He only sees the majority of those X360 crazy pimped COD kids. But he tries to dump all of the other in the same bin. Most of these people don't acknowledge other successful examples, the mainstream developers ignore it, they ignore Starcraft 2 pretty much ... it's just a handful of turely passionate people that actually are holding up the hardcore communities, these don't talk much, if provoked they are very powerful, but they don't have the steady presence the dumb mainstream does which dilutes the media's public view and opinions and makes developers confused or very dependand on what some idiot in an commercial article on a crappy site said. There are many stupid people in the industry as they are in the market, but these actually behave like they're some kind of all-know professionals just because they work there, just look your avreage game developer who comes from college ...

    Im not going to offense but it just looks like so many people in the mainstream bracket are also much less experienced on top ... compared to other regions.

    In Europe you have your manners, if you don't know something, you must know you don't know, you shouldn't comment it,you shouldn't ask stupid questions in public, you don't spread bullshit therefore. Almost 70% of the worlds bullcrap on the internet comes from the united states ... go to alexa.com and check out the nationalities in visitors for stuff like funnyjunk and 4chan ... but that's not the point now, it's hard to find an esitmate of how many sites, developers, industry people, know everything about nothing and spread bullshit thinking they're some professional guys. Just look twitter, there are so many self-guided know-how jerks of releasing hourly opinions and news and supposably their "knowledge" while they ask questions such as "What is this Diablo 3 game everyone's talking about" - a complete idiot ... i would kick this people out of the industry, the self-policing of the gaming industry is gone, we're been infested by mainstream corruption!

    There are many different people, i would say the ratio is farily big as to how many hardcore people there really are in there, there are, but it's overshadowed by this big mainstream presence.

    There are many people ... they just don't have this presence and I am pretty sure nobody of them is going to notice and come by this thread to give me some credit.

    There's also another thing that these developers awlays looks as europe being the same opinior or similar market ... well stuff is getting PUSHED here that's why something get's through, more so in lower age demographies who play every shit thrown at them, but i honestly never enoyed western style games, I rarely enjoyed a western game except the gameplay which is what I care about and can cope to ignore other things. I can't say that for nintendo first-parties.

    I would never play Gears of War ever because the other stuff is distracting and I probably couldn't cope with loads of cutscenes ... im not here to watch hollywood movies.


    And i don't like this throwing in the same bin stuff, it's low, it's unprofessional and it's just a mind of a mainstream. As you assumed, this was his perception of westerners being all of the USA, nope, not a chance, it's his perception of his market he's trying to exploit. He doesn't know how to provide services the hardcore market

    EPIC games has really never provided the hardcore, they made mods of quake, great, then they shit on the whole community I WAS THERE AND ON FORUMS I REMEMBER IT ALL. (UT3 times)

    EPIC Games was a weak studio, mentally, very cheap, they were the first ones to be corrputed by the growing corporate console dumbed-down business of stuff like EKS-BAKS-THREE-SIXTY (what a faggy word it is, bleh)

    ID Software .. truth to be told, wen't down as well, so much for 5 years of Carmack's focusing, he found out they made a terrible mistake of developing for consoles like X360 and PS3 since the PC hardware is going up fast.
    http://www.gamepur.com/news/5668-carmack-developing-rage-consoles-was-big-mistake.html


    He admitted that, but later when RAGE Shipped the guy actually switched back to the failed mentality and tried to prove a point of PC gamers not buying enough games - as he TECHNICALLY REALIZED it doesn't go that way of making games for the CRAPPY system than trying to make it work on the BEST system, but it goes both way, if you develop games for the CRAPPY market, how do you expect it will work without putting much effort on the BEST market.

    Ofcourse PC doesn't sell if you MAKE A CRAP GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE AND MARKET IT AS SUCH WHICH IS NOT COOL ON PC -- Stuff like puttin some non-international CELEBZ in a trailer. Im not saying Rage was at all that bad, it does have dev console so I don't care for UI-options but the point is the Bethesda publishing did nothing to promote the game on PC ... why they would, they know it doesn't have chance, they know it's nothing that will blow anyone away, at least on first glance, the tech behind it is very impressive but you need to be one of the minority again to notice it.

    Just give me a break ... just look Diablo 3 launch ... just look of the coming SC2HOTS ... blizzard is always blizzard

    Until Doom 4 i will have to chategorize ID Software as "asleep" as hopefully they get back into their minds again.
    Then we'll see what Respawn Entertainment does ...
    There's Blizzard and Nintendo ... as well as Relic coming in with Company of Heroes 2.
    There are also a number of non-bullshitters that do their on job, i can't list all of them but they make great games overall but do not talk as airheaded as you see others.

    But for the rest of the mainstream gaming industry just GTFO, their statements, their interviews, their opinions, all irrelevant, all an diluted perception, all an fabricated illusion, has no significance for the legacy, has no significance for example to keep a in recordbook as the memorable history.

    Best Article this year:
    http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ole-will-be-a-true-blizzard-level-experience/

    Which is again only a possiblity, the days after, Blizzard confirmed they don't really have anything running on consoles. Probably targeting next-gen, hopefully we don't see it on these current machines the worse console generation ever, the failed duo.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page