1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Ordered a Sapphire X850XT AGP but received X850 PRO!?!?

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by jcc39, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. jcc39 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    6 (0.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    ~11-28 update

    I ordered a Sapphire X850XT AGP card from Newegg. It is THIS card that I got. I received it on 11-22 and installed it and downloaded the latest drivers from ATI. According to Windows, Catalyst Control Center, and ATI Tool I received a X850 PRO NOT an X850XT. According to the box and the product page I ordered it from it should have 16 Pixel Pipes. Well mine only had 12 Active Pixel Pipes, and clocks were at 500/500. Most definately NOT the X850XT, but instead a regular X850PRO

    According to several other posters on multiple forums, they have also received Sapphire X850XT labeled cards from Newegg which were really X850 pro cards. I have contacted Newegg about my purchase and they offered to replace or refund the full price I payed PLUS a credit for the return shipping since we received the incorrect cards to begin with. I have also been in touch with Sapphire Tech and gave all my card specs and details including pictures, and they said I have a problem with my card and offered to replace it, but I think I have to pay for the return shipping. So far I have had a pleasant experience contacting both Newegg and Sapphire about the issue and am quite satisfied with their responses. So if any of you have problems don't hesitate to contact Newegg to get your money back as I don't think they have any replacement cards in stock. That is probably your easiest route if you don't want to deal with flashing, overclocking, uprading cooling and or tweaking your card.

    Being the tweak head that I am and going against advice from some users and my better judgement I have deceided to follow suggestions from dolf here at techpowerup to flash my BIOS to either X850Pro 16 pipes, X850XT or X850XT PE. I was able to flash my card to an X850XT with true 16PP and 520/540 clocks. There are several utilities such as ATI Tool and or 3D Mark benchmarks which you can use to test the stability of the card. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) so it can't be guaranteed that your card will also flash with no problems or that it will overclock to XT or PE speeds. Also I know for a fact that some regular X850 Pro AGP cards CAN'T be unlocked, as I had one a while ago, but nobody knows for sure with these X850pro packaged as X850XT cards, but so far I have not heard of anyone not being able to unlock their card from Newegg. ***Please note you are voiding your warranty and nobody takes any responsibility for flashing or overclocking your card but YOU. Knowing that I will post the instructions provided by Dolf below:

    "Use the automated flash utility for X850PRO VIVO AGP containing X850PRO 16 pipe, X850XT and X850XT PE BIOSes:

    http://www.savefile.com/projects/738578

    My advice is to unlock the card (X850PRO 16 pipe or X850XT BIOS) and to test it for max core/memory. After that if it can handle the XT PE speeds to flash it with PE BIOS. Keep it but look for ATISilencer 5 because with single slot cooler you need to use X850PRO 16 pipe BIOS."


    Some users have reported receiving cards with single slot coolers much like the regular X850Pro AGP cards, while others like myself have received the Dual slot coolers that usually come on the X850XT AGP cards. This really becomes an issue if you decide to overclock your core and memory. Some users with the single slot cooling have found that after flashing to XT or XT PE speeds, that the card is running very hot and may be failing because of the heat. Seems like the dual slot coolers are holding up a little better as they cool much better than the single slot solution but at the cost of alot more noise. The ATI Silencer 5 Rev 2 has been recommended by many as a solid cooling solution comparable to the dual slot cooler but much quiter even at full speed. With my stock dual slot cooler and X850XT bios 520/540mhz, I get about 30-40C at idle and 60-70C at load with fan at 100%(loud as heck) and temp readings from ATI tool.


    Below are my card specs and details BEFORE flashing the Bios for others to compare if they are having the same problem.

    Under windows display properties it recognizes my card as a X850 PRO AGP (0x4B4B). Says the BIOS is 113-A47503-103.

    Sticker on the card and box says the PN is 102-A47505-01-XX, while the PN on the PCB is 109-A47501-00

    Now under ATI tool I have the following settings:

    Catalyst Version 6.11
    Device ID 4B4B
    Chip Type R481
    Memory Size 256 MB
    Memory Bus Width 256 bit
    Active Pipelines 12
    Default GPU Clock 500.00...
    Default Mem Clock 500.00...

    CONFIG_DIE FUSES 0XFFFFF...
    CONFIG_SUBSTRATE_FUSES 0xFFFFF...
    CONFIG_ROM_FUSES 0x861
    GB_PIPE_SELECT 0x2724

    Info under ATI Catalyst Control Center is:

    BIOS Version 009.008.001.004
    BIOS Part Number 113-a47503-103
    BIOS Date 2005/02/08

    Many have advised to return the card first since I did not get what I paid for but I was able to the flash my card with no problems and played all the latest games over the Thanksgiving break. Good luck to all, and please post if you have any new info or problems getting a refund, replacement and or flashing/overclocking the card and we will try to help. Thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2006
  2. Grings

    Grings New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,303 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    187
    Location:
    Blighty
    return it, and dont accept any gumph about how its as good, the xt is a 16 pipeline card, however dacs are (nearly?) allways 400mhz
     
  3. micron

    micron New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    144 (0.04/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Why are people still ordering these cards when there are already ps3.0 "only" games hitting the market?

    I'm not an nVidia fan, but an agp 7600GT would be the least I would settle for if I was shopping for a low-end card.
     
  4. InfDamarvel New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    500 (0.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Well there is only 1 shader model 3.0 game on the market and they pretty much are going to skip over SM3.0 games and go straight to Sm4.0 I believe.
     
  5. Batou1986

    Batou1986

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,555 (0.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    409
    Location:
    Baltimore MD
    yea u got riped thats a pro heres my printout from my x850xtpe agp

    DevID 4b4c

    Chipname R481
    Host interface Agp
    CatVer 6.11
    memory size 256
    mem type ddr3
    mem bus bandwidth 256 bit
    active pipes 16
    default clocks 540/590

    Config_die_fuses: 0xFFFFFFFF
    Config_substrate_fuses: 0xFFFFFF9F
    Config_rom_fuses: 0xA60
    GB_pipe_select: 0x3FE4

    u got wrong bios to be sure

    Video BIOS Information
    Version 009.008.001.004
    Part Number 113-A47501-101
    Date 2005/01/18 23:54
    Vram Type DDR3

    when u do get a real x850xt get rid of that stock leaf blower and get an arctic cooler that stock cooler is EFFFFF'n LOUD
     
  6. jcc39 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    6 (0.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Does anyone know where I can find the correct BIOS, the Sapphire X850XT AGP BIOS. I used ATI Tool and was able to OC up to 585/610 or so, so I'm thinking it can handle the clocks, just need to somehow unlock the last 4 pipes to get 16. I'm gonna try and flash it first before returning it. My current settings under Catalyst Control Center are:

    BIOS Version 009.008.001.004
    BIOS Part Number 113-a47503-103
    BIOS Date 2005/02/08

    Any help is appreciated. Thanks again.
     
  7. dolf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,058 (0.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    30
    Use the automated flash utility for X850PRO VIVO AGP containing X850PRO 16 pipe, X850XT and X850XT PE BIOSes:

    http://www.savefile.com/projects/738578

    My advice is to unlock the card (X850PRO 16 pipe or X850XT BIOS) and to test it for max core/memory. After that if it can handle the XT PE speeds to flash it with PE BIOS. Keep it but look for ATISilencer 5 because with single slot cooler you need to use X850PRO 16 pipe BIOS.
     
  8. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,295 (2.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    973
    @jcc... flash it and lose your warranty. return it now. overclock the XT. Dont waste your time with the Pro. What happens if one of the quads is dead? Then you are screwed. Dead card, no warranty.

    I suspect you have been sold a "return". Someone probably "swapped" the card and no one noticed.
     
  9. 15th Warlock

    15th Warlock

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,840 (0.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,308
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    Don't mess with the BIOS, return that card ASAP before you void your warranty.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  10. Batou1986

    Batou1986

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,555 (0.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    409
    Location:
    Baltimore MD
    yea if you payed for an x850 u should get an x850
     
  11. jb3nny

    jb3nny New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Messages:
    97 (0.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kingston - Ontario
    hmm

    well on principle i agree with the people saying return before messing witht the card. However he can just flash it back to the original bios if the quad dosent open..
     
  12. dolf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,058 (0.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    30
    jcc39 the card will unlock and you should test it befor to return it. You can close the pipes using the very same utility which will open the quad ;) . It is possible to get better overclocker (X850PRO) than the expected X850XT :) . Just the cooling should be problem but based on my experience the original XT dual slot cooler is very noisy and you have to replace it with ATI Silencer 5 rev.2 for instance. Just use X850PRO 16 pipe BIOS in the beggining.
     
  13. vraxoin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1 (0.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    No, these are sealed and "properly" labeled cards. I just received one of these cards and posted a lengthy response, with pics, to jcc39's post over at the Sapphire forum. Check it out:

    http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/showthread.php?t=8822&page=1&pp=10

    Even though I'm the type who would normally try to unlock this card and get an Arctic Cooling 5 cooler for it, that doesn't make it right that Sapphire is producing these, even as a close out. At least with the X800GTO AGP cards you were sometimes getting more than you expected either core-wise, OC, or both. Here, you're not even getting what you paid for. That's a serious "WTF?!", right there.
     
  14. jcc39 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    6 (0.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Thanks for the info Dolf and others. I've decided to try to flash the card before returning it since the whole reason I got it was so I can play video games all through this Thanksgiving break instead of waiting for an RMA.

    I followed instructions posted using the auto flash utility. It worked quickly and flawlessly, now my card is seen as an X850XT with 520/540 clocks with 16 active pipes but I'm still doing testing and benchmarks to see if it's stable or not. Does anyone know if there are any good VGA benchmark utilities that I can use to stress test the card, like Prime but for VGA cards? I've run it on the ATI Tool Artifact Scan for about 100 minutes with no errors. Temps stayed under 66C the whole time which is pretty good I think for dual slot stock fan, but it is loud. Does anyone know if the ATI Silencer 5 cooler covers the ram as well? I also ran it through a couple 3DMark2003 and 2005s, and played a couple hours of Warcraft 3, BF2 and Counter Strike Source with no hiccups so far.... If it fails, I will just return it.

    I contacted Newegg, and they said I can return it and they will pay for the return shipping. Hopefully it won't come to this but good to know they stand with the customer which is why I am a loyal customer to them.

    Vraxion, thanks for the post as well, maybe this is not an isolated incident and is more widespread. If anyone else have had the same issues as us please post so we can get to the bottom of this.
     
  15. 15th Warlock

    15th Warlock

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,840 (0.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,308
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    Try to run multiple passes of 3DMark05 or even 06 to stress test your card
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  16. 15th Warlock

    15th Warlock

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,840 (0.74/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,308
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    Not the first time I hear Sapphire is doing that, some 6 months ago they shipped a whole batch of defective X800GTOs that would die after hours of normal use, lots of ppl reported getting the defective card within days of its release.

    Unfortunately, I had bought one of them, and it died just after about 6 hours of normal use, then I had to RMA it to Newegg, they refund my money as they had to retire the whole batch and had no replacement cards in the meantime.

    I lost the taxes I paid for the card plus the shipping and handling for the RMA, which Newegg wont cover. How is Sapphire allowed to do this with total impunity is beyond me, I'm never buying a card from them again. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2006
    Crunching for Team TPU
  17. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,295 (2.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    973
    I had a similar experience with Sapphire 18month ago with their 9800Pro. Lasted a few days, then color stripes. Not artifacts, but stripes like a barbershop pole.

    And it happened on the replacement card too!

    So I upgraded to X800SE, which was actually a great improvement on the 9800Pro.

    I now avoid Sapphire and go for other brands.
     
  18. dolf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,058 (0.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    30
    Look my advice is to find max. core/memory using ATITool. What to expect: for the core if it overclocks to 560-570MHz it is absolutely normal; the problem could be the memory which normaly should reach 570MHz or max. 580MHz. If you can reach 590 or even 600MHz without artifacts :D then you have NO reason to even think about returning but for flashing of X850XT PE BIOS ;) . The stability of the memory should be tested with 3DMark03 (especially 2 of the tests: "Troll's Layer" and "Ragtroll") be carefull for white flickering polygons which will be indication for the memory overclock limit at the present voltage. The overclocking potential of the memory decreases with rising of the temperature (over 65-70C).

    I just want to tell you that usually 1.6ns (600MHz) can't even work close to that 600MHz. Your can be clocked to 610MHz :D and for sure the next time you can receive one with memory which couldn't go over 560MHz for instance. I had X800XT which couldn't overclock more than 560MHz before the voltmod. My current X850XT PE (originally X850PRO VIVO) couldn't pass over 570MHz on the memory (before the voltmod of course).
    What is your original cooler - dual or single slot?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2006
  19. paul06660

    paul06660 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    84 (0.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Yep, I got ripped off too, and Im pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hey I just bought a Sapphire x850XT as well from newegg on Friday morning at 1 a.m. on 11-17-06. I had just ordered a sapphire x800gto blue that people were saying was coming out of the box with 16 pixel piplines. I had to kill my order as fast as I could when I saw that the Sapphire x850xt was on sale 3 minutes after I placed that order. 12 hours later after I secured mine they sold out. Freakkin UPS got my card delayed in California over the weekend and I just got it the day before thanksgiving.

    Ok, just like everyone else has been saying that they have been getting a Single Slot Card instead of the Dual slot card with the x850xt alien sticker on it, I got one too, and didnt know what the hell it was when I saw it sealed in the box.

    My card looks exactly the x850pro that newegg has for sale here:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102606
    Except I have the alien x850xt sticker and no ATI logo on the board over the fan.
    AND The sapphire logo sticker is on the 12v power connector and not on the board where the ATI logo was on the other card.

    More messed up facts.
    My card I received has all the stickers on the BACK of the board that say it is a x850XT and the numbers match the box!!!
    And on the box, it says clearly "16 parallel Pixel Piplines".
    My box looks exactly like the one posted earlier as well.

    Someone at Sapphire screwed up a big one here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I had waited over a year for this card to come down from 500 bucks.
    I wanted the x850xt or the x850 PE.
    I have been noticing that the x850xt of any make, not just ATI and Sapphire has been getting hard as hell to find.
    And when you do find an XT or XT PE you can still prepare to pay a price.

    Newegg DID have the board shown as the one in the pictures that someone has posted earlier as well. This tells me that Newegg was too rushed to get this out for sale because they knew it would sell fast as hell, so they did not take the time to update their pictures of it.
    Now we are stuck with these FREAK IMPOSTOR cards that are just x850pro's in discuise.

    I think that the best thing is to RMA the card to Sapphire and get a new one.
    Dont even mess with flashing your bios as if there are this many flaws just visible, there could be flaws in the circuits of the card.

    I have an ATI x850pro in a customer's computer that has the SAME readings as my card.
    500 mhz core, 500 mhz mem, 12 pixel pipes.

    I took the fan off of my card to look at the chip and it was inscribed x850 on the core, not x850xt like I thought it would be.

    And for christ sake's why does the card go up to 75 degrees Celcius when I play a game, is it the shitty fan, or is it defective on the inside?
    Does the Arctic silencer really work that good?

    Well, thats about it for now, so here it goes......

    P4 3.0E prescott
    Epox EP-4PDA5+ Springdale Motherboard, i865PE chipset, 800 FSB, SIL3114 SATA controller,
    with a Western Digital 74gig Raptor for my custom
    Pirated Windows XP with service pack1.
    Hitachi 250 SATA storage drive.
    Patriot PSD1G400KH dual channel pc3200 2x512MB kit.
    Complete Custom Raidmax case with custom UV paintjob and a
    550W Scythe Kamariki Power supply powering 14 fans and a Cooler Master Jet 4 on the processor.
    Sound Blaster Audigy 2 powering a set of 8 channel matching Creative p7800 speakers.

    And a Sapphire x850pro discuised as a Bastard child x850xt until I get ahold of Sapphire and get this BIG problem taken care of!!!!
     
  20. Robkins New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    22 (0.01/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    I'm in this marketing scheme aswell... Newegg will accept RMA, but probably won't send me what I want. I'm thinking about contacting sapphire, although they will probably refer me back to Newegg... In that case its best to flash I guess... Anyone else have luck?
     
  21. TUngsten

    TUngsten

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,044 (0.35/day)
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Location:
    CT, USA
    I'm in the same boat, the x850pro I recieved is the 2-slot version identical to the layout of the x850xt

    I easily flashed mine to the x850xt /16pipes, had no stability issues and later reflashed to xtpe specs. 2 hours of FEAR/Morrowind and no issues I could see, other than the temps: 75-80c...

    My question is this:
    What is the true difference between a flashed x850pro and an actual x850xt (or XTPE for that matter) if the r481 core is the same, the 1.6ns samsung ram is the same, the 2slot / cooling solution is the same...is there better testing done on the higher end ones? Are the x850pro cards w/12 pipes essentially defective 16pipe cores?

    I'm inclined to keep mine since it performs quite nicely for the price, but would like to know what the REAL difference is.
     
  22. dolf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,058 (0.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    30
    With dual slot cooler - there is one REAL and very "substantial" difference between X850PRO VIVO AGP and X850XT PE AGP and it is the label on the back side ;) :D .
     
  23. TUngsten

    TUngsten

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,044 (0.35/day)
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Location:
    CT, USA
    thx for the great flashing boot CD Dolf, and the reply.

    So to answer my query - I essentially have a x850 xt pe?
    There's no other distinction besides the bios? The models all share the same hardware?
     
  24. paul06660

    paul06660 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    84 (0.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    well thanks to Dolf's CD, I got mine to flash to the X850XT bios 520/540 very easily.
    My windows immediatly saw it as an x850xt and Ati tool reported 16 pixel piplines.

    I think that either Sapphire intended us to use our own choice of either x850pro, xt, or XTPE bios, or they just accidentally put on the x850pro bios.
    My Need 4 Speed Carbon looks a little better now, too.

    Now, anyone got any cooling solutions that acutally work good?
    My temps with the stock fan at 100 percent are 42 no load and up to 80 on very heavy load!!!
     
  25. dolf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,058 (0.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    30
    Exactly the same hardware. One exception is Sapphire which are installing 16 pipe R481 (they have only 16 pipe cores left) and 2.0ns memory. This is the only X850PRO card with 2.0ns memory because probably that were the original intention (to have X850PRO card).
    For all the other ATI partners and ATI the X850PRO VIVO AGP were just "side" product. X850XT PE which didn't succeed with the tests even for X850XT.

    The difference could be between 2 equal cards with 1.6ns memory (in most cases that memory with the X850XT timings) can't even reach the specification of 600MHz - usually 560-570MHz. Card with 570MHz on the memory can't be sell for X850XT PE that's why the card is relabeled to X850PRO VIVO and flashed with X850PRO BIOS of course. But the core could be very good overclocker reaching 580-590MHz (normally the 16 pipe R481 at 1.4V can reach 560-570MHz).
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2006

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page