Organizing a LAN party...

[Mussels]

I haven't seen a 10Mbit hub since what, 1999?
All professional LAN parties should have at least 100Mbit connections. I'll be damned if I have to transfer files over 10Mbit. Can't even find 10Mbit hardware anywhere anymore.

Smaller LANs are fine with 100Mbit, Anything 25+ (professional parties) should consider upgrading to Gigabit imho.

the lans i go to run 24+ port gigabit switches with fiber uplinks to the backbone. maybe we just take it more seriously.

 

[Polaris573]

Don't do a wireless connection. With 10 people in small quarters you're going to get a lot of noise and infuriating dropped connections. A consumer grade WAP isn't going to cut it.

Wires and 100mb switches/routers are so dirt cheap there is no excuse not to do it. Have your 10 people pay $10 each for infrastructure and food. Get a used 25 port switch off ebay for $25. Go to home depot; get a crimper for $15, a box of RJ45 heads for $10 and 200ft of cable for $20. Spend the rest on pizza and soda. Save the infastructure for next time. Call it good.

 

[newtekie1]

I haven't seen a 10Mbit hub since what, 1999?
All professional LAN parties should have at least 100Mbit connections. I'll be damned if I have to transfer files over 10Mbit. Can't even find 10Mbit hardware anywhere anymore.

Smaller LANs are fine with 100Mbit, Anything 25+ (professional parties) should consider upgrading to Gigabit imho.

Again, the LAN is for playing games, not transfering files. Perhaps the ones I go to just take playing games more serious, and care less about sharing as much pirated files as possible...

External hard drives and flash drives are for transferring files.

 

[Mussels]

External hard drives and flash drives are for transferring files.

i do not know a single person who does that, unless they're driving between destinations. USB is just so damned slow compared to gigabit.

 

[ktr]

Again, the LAN is for playing games, not transfering files. Perhaps the ones I go to just take playing games more serious, and care less about sharing as much pirated files as possible...

But hubs create so much unnecessary traffic, and probably induce bad lag for modern games with high tick rates, or that is my take on them.

 

[Mussels]

But hubs create so much unnecessary traffic, and probably induce bad lag for modern games with high tick rates, or that is my take on them.

i think there is confusion between Mb and MB that some people arent clearing up, 10MB = 100Mb, which is a switched hub whereas a 10Mb hub aint switched.


of course, a non switched hub is gunna suck balls for anything - if however he just has a badly worded way of saying '100Mb switch', then its fine for any kind of gaming.

 

[ktr]

No confusion with me.

8 bits in a byte, hub is a multiport repeater, switches uses MAC tables for packet switching, etc...etc...

 

[Thrackan]

Again, the LAN is for playing games, not transfering files. Perhaps the ones I go to just take playing games more serious, and care less about sharing as much pirated files as possible...

External hard drives and flash drives are for transferring files.

You are confusing file sharing with piracy. It's only piracy when you share materials that are copyrighted. It's perfectly legal to share game updates, patches, free programs and what not.

I seriously CBA to stand up, grab an external harddrive, walk around a LAN with several hundreds of people and ask whether or not someone has the program or update I want.

 

[newtekie1]

But hubs create so much unnecessary traffic, and probably induce bad lag for modern games with high tick rates, or that is my take on them.

Not really, my last LAN party had about 30 people, and the 10Mb hubs works great for gaming. Again, most of these games are designed to run perfectly and do run perfectly over 1.5Mb DSL connections.

The ping are slightly higher than a 100Mb network, but still way better than anything you'd get playing over an internet connection.

i think there is confusion between Mb and MB that some people arent clearing up, 10MB = 100Mb, which is a switched hub whereas a 10Mb hub aint switched.


of course, a non switched hub is gunna suck balls for anything - if however he just has a badly worded way of saying '100Mb switch', then its fine for any kind of gaming.

No confusion, I'm a network engineer by trade, when I say 10M hub I mean 10Mb Hub. Not 100Mb, not switch.

A 10Mb hub is fine for any type of gaming with under 50 people. Once you get up beyond that point 100Mb and switchs to keep the packet collisions down becomes more important.

You are confusing file sharing with piracy. It's only piracy when you share materials that are copyrighted. It's perfectly legal to share game updates, patches, free programs and what not.

I seriously CBA to stand up, grab an external harddrive, walk around a LAN with several hundreds of people and ask whether or not someone has the program or update I want.

Yes, but usually the large percentage of the network is used for Piracy, and not legit file transfers, and you know it. Usually the legit file transfers are over in the first hour or so because by then everyone has the games installed that they are going to play.

It isn't that big of a deal to have one or two externals or flash drives floating around for anyone that needs patches and game updates, and it helps if the drive is filled with the most common ones at the start, and any time one is added it isn't removed. But then again, you should come to the LAN party already patched and up to date anyway, right? Of course I understand that there are times when a game is going to be played that you didn't think was going to be played, so you didn't install it, but using an USB external to get the patches isn't a problem.

And you still have to ask if someone has the patch or update you want if you are transferring it over the network, because they have to share it over the network. Yes, some people just share everything and let you pick through what you need, but that is pretty much the same as plugging in the external that is floating around and finding what you need. I usually provide at least 3 USB Flash Drives and at least 1 USB External Hard Drive with the most common patches on them, then are up on a table for anyone to come up and use if they need a patch.

 

[Thrackan]

Dude. Simple. I go to a LAN party, not an external HDD party.
The LAN part of the LAN party needs to be fast, solid and stable.
If I was a network engineer I'd take enough pride in my job to not setup a 10Mbit network in 2010.
If I want a 10Mbit connection I'll play from home.

And hubs, damn serious? Go go gadget broadcast! And you seriously never had network problems with those? We used to have 5 people on a hub at home and we'd have broadcast issues and stability drops like mad.

You're a network engineer man!

Sharing is as simple as setting up a DC++ hub and letting people connect to it. Searchable and everything.

Heck, all I read is that you're anti-filesharing. Theres other ways to prevent illegal filesharing. Doing it on the hardware side is simply not the right place.

 

[casual swift]

I'm jealous... A LAN party would be awesome fun. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Disparia]

Back in the day we did fine with 90 people on 4 chained 100Mb switches. Of course, porno was of a lesser definition and file size then.

 

[newtekie1]

Dude. Simple. I go to a LAN party, not an external HDD party.
The LAN part of the LAN party needs to be fast, solid and stable.
If I was a network engineer I'd take enough pride in my job to not setup a 10Mbit network in 2010.
If I want a 10Mbit connection I'll play from home.

And hubs, damn serious? Go go gadget broadcast! And you seriously never had network problems with those? We used to have 5 people on a hub at home and we'd have broadcast issues and stability drops like mad.

You're a network engineer man!

Sharing is as simple as setting up a DC++ hub and letting people connect to it. Searchable and everything.

Heck, all I read is that you're anti-filesharing. Theres other ways to prevent illegal filesharing. Doing it on the hardware side is simply not the right place.

LAN parties are for playing games, not sharing files. I have no problem with illegal file sharing, but it doesn't belong at a LAN party that is supposed to be for playing games.

I have a Gigabit network in my home, but when I setup for the LAN party, I use the 10Mb hubs because they work, they are stable, and they allow gaming just fine. And more importantly they are cheap and I already have them. Could I upgrade to Gigabit? Sure, if I wanted to put out $300 in switches. But what would it help? File transfers would go faster and that is it, big deal. It won't make the games run any better.

No, I've seriously never had network problems with using hubs. When you restrict the network to just gaming, and people don't use it for file sharing, there is no problem. And as you said, I'm a network engineer, and I know how to set them up. I've never once had a single complaint of game slowness because of the network.

 

[Easy Rhino]

you dont need special equipment if you are hosting less than 25 people. just get a gigabit switch and be done with it.

 

[freaksavior]

you dont need special equipment if you are hosting less than 25 people. just get a gigabit switch and be done with it.

As everyone else said, just get a giga or 10/100 switch.

Last time I hosted a lan party, nobody had the games, I was pissed, we installed cod 4 on 4 computers through the lan. it sucked balls.

If they don't have it, don't wait. Good luck

 

[newtekie1]

As everyone else said, just get a giga or 10/100 switch.

Last time I hosted a lan party, nobody had the games, I was pissed, we installed cod 4 on 4 computers through the lan. it sucked balls.

If they don't have it, don't wait. Good luck

Exactly this.

For all the LAN parties I've thrown, I always make it very clear that the network is not for file sharing or installing games/patches over. It will be a 10Mb network, and will not have the bandwidth to transfer patches or entire game images over to allow people to install so everyone should have the most common games already installed when they arrive. And everyone usually does, which makes it so much nicer because everyone isn't waiting for someone to get the game installed. For the 1 or 2 that don't, they get to use the external hard drives and flash drives.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Exactly this.

For all the LAN parties I've thrown, I always make it very clear that the network is not for file sharing or installing games/patches over. It will be a 10Mb network, and will not have the bandwidth to transfer patches or entire game images over to allow people to install so everyone should have the most common games already installed when they arrive. And everyone usually does, which makes it so much nicer because everyone isn't waiting for someone to get the game installed. For the 1 or 2 that don't, they get to use the external hard drives and flash drives.

i dont know. maybe i am a bit more tolerant but i have never been too or hosted a lan party. but it seems to make sense to let people share files and download patches and games on the network so long as QoS is setup. that way you can limit each persons bandwidth and let everyone game with no issues.

 

[MohawkAngel]

Talking about lan party ...i got it for real cheap (8$) is it enough for playing Battlefield 2 or some other games in a lan party ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/D-Link-824TP-24-Port-Hub-/230360248900?pt=COMP_EN_Hubs&hash=item35a28a7244

Thx

 

[ktr]

Not really, my last LAN party had about 30 people, and the 10Mb hubs works great for gaming. Again, most of these games are designed to run perfectly and do run perfectly over 1.5Mb DSL connections.

The ping are slightly higher than a 100Mb network, but still way better than anything you'd get playing over an internet connection.

You still don't get it. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE BANDWIDTH, but how hubs work.

When I am referring to bad lag from hubs, I am talking about packet collision. Packet collision will induce bad lag (jam signal, wait period, etc).

Heck, I have seen packet collision caused by a typical 5 port HUB connected to 5 computers (specifically the unnecessary traffic caused by Novell's IPX).

Hubs have no logic in their packet switching. Clients and server will broadcast on all ports.

TF2 for instance has a default tickrate of 66, and one client will receive 1,584 updates per second for a server with 24 players!

I can't imagine all the trouble hubs will cause.

 

[andrew123]

I'd like to recommend you purchase an old Cisco switch and set the Frame forwarding method to Cut-Through as this will provide insanely good latency for your LAN party. (no frame checks, since most LAN party traffic is UDP).

 

[andrew123]

You still don't get it. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE BANDWIDTH, but how hubs work.

When I am referring to bad lag from hubs, I am talking about packet collision. Packet collision will induce bad lag (jam signal, wait period, etc).

Heck, I have seen packet collision caused by a typical 5 port HUB connected to 5 computers (specifically the unnecessary traffic caused by Novell's IPX).

Hubs have no logic in their packet switching. Clients and server will broadcast on all ports.

TF2 for instance has a default tickrate of 66, and one client will receive 1,584 updates per second for a server with 24 players!

I can't imagine all the trouble hubs will cause.

I second this post. Once you start using a shared ethernet bus, you start using CDMA/CD (Carrier Detect Multiple Access / Collision Detection) which _kills_ bandwidth. There used to be an unwritten rule that you'd never use more than 30% of available interfaces on a hub as performance suffers terribly after 30%.

If you get an old enterprise level switch, you can really 'fine' tune the parameters to get the lowest latency.

 

[Soylent Joe]

Alright, I tested out logging into my Steam account in offline mode on different machines and playing the same game on them at the same time and it works. When you try connecting to an online server, it only lets one of them join (obviously). The question is: When trying to connect them to a locally hosted game, will it still only let a single client join?

I am/we are also going to need some help getting some Steam games set up so that they're playable through the network.

 

[Mussels]

Alright, I tested out logging into my Steam account in offline mode on different machines and playing the same game on them at the same time and it works. When you try connecting to an online server, it only lets one of them join (obviously). The question is: When trying to connect them to a locally hosted game, will it still only let a single client join?

I am/we are also going to need some help getting some Steam games set up so that they're playable through the network.

it wont let you MP with the same account multiple times.

many steam games dont work locally, those that do often still require you to be online to play (they just send the traffic locally)

 

[newtekie1]

i dont know. maybe i am a bit more tolerant but i have never been too or hosted a lan party. but it seems to make sense to let people share files and download patches and games on the network so long as QoS is setup. that way you can limit each persons bandwidth and let everyone game with no issues.

Really, it isn't about not letting them share files. It is about file sharing not being the main reason behind the LAN party. I don't use the 10M network to prevent filesharing, I use it for the reasons I listed. It is fast enough for playing games and it is cheap. It is a big cost already for me to put on a LAN party, even if I collect a small fee from each person, I still lose money on every LAN and putting out $300+ just to make sharing files easier on people isn't worth it for me.

You still don't get it. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE BANDWIDTH, but how hubs work.

When I am referring to bad lag from hubs, I am talking about packet collision. Packet collision will induce bad lag (jam signal, wait period, etc).

Heck, I have seen packet collision caused by a typical 5 port HUB connected to 5 computers (specifically the unnecessary traffic caused by Novell's IPX).

Hubs have no logic in their packet switching. Clients and server will broadcast on all ports.

TF2 for instance has a default tickrate of 66, and one client will receive 1,584 updates per second for a server with 24 players!

I can't imagine all the trouble hubs will cause.

I quote myself since I don't like repeating myself:

A 10Mb hub is fine for any type of gaming with under 50 people. Once you get up beyond that point 100Mb and switchs to keep the packet collisions down becomes more important.

I understand the issue of packet collision just fine, obviously. I've use this setup my LAN parties without issue and my last LAN party had about 35 people. Were there packet collisions? Yes. Did they cause inefficiency in the network to the point that the games lagged? Nope.

 

[Soylent Joe]

it wont let you MP with the same account multiple times.

many steam games dont work locally, those that do often still require you to be online to play (they just send the traffic locally)

So, if we wanted to play L4D, there's be absolutely no way for us to play unless each player has their own account, with own purchased copy of L4D. Correct?