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PayPal customers will crowdfund at their own risk starting in June

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PayPal has announced plans to eliminate its Purchase Protection coverage for customers who give money to crowdfunding projects. The new policy takes effect on June 25th, 2016, and says "payments on crowdfunding platforms" are ineligible for protection. The broad move could be a response to the well-documented frequency of fraud and failure on crowdfunding platforms — one Kickstarter study found that 9-percent of all its projects failed to deliver rewards.

PayPal may also just be hoping to clear up some of the confusion that has surrounded its support for crowdfunding platforms so far; both creators and buyers have reported stumbling over PayPal's terms. PayPal technically treats crowdfunding and "preselling" differently, even though crowdfunding projects often essentially function as pre-orders. As Glenn Fleishman reported on Medium, one of Kickstarter's largest failures led to a messy refund situation where some customers who pre-ordered the Zano drone outside of Kickstarter received their units first, and were able to receive refunds, while people who tried to receive chargebacks through Kickstarter were rejected.

The new policy means that people who use PayPal to support crowdfunding projects won't be able to recoup their money by disputing the charge — meaning PayPal won't provide relief if a project fails to deliver, delivers a broken product, or is completely fraudulent. The change mostly impacts Indiegogo; Kickstarter payments were already not protected by PayPal. (Kickstarter itself also does not take any responsibility for fulfilling rewards, and does not permit people who funded successful projects to request chargebacks.) We've asked PayPal to explain the reason for the change, but it's likely the company just doesn't want to assume the risk from crowdfunding's ongoing trust problem.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/7/11...-crowdfund-at-their-own-risk-starting-in-june
 
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Also you can't buy membership on file storage servers(like: keep2share,...) with Paypal, I understand that they want to eliminate the fraud, but at some point the people will start to ask why to use them anymore, also today are more alternatives to pay online without card, than the day paypal was ''born'', like a antivirus , if it it is too much ''protective'', it become to restrictive, so useless...
 
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Doesn't come as a shock to me really.
I've been distancing myself from crowdfunded projects as well. I've chipped in for more than 10 projects so far and results haven't been good enough.
 
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I sent one to a friend of my cuzins his wife just had a baby, the guy had cancer. Next thing you know there posting photos from Italy:nutkick:
 

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I think there needs to be regulatory action because backers should have the option to go after failed projects but not on the backs of PayPal, credit cards, Kickstarter, IndieGoGo, etc. If the project fails to deliver, it is the project's responsibility refund the money or otherwise make amends. Failure to do so is effectively theft because these programs work through pre-orders rather than investment. Kickstarter et. al. always put a clause about risks involved but there should be little/no risk with pre-orders. Risks should be relegated to investments where the investors sink or swim based on the success of the product.

So, this decision by PalPal is completely expected but governments/regulators need to act more so than corporations.

That said, Fig is making use of new regulations that allow investment. I think SEC/Fig are going in the right direction.
 

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Hi! My name is Bob. I am an electronics enthusiast and amateur veterinarian from Taiwan.
We are developing a revolutionary device which combines both of my passions: a thermoelectric biometric RFID-enabled GPS-tracking puppy safety jacket.
With this magnificent device you can monitor your puppy's health, well-being and location, while being sure that your pup is warm and safe.
Due to embedded array of high-power thermoelectric Peltier elements, no cat or mountain lion will touch your pup, because his paws and teeth will get paralyzed with frost, while an extended battery pack and built-in solar array will ensure that the jacket is operational even in harshest environments for prolonged periods of time!

Funders rewards:
$1 - nothing
$10 - maybe thank in e-mail
$100 - a puppy sticker
$1000 - base puppy jacket pack
$2000 - Ultimate pack, which includes base pack, an array of neural sensors and an additional ultimate puppy jetpack
$10000 - 6-pack of Ultimate packs and a 6-pack of Stella Artois.

Don't miss it and fund us now!

I've been distancing myself from crowdfunded projects as well. I've chipped in for more than 10 projects so far and results haven't been good enough.
There are some decent projects, but they always get buried under hundreds of crappy ones... or shockingly ridiculous (like a bluetooth-enabled buttplug)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hush-plug-control-via-smartphone-from-anywhere#/

457% funded!
 
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But yet when I "sold" my RTA15 to an ebayer and I had specific notes in the item description for anyone needing support to contact amped. The buyer threw a hissy fit about it not working even though I tested it a lot before I sold it. I told him to contact amped about it and even gave him thier contact info. Nope he wouldn't listen... so I was forced at gun point to refund him and I never even had the payment clear either. I then had to GIVE EBAY FREAKIN 30 BUCKS AS A "FEE"!!!

That made me so mad! Paypal wouldn't give me my 30 bucks back when I did a dispute and ebay put my account on bad standing. -_- So I got fucked over royally

The guy didn't even use his real name he used a Marvel comics character -_-
 
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It seems like another case of warranty abuse.

Users who damage their hardware on purpose then go ask for a refund or a new product. That is why I am against warranties.

And I fully support Paypal... Let us end their abuse, that is what happens when people only seeks their benefits in detriment of others.
 
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If I was paypal, I'd do the same.

This is coming from a staunch paypal critic by the way. Centralized money that offers protections can't go into high risk environments like that.

Users who damage their hardware on purpose then go ask for a refund or a new product. That is why I am against warranties.

What about people like me who get their hardware completely wiped out by a defective VGA? ;)
 
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People need to think of crowdfunding as more of a donation than a pre-order.

Donate at your own risk!

 
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If anything happens, don't blame them for your loss... they already warned you from the beginning & the ones who are a loss in the end is none other than you.
 
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Ironically, the one crowdfunded project I did was known as "Mycellium Entropy." You can google it. I paid in Litecoin and it actually succeeded. Even some sketchy projects can have returns. ;)
 

the54thvoid

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I bought into this weird thing called "Star Citizen". WTF happened to that.

Sarcasm tags required, as are cynical tags too. I mean seriously - move to a release date schedule and stop being cocks.
 

silentbogo

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Ironically, the one crowdfunded project I did was known as "Mycellium Entropy." You can google it. I paid in Litecoin and it actually succeeded. Even some sketchy projects can have returns. ;)
This sounds very familiar. A year or two ago there was a project on Hackaday, in which a guy implemented a TRNG based on hardware uncertainty in ATTiny MCU (thanks to Atmel's crappy watchdog timer).
 
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This sounds very familiar. A year or two ago there was a project on Hackaday, in which a guy implemented a TRNG based on hardware uncertainty in ATTiny MCU (thanks to Atmel's crappy watchdog timer).

Similar, but this was based on entropy in SRAM. It's apparently pretty entropic at poweron.
 

silentbogo

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Similar, but this was based on entropy in SRAM. It's apparently pretty entropic at poweron.
Yep. Pretty cool device. I was just looking through their Indiegogo campaign.

I'll look into it, because WDT-based generator is a bit slow (~1 random number per second). It looks like this approach is a lot more capable. If the Bitcoin thing does not work out - it still has a potential of becoming a decent hardware-based password manager/generator (always wanted to build one myself :p).
 
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Yep. Pretty cool device. I was just looking through their Indiegogo campaign.

I'll look into it, because WDT-based generator is a bit slow (~1 random number per second). It looks like this approach is a lot more capable. If the Bitcoin thing does not work out - it still has a potential of becoming a decent hardware-based password manager/generator (always wanted to build one myself :p).

They already built a run, and I don't know if they are doing another run, never checked into it after I got my device honestly. That was in early 2015.
 

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Hi! My name is Bob. I am an electronics enthusiast and amateur veterinarian from Taiwan

Hold it right there "Bob"! :) Your first two sentances raise several red flags with me. At that point, I don't care what you are offering, I'm not investing.

What's sad is the number of people that will overlook those first couple sentances, as well as the other red flags, and hand over their money. SMH.
 
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Hold it right there "Bob"! :) Your first two sentances raise several red flags with me. At that point, I don't care what you are offering, I'm not investing.

What's sad is the number of people that will overlook those first couple sentances, as well as the other red flags, and hand over their money. SMH.

Hey, I can't really talk, I invested in a project whose spokesperson was essentially an eastern european guy who knew some maths (supposedly). It's amazing he didn't upload malware to my computer in the donation page.

I'm kidding, of course. Well, not really. He had few qualifications but not just eastern europeans make malware. I'm sure all races are good at that by now.
 

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What's sad is the number of people that will overlook those first couple sentances, as well as the other red flags, and hand over their money. SMH.
Well, most people fail to notice the essential concept behind Kickstarter, Indiegogo and other similar projects: if you give someone money, it is not a purchase, but a donation to the cause.
This is why the safety of your money relies on this ability to differentiate between fraud and legit project (just like you did with my awesome puppy jacket :roll:).

PayPal was not responsible on resolving disputes and returns on donations before, so now they are simply bringing everyone's attention to the issue specifically in regards to Kickstarter.
What really sucks is that KS allows non-physical projects (art, games etc.) from everywhere in the world, but they do have many limitations for tech projects (like the one I've described :cry:).
In case of games it's really easy to fool people into thinking that your game is awesome simply by marketing and hype. And when you fail to deliver - there are pretty much no consequences...
 
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