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Phenom II against intels old and new chips all oced to 3.7ghz

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by trt740, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. trt740

    trt740

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    not really remember these chips ,phenom II s ,are running in two + year old chipsets, with new chipsets and DDR3 you have know idea how fast they might be. Look at how fast they are already with AM2 and AM2+ chipsets, with pre beta bios, and ES samples.
  2. [I.R.A]_FBi

    [I.R.A]_FBi New Member

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    so tom how much percent do you think is in the bag
  3. kid41212003

    kid41212003

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    http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1124/1/ddr_3_gaming_performance_analysis/index.html

    http://www.breakitdownblog.com/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333-does-speed-matter/

    http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=1
    ....
  4. trt740

    trt740

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    Not sure what these are for , they are with intel chips not AMD and your are assuming they are engineered the same ( and they are not similar at all), and your not taking into account a new chip set is coming for AMD. This would be like putting a new 1366 chip in a old 775 chipset, with ddr2 and saying it would perform like it does now. Remember AMD has alway been better with memory than intel and has been in the memory controller business alot longer than intel.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  5. xvi

    xvi

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    :laugh: Ahahaha! I... You.. you said old.. WAAAHahahaha!:laugh:

    If that's old, then what would you call this machine I picked up. 166 MHz Pentium with MMX.
    Froze in the middle of POST. Fixed it by re-seating the external L2. Does your fancy-smancy Phenom II or your Core 2 Quad have external L2? Yeah, I didn't think so.

    Even Ol' Sempy (in system specs) is getting a bit long in the tooth.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  6. kid41212003

    kid41212003

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    Longer doesn't mean better, the bandwidth king is no longer AMD's.

    But well, there are plenty of time until AM3 DDR3 is out.
  7. trt740

    trt740

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    longer? we have no idea how ddr3 will effect the performance of the P2 or a updated chipset. You don't know that intel is the bandwidth king.
  8. trt740

    trt740

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    neither of these posts belong on this thread.
  9. kid41212003

    kid41212003

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    Games don't need more bandwidth than the current DDR2 can offers, new chipset or faster DDR3 won't help much.
  10. farlex85

    farlex85 New Member

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    That's not really a fair analogy, as 1366 brought a number of architectural changes, well a complete overhaul: QPI, DDR3, HT, ect. AM3 as far as I can tell is simply AM2 w/ DDR3, same old K10. I can't see the improvement being as drastic as in intel's case, and that's why you couldn't use a i7 in 775.

    There's more than just games though, games really aren't that relevant outside of gpu benches. I was under the impression memory speed and bandwidth made very little difference on gaming performance (within reason of course, and w/o dedicated gddr it gets more important).
  11. kysg New Member

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    and you making comments about it geez your worse than a little kid...lighten up:roll:

    but before I get told off on what I should be saying. I'll say this much, phenom II is doing pretty good. I just don't see it happening it getting released at 200 bucks though for the 920. Just couldn't imagine it, unless they plan on kicking x3's out there for cheap. It is good to see it doing better than agena, even better than some of the quads. Still I am skeptical about performance of DDR3 and the AM3 chipset as a whole, the most we can really expect is just lower consumption on the memory, heck we have yet to see a chipset that made a cpu run that much better with the exception to ocing.
  12. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    To be honest Tom, AMD's IMC's have always kinda been under performing in terms of bandwidth. Just look at the bandwidth tests in the link in the OP. The 775 setup had more bandwidth than the AMD setups. The AMDs did have slightly better latency, tho.
  13. trt740

    trt740

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    We will have to wait and see and I wasn't only taking about ram I was also talking about on chip memory management as well. Remember the phenom does have a DDR3 controller aswell, why AMD doesn't use it is because it didn't make much difference , but the new Phenom is 45nm, has an a improved DDR2 and DDR3 controller, more on chip memory, better chipset instruction ,built in ACC and appears on average to over clock about 800 mghz, each core higher on existing platforms than the phenom did. That to me is hardly the same chip.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  14. xvi

    xvi

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    If I recall correctly, the Phenom II suffered a bit in core to core bandwidth. The new, increased HyperTransport bus should aid in that, should it not?

    I agree with you that DDR3 may not offer much to the AM3 Phenoms (if not hurt with their higher latencies), but can anything be said about the chipset yet? Will we still be using SB750s? Improved IMC?

    Come to think of it, will we see any changes in the AM3 Phenom II? ..or will it just be "adapted" for AM3.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  15. r9

    r9

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    Just read my signature.
    And some facts why I`m not impressed.
    i7 at 2.6 GHz is 20+ % faster than 15% higher clocked PII 940 that is roughly 35%+ lower performance efficiency MHz to MHz from CPU that have equal transistor count and because of that similar production cost i7 that is.
  16. DRDNA

    DRDNA

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    WOW TPU members are so passionate about their processors:toast::rockout::rockout:
    You can take my house.
    You can take My job .
    You can take my car.
    BUT DON'T TOUCH THE PC !
    lol:roll::roll::roll:
    Back to the subject:The PII is at least now heading in the correct direction..maybe the next editions will be right on par!?! ...I hope so because I miss stomping benchmarks with an AMD !But for now I am sticking with Intel's i7 so I can get to stomping benchmarks !:eek:;):rockout:
  17. trt740

    trt740

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    and a i7 costs about 50.00 or more and it's motherboard averages about 200.00 to 250.00 more than a decent phenom board, plus decent ddr3 is about 50.00 more expensive per kit than ddr2 . So for that 20 percent you are paying 350.00 to 400.00 more for the intel system and that is not worth it considering a Phenom II will eat up anything, anyone can throw at it ,and will not bottle neck any gpu out. The intel system is overkill and I for one am a fan of overkill, but the phenom II is the better bang for the buck.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
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  18. r9

    r9

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    I`m talking about the CPU only not whole platform that is different matter.
    And what Phenom II means for AMD and from tech view.
    For the price of platform, yes Phenom II does make sense.
    And in my opinion for AM3 Phenoms II it would be better to use extra die space for triple channel mem controler than backwards compatibility to DDRII that would give em more edge.
    And that advantage in price of mobo and memory will dissolve in short time cheaper intel mobos will surface and DDRIII price will fall.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  19. trt740

    trt740

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    What the phenom II means to AMD is you don't have to throw out your whole system, buy new ram and motherboard to increase performance significantly. Intel on the other hand wants to make you constantly do total rebuilds, and intel changes it's socket as often as it can thats what it means to people who are tired of that crap, and to AMD I say bravo
  20. r9

    r9

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    And price difference is 25$ no more.
    AMD and Intel about socket number they are the same.
    Some times when you want to make step up in performace changes are need that means both for AMD and Intel.

    I`m not trying to start fight just common sense and facts.
    We all are using our CPU overclocked so when we compare CPU for us it is overclocked frequency that matters. From that point of view i7 is 4.2GHz and PII is 3.9 and that is because of yours OC every overclock that I read is 3.8 GHz.
    And i7 at 2.6 GHz is 20%+ faster what is happening when i7 is 300 MHz over PII and take in to account 35%+ eficency MHz to MHz and 7% those 300MHz extra you end up with 40% performance difference. That my man how you chose to look at it makes not difference it is a big gap for 25$ in price difference.
    And difference between Q6600 at 2.4 and PII 940 at 3.0 GHz is just 12% and Q6600 is 100$ cheaper and it uses DDRII and mobo in price range of PII board even cheaper P35 will do the job.
    All the numbers are from reviews that come up today.
  21. phanbuey

    phanbuey

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    AMD did that with 939 to AM2, then AM2 to AM2+, soon AM3... LGA 775 has been around since p4 and intel just changed it.

    The phenom is a good chip, it has its strengths... but its a bit too late. All intel has to do is drop Q9550 price.
  22. Darren

    Darren New Member

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    R9,

    Sorry for calling you a troll earlier, I should have been a bit more patient. However, when you boast about having an "Anti-AMD" quote in your signature it is only natural that people will get offended. Your signature also shows that you're immature and childish that you're unable to articulate a discussion and your only objective is to force propaganda down our throats.

    You have already expressed that a few days ago that you are not happy with the AMDs Phenom IIs performance and pricing, these are your opinions and you have every right to express them. However, you constantly create new posts that contain very little value to the positive discussion it gets quite frustrating, especially when you make bogus attempts to convert everybody into embracing Intel. If you are so in love with the Intel's range what is stopping you creating a thread based around the i7? if you can not respect peoples reasoning for making a educated purchase then people might find it hard to respect you, the Phenom II can be considered an educated purchase.

    I've already explained yesterday that the pricing for Intel and AMD components vary country to country and I've already explained that prices of all components are high during the initial release period because retailers know that fan boys will buy overpriced components on release just for the luxury of owning the first batch. Prices will eventually stablise in a few weeks. I've already said this before and you even agreed with me, yet you've brought up this weak pricing argument yet again in #95.

    PS.
    For someone that likes quoting Anandtech's "final words" in your signature you do a bad job of it, below makes up for your Intel bias quoting :)

    Compared to the Core 2 Quad Q9400, the Phenom II X4 940 is clearly the better pick. While it's not faster across the board, more often than not the 940 is equal to or faster than the Q9400.

    the Phenom II X4 920 vs. Q9300/Q8200; AMD wins that comparison at the same price point. Compared to the Q9400, the Phenom II X4 920 falls behind..
    if you have a Socket-AM2+ motherboard with BIOS support for Phenom II there's no question - Phenom II is the best upgrade path for you. .


    If you are trying to build a new system from scratch, I'd suggest waiting for either the Socket-AM3 CPUs or see what Intel does with its pricing later this month.

    http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3492&p=20
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  23. Conflict0s

    Conflict0s

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    I think what Amd are doing now with there Cpu's and Mb it great, because people can upgrade more efficiently and "keep up to times" with technology at a cheaper cost, So if people have a little spare cash and they want to update there pc a little, they can get rid of there DD2 and put some DDR3 in, weather this will make a different or not to performance, it is still nice to have that choice in most peoples eyes (I know Intel do this also, I am just pointing out). Also there mb's you can have old Cpu’s in along with new processers. Overall I believe Amd are going in the right direction. I mean I am just thinking outside the box here a little but image in the future having a Phenom II in a laptop, personally I think the laptop would be allot cheaper than if an i7 was in it (judging by my opinion in prices Vs each other).
    On the other hand, I also love what Intel are doing as they are pushing technology to show what they can do, and personally if I was Intel I would be pushing to see how fast I could get a cpu and if that made the price a little higher for that extra performance then so be it because they have "fall back cpu's" that if people want a good cpu for a good price then they have it, But for enthusiast’s such as yourselves can go out and buy faster chips. I mean you can’t deny that i7 cores are selling like crazy just because people want/need the performance and in some cases just want to show off their pc that they love so much.

    Anyways I know this is probably going to get ripped to bits by people but I just wanted to say my opinion. And trust me when I say, I think of AMD and Intel as equals weather it be price to performance or whatever, I am sure they already have plans for what there cpu's will be used for and who they intend to aim at.
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  24. trt740

    trt740

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    Am2 chips are compatible with AM2+ and Am3+ chips are compatible with Am2 and Am2+ motherboards. They have only changed the socket once in your analogy. Not sure your point now had the new intel chips been been 775 compatible your point may have made sense but they are not. As to the 25.00 difference well your forgetting the DDR3 upgrade and motherboard are you not? and even with a 25. 00 difference the motherboard are very far apart price wise. It still makes the upgrade at least 275.00 or more over a Phenom II system. Also my overclock is with a 59.00 motherboard or atleast it was when I bought it and it has only three cpu voltage settings.
  25. kid41212003

    kid41212003

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    The Core i7 is not a mainstream platform, It's for enthusiast.

    If the rumor about the Core i5 is true, then you will see this board using dual channel DDR2. Which will replace the current mainstream, E8000, Q9000.

    AMD did sell some of their processors at $1000 mark, because it was the fastest one at that time, If Phenom II 940BE is the fastest processor right now, you will see AMD price them at $1000 mark. It's normal for both Intel and AMD.

    AMD started doing "Low cost, budget platform that great for gamers", since the Core 2 Duo started showing up.

    How much the Phenom II is faster than Q6600? And how much it cost more? I can build a same system which is cheaper with Q6600, or E8400, and still run games as fast.

    The current price for Phenom II is unreasonable. I expect them to drop respectively from $280, and $230 to $235, and $200.

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