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Premature Babies and Abortion

Discussion in 'General Nonsense' started by KieranD, May 28, 2008.

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  1. KieranD

    KieranD

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    I just saw Newsnight or whatever it was and they were talking about premature babies. Now we just had a vote on Abortion in the UK and they decided to keep it at 24 weeks. I totally disagree with abortion, if there is proper counselling and support there is no need for any abortions. Even teen pregnancy you can get support to help you through this.

    Abortion in the UK has become a contraception which is unacceptable. We also have the highest rate of abortion in Europe and high repeat abortions.

    What i saw on Newsnight was people wanting to decide on quality of life and if premature babies should be given medical care to keep them alive, they were suggesting that premature babies might live lower quality of lives or become disabled or become a burden or care might cost loads and it wouldnt be economical. It wasnt like they were suggesting this rather telling us its being discussed and they talked to various people who thought different things. There were also supporters of trying to keep premature babies alive. They talked about Dutch law and how a whole infrastructure needs to be created for babies that are being kept alive at earlier weeks and how whne they grow up they might need support ect.

    I personally know people who were born premature and i have a family member who needs care and i know they live good life's and are loved. Every person has a right to life.

    Im not even using my religion as a factor it is obvious and simple to see that quality of life cannot be judged.

    Is it better to try keep alive premature babies? Yes i think it is.
    I also thought this discussion might include abortion.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
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  2. Nemesis881 New Member

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    I am against abortion as well, but in the rare instance where the child wouldn't get the proper care it needed you might as well get an abortion. 9/10 times this isn't the case but I'd rather someone die in peace than to suffer.
     
  3. WhiteLotus

    WhiteLotus

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    I am for abortion and yes the needless care of infants that will become a burden no matter how much you love them. I see mentally "challenged" people everyday and i see them living a less than happy life - i see this as inhumane

    on abortion - what if your 15 year old daughter was raped, repeatedly, tortured and abused for hours on end, and then became pregnant. A child created out of that, how can it be loved?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  4. DaedalusHelios

    DaedalusHelios

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    Its a right. Just because you don't believe in doing it yourself doesn't mean you should take it away from others. What about rapists that just want to get girls pregnant? Many serial rapists want to impregnate their victims to even further humiliate the victims.

    If you make it illegal the rich will just fly to a country where its legal to get it done like rich women did in the US before it was legal here. Its very classist and insensitive to take rights like this away.
     
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  5. Steevo

    Steevo

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    Abortion is wrong for me from a moral standpoint due to it being life. Mebey not a good life for it, mebey it will be the next genius. But it is life from the time of conception, not after XX number of weeks.

    Preemies are still a human, and deserve life and or a shot at life. I believe we owe them the best chance we can give and after that it is all chance out of our hands.


    Should abortion be done in the face of rape or other sexual crimes? No, we are all victims of crimes in society, and killing another human and removing the chances they have at happiness is not going to change what happened.


    Here in the US they perform partial birth abortions, and after watching a video of how it is performed I threw up. I can watch many other things, but that was terrible and should never be done. If you really don't want the child you shouldn't be fucking. It is worse to me that a recent study reveals that many high earning households use abortion or abortive actions as a form of birth control.
     
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  6. Steevo

    Steevo

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    http:/rces/pictures.html


    What if this were you? Do you feel your parents would have the right to take your life then or now?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2008
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  7. niko084

    niko084

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    I'm gray level on this one, I don't like it myself, but don't feel I have the right to vote to take away someone elses rights.

    Putting a limit on the time before you get one makes the most sense to me.

    PS- I think this thread is going to get locked quickly....
     
  8. DaedalusHelios

    DaedalusHelios

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    So you believe that every sperm is sacred?

    All sugery should make you throw up since you are not a surgeon.:laugh:

    Colon surgery looks gross but should we outlaw that. :wtf:

    I believe its not a life, until it leaves the womb. :)

    Lets hope you wouldn't wanna bomb abortion clinics like the "right to life'rs" do. :ohwell:

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm ~ A religious website on clinic bombings

    http://www.msnbc.com/modules/clinics/ ~MSNBC Source on clinic bombings

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/22878.php ~Source on Eric Rudolph

    http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/51353/ ~Source and pictures related to clinic bombing that were encouraged by Right wing hate speech

    And to say "they shouldn't be fucking", proves that you are out of touch with reality. People will have sex no matter what. When did you lose your virginity? :laugh:
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2008
  9. KieranD

    KieranD

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    i get how you think it is okay in the instance of rape and i get how mentally ill people live terrible lives but you cant tell if a child is mentally ill if they are only a baby, as for the rape thing well you are talking about a small percentage of people, i would take that by each individual.

    i never said once to make it illegal i was just saying that i dont agree with it

    people who have sex should know they might get pregnant and have to live with the consequences

    as for rape i think that they should really either keep the child or give it up for abortion a person should be killed for its circumstances of conception

    a lot of rape victims keep the baby

    i wouldn't force anyone to be pregnant but id get counselling and support in place
     
  10. KieranD

    KieranD

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    No no dont lock the thread no one answered the other question i asked should people judge someone's quality of life and should we try to keep alive premature babies?

    I dont feel that we should be saying he should die because he is disabled or might have future difficulties.
     
  11. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    abortion as a form of contraceptive is wrong, in response to an unplanned pregnancy is wrong, and I don't cite any religious arguments, it's strictly a moral thing. If one wants to be an adult, act effing responsibly.

    if the child will be premature, again, I feel is wrong as well - there have been numerous instances of premature infants that survive to lead 100% healthy lives


    but, where I do feel it has a purpose is when it comes to 1) endangering the mother's life - if a situation places the mother at a near full risk of death, and with no chance of the child surviving either (which is normally the case), then I feel that abortion would be acceptable; 2) if the pregnancy is from rape - sorry to say it, but I couldn't imagine how messed up I, or anyone else would be, if at some point far into their lives they learn that they were conceived by rape, and the emotional distress it would cause them, and angst towards both mother and father. No one should have to endure such emotional burdens.
     
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  12. KieranD

    KieranD

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    Every sperm isnt sacred thats impossible, anyway only one sperm will join with the egg or in the instance you might get 2 sperm in one egg or stuff like that but really millions of sperm die anyway how can they all be sacred?

    I want to know why you think it isnt a life untill its born? I mean its living it has functions its just inside someone else.
     
  13. Steevo

    Steevo

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    I don't believe every sperm is sacred, but nice monty python reference :laugh:

    I will not bomb a clinic, is that not the same thing (taking life) that the nutjobs outside protesting are trying to avoid, thus makeing them hypocrites? Wackjobs if you ask me.


    Surgery, like watching my wife get a C-section was cool, gutting a animal while hunting etc... those don't bother me, but partially pulling a human capable of living out, breaking its skull and vacuming out its brains, then pushing it back in, breaking off apendages, and then breaking the torso into pieces....... well, yes the thought makes me a bit queasy still just mentioning it.


    Your belief is yours, I didn't make fun, or call you a nutjob for your take on the subject. Please show the same respect for others in this thread. :toast:
     
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  14. Steevo

    Steevo

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    Please see Monthy Python's Meaning of Life.


    And if you find the fish, call it out.
     
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  15. DaedalusHelios

    DaedalusHelios

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    Its still part of the woman and her metabolism. I still see it as one person. To say it could be the worlds next genius is rediculous. I could say me choosing not to have a child could rob the world of the next genius. But its such a long shot I cannot say it with a straight face.:D

    PS. Steevo, I didn't call you a Nutjob. Where did you get that? :laugh:
     
  16. Steevo

    Steevo

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    Your choice, my son already knows his ABC's and talks in 2 and 3 syllable words and forms sentances more suited to a 3 or 4 year old, he is working on better pronunciation. He is 2. He knows numbers and is already disassembling and reassembling toys for 5 and 6 year old children, knows a couple simple songs on his keyboard and can use the phone for smple things like 911 and what to say for simple conversation.


    Who is to say that he will not continue on at the same rate of learning?
     
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  17. DaedalusHelios

    DaedalusHelios

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    Everybody believes their kid is a genius.;) There is a saying about it, I just can't remember it.

    Don't you think thats a bit off topic? :laugh:
     
  18. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

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    I think abortion is a good thing, but I'm not for late abortions like they do in Texas 6months....

    I only believe it should be done at the very first stages when miscarriages happen all the time. At that point and time I don't believe the child is self aware and still not fully alive.

    Face it not everyone should be a parent, and there are plenty of kids to adopt now that never will get adopted.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2008
  19. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    valid point as well - but I don't forsee the US starting to adopt population control measures; our oligarchy wouldn't permit it.
     
  20. vampyres New Member

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    Normal abortions are no different then a miscarriage. Since 10 to 25 Percent of all recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage if we want to cross those lines shouldn't we investigate each one for criminal negligence. Since miscarriages occur in the same time period that most abortions do, Most abortions are done in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, and Most miscarriages occur during the first 13 weeks of pregnancy. You could logically if given these crazy ideas hold people liable for miscarrying.

    Oh and FYI I am for the choice of abortion, since we are all pro-choice and we are all pro-life (well unless we are suicidal or homicidal) I am pro euthanasia to, sorry, having a 19 year old niece who with less mental capacity then a 1 year old, permanently institutionalized, I can say in my honest opinion some life isn't worth saving. Funny we can be more humane to our dogs then we can to our loved ones. Already told my family if I am ever a vegetable they better give me a swift lead injection and drop my butt in a hole, otherwise I might come out just to kick there asses for eternity.

    And for the Pollyannas that think all these "saved" babies are going to live a happy life, or even have a chance. Open your eyes and read a news paper, even foster care and adoption doesn't gaurentee it. Life isn't pretty flowers and unicorns, there are some real nasty characters in this world, and some of them pass themselves off day after day as caring people. We have children waiting to be adopted now perhaps being abused by these caring foster parents, some wind up in prison, some dead. This is the happy life they might get, flip a coin turn, them to the fates if thats your will just don't expect me to agree its a moral or humane ideal. I place more value on existing life, and even then its a matter of quality vs quantity.
     
  21. Thermopylae_480

    Thermopylae_480 New Member

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    What a can of worms. This thread will bring out the wacko in people like nothing else. Anyone want to join a poll on how many infractions are given out when this thread hits the fan?
     
  22. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    A fetus is a life form, a living thing inside another living thing. That's how mammals reproduce. What are you, Koopa from Super Mario Bros.? A fertilized egg is a living thing. :laugh: jk

    In the process of exhibiting the power of 'freedom and choice', people portray the exact opposite: immaturity and misuse of freedom. Yes, I call it immature because proper methods of contraception aren't followed, babies are conceived and killed.

    I'm going to sound hypocrite but let's assume what's done is done, a woman is pregnant, abortion is imminent, what to do? Abort ASAP, why take it to an advance stage abortion (which is unsafe for the mother)? If a girl is raped, and supposed to be aborted, YTH would the abortion take place in the advanced stage (late abortion)? I'm not against abortion but against late-abortion because you're putting the mother at risk, killing a fetus (that resembles human more than a zygote or embryo (but hey, they're 'living beings' too).

    As for the whole "premature babies grow up retarded" argument, I'm a premature born. All my RAMs pass memtest.
     
  23. panchoman

    panchoman Sold my stars!

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    for abortion, i think theres a limit.. babes too sick and have a very low chance of living should be aborted, same for prematures, if the premature hardly has a chance to live, then theres a lot of medical care and money wasted. babies that are really way too old shouldn't be aborted and premature babies that have a high chance of living should be kept. also victims of rape should be able to get an early abortion..
     
  24. Thermopylae_480

    Thermopylae_480 New Member

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    Why don't we institute a global eugenics program? Most of us probably won't make the cut. Where do you draw the line?
     
  25. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    and that's the thing - there can never really be a boundary

    but, at the same time, the global population is growing at an astounding rate; and on top of that, fertility treatments are on the rise as well.




    Just a thought, but if you're naturally incapable of having children - adopt. Really, there's nothing wrong with that! There are numerous children out there in need of a home.
     

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