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Premature Babies and Abortion

Discussion in 'General Nonsense' started by KieranD, May 28, 2008.

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  1. magibeg

    magibeg

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    On a side note with the whole coat hanger and drano comment. Thats the work of people who are trying to perform their own abortions and is dangerous for everyone. So if they're going to do things like that to themselves why not at least provide the facilities to protect everyone.
     
  2. Steevo

    Steevo

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    It is merely how the gene pool cleans itself.
     
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  3. magibeg

    magibeg

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    Haha kinda like the darwin awards?

    Only problem is this method can kill the mother AND the baby. Thus the lesser of 2 evils would be to do it at a facility.
     
  4. farlex85

    farlex85 New Member

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    No its not, only bitterness or callousness would account for such thoughts. Abortion, contraceptives, life, death, these are not trite matters, yet they are commonplace for many. When in doubt, one must embrace acceptance, its no use fighting the inevitable.........
     
  5. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    but . . . you have to admit that humans have been able to adeptly circumvent natural selection - even moreso within the last couple hundred years. The only real way we as a species have of weeding out the meek anymore is by people's own stupidity.


    Whether I view something as wrong or not will not stop another from performing whatever act they so choose . . . but, if they are going about something without professional assistance, and they fully understand the risks involved with their choice, then I cannot share any sympathy for whatever calamity falls upon them.
     
  6. farlex85

    farlex85 New Member

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    No, natural selection just means those most able to reproduce will have their traits spread to the population, which is of course still the case w/ humans. Unfortunately, being uneducated and poor is a big predictor of reproduction, so you could say perhaps we're headed in the wrong direction (have you ever seen Idiocracy, great).
     
  7. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    Well, natural selection is really survival of the fittest - but natural selection as is applied to the animal kingdom doesn't really apply to humans.

    But, being undereducated and/or poor does have a small determining factor in populations - but, we're also starting to see more and more people nowadays who are very highly educated, but don't have any common sense (which, IMO, still makes them stoopid).

    Survival is common sense - acting in ways that threaten ones survival can be considered lacking common sense or . . . stoopid.

    And that's the reason why I can't feel any sympathy towards those who act stoopid.
     
  8. farlex85

    farlex85 New Member

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    No thats a common misconception, all natural selection means is the organisms that reproduce the most will pass their traits on and thus influence the development of the species. Traditionally and simply, the fittest organisms survive and are able to reproduce, thus leading to the phrase "survival of the fittest," although that is not what natural selection really is. So you could say that humans have a bit of a different form of natural selection, being that most can survive at least long enough to reproduce.

    And yeah, look at less developing countries and developed countries. Places where education and wealth is high, population growth is very low or stagnant. In less developed countries, where those two factors are low, population growth is very high.

    Survival for you is common sense. I don't presume to know much about you, but I do presume you were not born in a starving African village w/ scarcely the recources to survive. Sympathy is impossible without empathy (and I make that as simply an example, you never know whats going on behind the curtain. What may seem like a lack of common sense to you may seem like dispair and a lack of choice for another).
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  9. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    well, in light of those points (good points, BTW), I would have to say common sense within an indutrialized society, where survival isn't a daily thought as it is elsewhere.

    But, I was trying to compare how even those of higher education can still do things that are just . . . stoopid.



    I mean - I look at what is going on in africa, the middle east, and other parts of the world with a different view. I can't fault those people for what they do and go through, they do face a serious hardship that I don't think any of us here could ever really grasp the extent of . . . but, I do fault their governments for what they allow to happen to their people . . .
     
  10. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    I don't think I've ever seen you swear on these forums before. The batshit comment got a chuckle out of me. lol. Anyway, sorry about the OT post. I'm done now.
     
  11. vampyres New Member

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    Well then, if thats ok, how about she aborts, botches then shoots the father. After all she isn't the only one responsible for this situation. I am hearing that way to much, talking about responsibility and putting all on the woman, because that is what forcing pregnancy is. There is no one even forcing a man to stick around let alone deal with the whole slew of complications a pregnancy can cause for a woman. Ranging from the minor but miserable morning sickness, to the more serious like gestational diabetes, pre eclampsia and preterm labor resulting in extended bed rest.

    I have an even better idea, how about we implant unwanted pregnancies in anti abortion men. :laugh:
     
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  12. hat

    hat Enthusiast

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    :roll: :roll:
     
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  13. DaedalusHelios

    DaedalusHelios

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    I am technically middle class as far as tax brackets go, but your hatred of the poor is rediculous. :shadedshu

    I hope one day you become disabled or in financial ruin so you understand their pain. Shame on you for your hatred of humanity. Not all poor people are there out of choice. You are probably some priviledged little white kid that hates the people below him just like "Daddy" always did. :ohwell:

    The people working jobs that aren't going anywhere, also serve a purpose. Who else would work at a 24 hour McD's just to feed obese slobs their trans fats for the day. They work those jobs because they love to hear @sshole5 bitch about how their food was cold right? (I assume people complain about that but I have never worked in fast food so maybe somebody here has and would like to offer input ;))

    I wouldn't complain about the shoes I was wearing, if I was walking on the backs of the poor. :shadedshu

    BTW: Social Security is drying up because politicians pull from it to pay off the national debt and pay for "pet projects". The vast majority of this crap came from republican presidents, so thank them for that. Social programs don't pull from Social Security like Washington does. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
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  14. vampyres New Member

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    I have worked many minimum wage jobs including fast food in my years. (College degree and all, damn art history major, it sounded like a good idea when I did it.) And no I didn't work there because I wanted to, I worked there because no one wants art history majors where I live.

    So you don't even have to be stupid or uneducated to be stuck in a minimum wage job. Just have been a typical young adult and think something sounds like a good plan, breeze through it then never go anywhere with it. Spent a good part of my college life as an 4.0 student only to go out in the real world and not find any jobs.

    This is why I don't work right now and my husband does, his job can pay for gas, me having one costs me more in gas then I would make (even more so considering where I live requires a 4X4 to get in and out during the winter, and I live 62 miles from town)

    He can complain? Right now we pay tons of taxes on our check and owe at the end of the year, plus I pay property tax.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  15. Triprift

    Triprift

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    I coudnt agree more man the majority of ppl living in poverty are not there by chioce and honestly who in there right mind would want to. Secondly this presumtion about premature births leading to childeren with disabilities is rediculous. So what if a child with a disability is born these ppl have the same hopes and dreams as everyone else. Two of the most important ppl in my life my brother and my gf both have mental illness and deserve all the love and support they get. For the record i support abortion as i feel its a basic human right wich no one has the right to take away.
     
  16. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

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    IMO there needs to be a welfare system, to protect people from absolute despair and destitution. I would rather my taxes when that way that to over paid politicians or state-jobs and their LUDICROUS expense allowances or benefits.

    The welfare system should provide a backup. And it should be tiered in such a way that more help is available to those that need a bit extra (e.g. kids). But in NO WAY should these extras make someone better off. It should only cover 90% of the extra cost.

    I dont know about the US, but in Europe, there is a welfare trap. Welfare is too generous. Yet getting a job and getting taxed leaves you with so little extra, that people stay on welfare and are not motivated.

    There are also people who "game the system". And that needs to be stopped.
     
  17. DaedalusHelios

    DaedalusHelios

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    The US has a three year limit on Welfare. Your whole life you may just have three years of Welfare total.;)

    Europe is different I guess. Clinton actually set the three year limit.;)
     
  18. KieranD

    KieranD

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    in the uk at least we have unemployment benefit and another kind of benefit called somthing i have forget but it is for those who cannot actually work for various reasons, unemployment benefit is meant to be for the interm and isnt a full time thing its only for people who will be out of work for various reasons for a short time or those that cannot find work ect

    incapacity benefit YES I REMEMBERED its for those that care for someone full time and cannot work those that cannot physically work

    If you have unemployment benefit it changes to incapacity benefits, apparently loads of people in this benefit can actually work and the conservatives want to find out who needs it and who can actually work

    by their system if you dont work but can you get reduced benefit after a period of time

    3 years of welfare is stupid because an individuals life will be different from another's and we should look at each person individually, some might have good reasons to have benefits at different stages of their life

    there are more abortion clinics in africa than hospitals, for free in some african nations you can get a free abortion but at the same time you cant even get basic medicines or treatment or even water

    the whole idea was that abortion was there to prevent backstreet abortions but its ended up being a form of contraceptive and has deviated way from the original purpose

    i think that using the backstreet argument isnt valid any more because you can practically get an abortion if you wanted to on demand
     
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  19. vampyres New Member

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    Thats entirely dependent on where your talking about. You can not get an abortion where I live, no one preforms them. Such is true with many rural counties in the USA. Takes a 4 hour trip for abortion services and out of pocket payment, since Medicaid pays for prenatal care but not abortions.

    They have had back ally abortions with low income people not in some third world country, but right here in my own county and right here in my own country as well. We wonder what possessed those two kids to hide a pregnancy to run the infant over, I don't. This is what possessed those kids, strict catholic anti abortion anti birth control parents and parental consent laws with lack of available options. This was a major headline in my town, and of major debate. Not justifying what they did, but seriously, we give people few options and scared people do stupid things.
     
  20. russianboy New Member

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    So all the people that are against abortion, I got a little statment here to make.

    A fly, mouse, stray animal etc. is a living, and functioning thing. We kill them with little thought, so how is it a "moral" issue that we kill tissue? As somebody here stated, it is like removing an organ (and an unneeded one at that).

    We eat meat, meat comes from living functioning animals. Why does the cow get killed with no protest, and flushing out some tissue suddenly become "the big debate"?
     
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  21. hat

    hat Enthusiast

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    because flys and mice are pests. it's fine to kill pests. stray animal... I would probably take it in if I could, and it didn't have rabies or something.

    animals were put here to be used by us, either as food or for work. pulling whatever that tool is called that loosens up the dirt, etc

    the "tissue" is a human life.
     
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  22. Noobcomputermaker

    Noobcomputermaker New Member

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    I believe it is right if you were raped, also if they did not have abortion, teen's who become pregnant may become suicidal think their life is ruined, and might try a self abortion which can get nasty, like whipping up an egg yolk!
     
  23. magibeg

    magibeg

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    Uh since when were animals made for the benefit of us? We all share our common ancestor and what not. It just so happened we developed extremely potent brains and were able to dominate/domesticate the other animals. They are no different than us at all. We're not more special than the common flea. Arguably fleas have done less harm to the planet than the 'human plague' has.
     
  24. ShadowFold

    ShadowFold New Member

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    If someone wants an abortion, let them get an abortion. Its their choice, who cares. Live YOUR life.
     
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  25. JC316

    JC316 Knows what makes you tick

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    I think that you hit the nail on the head Shadow, people want to run other peoples lives. Why should anyone CARE if someone else wants an abortion? It's not your body, or life. If your religious, it's not your soul on the line, so who gives a crap?

    Thats the problem though, most humans have a real power complex, they want power over others and will do anything to get it.

    Side note:
    Steevo, you really are on a high horse and need to be brought down a notch. I wouldn't wish a disease on anyone, but I would like to see your viewpoint if you could spend a week in someones shoes that did and couldn't afford the bills, it's not nice.
     
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