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Pro-ATI Atitude Biased?

Discussion in 'General Nonsense' started by Weer, Jun 20, 2008.

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  1. ChromeDome

    ChromeDome New Member

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    its about $150-$200 too pricey imo. when you consider what you're getting and what is already available for less. no reason whatsoever to buy this card now while at a premium. newegg has them for $650

    thats outrageous considering games are well playable on much cheaper hardware and the upgrade is just....mediocre at best.

    so consider someone spent over $300 for a 9800GTX some months ago and will now spend $700 after tax upgrading to this thing. thats over $1000 for this card, basically. because your GTX or GTXX2 prolly does the trick great. so what is the extra $650 for?

    to line the pockets of big wigs with the money of suckers, thats what

    nah but seriously, its a good card. but if you have something nice already its not that good

    i can play games without it :pimp:

    for now....


    EDIT: first newegg user reviews are coming in
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2008
  2. jamupnorth

    jamupnorth New Member

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    Yup exactly bud !
     
  3. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    Ok, I'm gonna comment before the lock. lol

    No, ATI fans shouldn't be rubbing it in the NV fans' faces.

    But, that said, you cannot deny the fact that performance from crossfired 4850's are impressive. The fact that 2 of them come in under the pricepoint of 1 280GTX is very significant. Most people don't care about architectural differences. Most people just care about how much performance they get for their money. In this case, 2x4850 has the leg up on the 280GTX.

    There are exceptions, of course. Such as if you don't own a Crossfire board. But then again, you can likely buy 2 4850's AND a Xfire mobo, and STILL pay less than just one 280GTX.

    It all depends on your current situation. If you already have a Crossfire board, 2x4850 just plain makes more sense from a financial standpoint.
     
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  4. JrRacinFan

    JrRacinFan Served 5k and counting ...

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    Those darn fanboy's. But I kinda disagree here with you w1zz. What happens if I dont backup my gamesave and do a reinstall? :p
     
  5. DaC

    DaC

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    Well... ATI was behind Nvidia for some time, now it made to catch up... And did more than this... offered a really nice product with a great price and fixed faults of previous generation.....
    I've never bought an ATI card, always Nvidia.
    But I'll for sure move to ATI this time, it's my way to say "Good Job, here's your payment".
    We need both company doing well on sales, I'm proud to say it's ATI time now....
    I hope I can say that from S3 also on a near future....

    Oh... I already had: geforce 2 GTS..... Geforce 6800XT..... 7800GT... 7950GT.... 8800GS...... so I'm not a undercover ATI fan boy, neither Nvidia....
     
  6. kylew

    kylew New Member

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    As weird as it may sound, ATi and NV fanboys aren't really defined by their allegiance to a certain graphics brand.

    There's a difference of attitudes when it comes to them. This is all my opinion of course, but my impression is that the average NV fanboy is arrogant about their fanboyism.

    They'll convince themselves and others that ATi cards are rubish, because 'they just are', or their drivers are rubbish, or every other NV card is faster.

    Where as ATi fanboys are generally fed up of how NV is as a company, how they deal with their customers, their arrogance, especially with the prices of their cards, and their general attitude of 'throw money at it til it goes away' like with what happened with Assassin's Creed and 3D Mark Vantage, to name a few things.

    I don't particularly like NV as a company partly due to the reasons I listed above, I find ATi much more appealing and especially now with their release of 4800s. It's completely against logic to even try to compare the 4850s to the GTX 280 in the way some people currently have done.

    All the nonsense about how it takes 2 GPUs to beat NV's single, that is a load of rubbish really. It doesn't matter how it's achieved, but ATi have managed to have a graphics solution that beat's NV's top end card, for a third of the cost. 2 GPUs versus one doesn't come in to thing. It's a graphics solution that most people are looking for, and what makes it worse is that SLIed 8800GTs costs much less than a GTX280, yet gives it a very good run for its money and has a higher price to performance ratio.

    It would be different if ATi were selling the 4850 at say $500, which would put it in the same price field as the GTX280, then I would say it's a failure. They've used a much more cost effective and efficient method of beating NV's top card, with their cheap, bottom of mid-range cards.

    This is where the NV arrogance plays a big part. Because they have a single GPU solution, they think it's good and fair to sell their cards at heavily inflated prices, which gives them an air of 'superiority' regardless of their performance, add that to their paying off of devs, and you've got a brand that a lot of people don't want to support based on principal of being over priced, and bad service.
     
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  7. mullered07

    mullered07 New Member

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    sorry wheres the sense in that is crysis like the holy grail of all computer games ? yea it looks nice but the gameplay didnt live up to the hype for a lot of people, its not the be-all-end-all


    inferior? what has nvidia got in the arsenal to compete with amd at the 4850 pricepoint? nothing. how is that inferior?, your blatantly making comments that have no backing and look to me to be biased
     
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  8. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    Too Bad PowerVR couldnt make it into market if it gets sponsored by the Likes of Panasonic/NEC
     
  9. Darknova

    Darknova

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    1x GTX 280 - £500

    2x 4850 - £260.

    'nuff said.
     
  10. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    The Other Point being is that Nv Fans Shouldnt be trying to Rub it in ATi Fan's Faces
    either

     
  11. Haytch

    Haytch New Member

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    Ive always found ATi cards to be a cheaper solution. Still capable of playing the games of the moment to a very satisfactory level, with a more robust colour quality, untill the next series of games/gfx cards.

    BTW, is it just me or have game releases slowed down ?

    Anyways, Nvidia charge way too much for their products and that pisses me off.
    The fact still remains that Nvidia currently has the most powerfull single gpu gfx card available to us today. The way of the future is ATi's multi-gpu technology, which im sure Nvidia will muster within the next series or two.
    Im proud of AMD/ATi for pulling it together so well after the merge and their many variables since then, and im sure they are proud of where they are today too. I hope they continue to produce quality products and advance their technology, interacting gpu and cpu more efficiently and more productive.

    I feel as thou there are three types of customers here;
    1. The Enthusiest Gamer - ( Doesnt give a crap about $$$, only the best will do. )
    2. The Gamer - ( Whilst saving money, takes a hit @ performance level. Using self justification at any chance possible. <--< )
    3. The Non-Gamer.

    Im a combination of 1 & 2. I sorta have to have the high end parts, but im not going to go out and buy 2 high end systems, because theres only one of me, so my second pc is more price vs performance related.

    One thing im absolutely sure of is that Sli and Xfire is a stupid idea. It was ok back in the day, but its something that should be abolished. Both Nvidia and AMD/ATi should concentrate on the multi-gpu concept, and stop wasting slots on the motherboard.

    Please dont recommend me an external USB 4850 solution.
     
  12. Darknova

    Darknova

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    Also, can I just point out, that for the same price as a SINGLE GTX280, I can go out and buy 2x 4850s, an E8400 and a decent P45 based motherboard, or a P35 and RAM.
     
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  13. DarkMatter New Member

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    OMG. Forget about the reasons. Crysis is the only game where you really need a more powerful card than a 8800 GT or HD3870 if you don't want to go crazy with the AA. Note that I said NEED, and what the consecuencies of what that word means.
     
  14. PedoBearApproves

    PedoBearApproves New Member

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    you made your "Argument" invalid by using crysis as the basis, its CRAP, they even gave up patching it, crysis is horribly un-optimized, its effectivly a tech demo for the new cryengine, thats it.

    wana see some 10.1 benches under stuff like assassins creede!!!
     
  15. Darknova

    Darknova

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    Let's see shall we...

    3870 running Crysis at mostly high at 1680x1050 at 30+fps

    Runs at 1280x1024 at high.

    ATi has finally done well, but you're too short-sighted to see that 2 cheaper cards outperform one ludicrously expensive card.

    you don't know s*** my friend.
     
  16. ChromeDome

    ChromeDome New Member

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    meh....the reason i never went with ATI is just because when i first got into computers around 4 years ago i had bad luck with a couple of their cards / drivers. so i popped in an nvidia card (FX5200 ftl) and it worked. so i figured 'hey this works.' may as well keep it

    and since the choices are pretty much between two companies for gaming graphics, really no need to flip flop back and forth i figure. i just stuck with what worked best at the time

    since my upgrades have always been modest (FX5200 to 6600GT to 8600GT to 8800GS) i've just never looked elsewhere. inexpensive entry level mid range cards are usually where i park my graphics

    however...since coming over to AMD (i had a p4 before) and since i am a fan of what they do, ATI seems a bit more attractive now. i'm kinda behind on what they do, but i know the cards are somewhat different then nvidia's offering. but hey, they play games, too. what do you know....

    what i find most interesting are these new 4000 series cards. with the negative press nvidia gets these days for price fixing (of sorts), selling over priced "next gen" cards that just marginally outperform the last gen, and rebadging cards to sell at an inflated price, what AMD is doing iwth ATI is beginning to sound...attractive

    i mean what do we have here? a new card from ATI that outperforms an 8800GT and GTX at $200? and of course the prices will only drop. and another (4870) on the way? this has already forced nvidia to drop prices steeply on some of its offerings, and its bound to just get more competitive

    the way i upgrade cards the 4850 or 4870 is looking very good as a year end purchase. or beginning of next year. idk what nvidia might offer in the midrange segment to counter, but my AMD machine might be crying out for its little ATI stablemate b4 i even know it.

    i get ideas....oh yes i do :)
     
  17. candle_86 New Member

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    there is a valid point though to properly use the 4850 in xfire you need dual PCIe 2.0 x16 slots thats a 200 dollar board untop of 400 for a graphics card so thats 600 bucks. GTX280 needs a PCIe x16 slot to be used properly to its full extent any 90% of users have that. So to go to xfire if you havn't got the board already costs about the same in retrospect as a single card. With that in mind for someone like myself with an aging Nforce4 board id be more likly to get a better single card than a pair for my price preformance. You have to look at the big picture here actully, is it really cheaper and less hassle to adopt dual 4850's or is it most cost effecitve to adopt a single card. Take into note something else the high temps of the 4850 compared to GTX280, two of those in xfire also means spening more money for better case and component cooling, do you want two cards making 90c right below your CPU that gets the air from the intakes generally in the bottom of your case, so using 90c air to cool that CPU. To be honest I really wouldn't do that myself some might. IT comes down to individual price/preformance/headache in all honesty. In a perfect world every mobo would have 4 full PCIe 2.0 slots that can do SLI and xfire but this isnt a prefect world and for this you have to base it on overall cost to adopt
     
  18. Darknova

    Darknova

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    That's a good point actually candle.

    However, it's still better value for the 4850s. I'm talking purely on value basis here, I understand that not everyone knows how to set up CFX, or wants to change motherboards etc.

    Going on the prices over here, £180 for an X48, £260 for 2 4850s (£440). Assuming you have the memory from your old board. You then have £60 to buy better cooling for the 4850s, 2x Accelero S1s + turbo module is just over £55 all in. So that's £495

    The GTX 280 is £500 over here. So for £5 less you not only get better graphics performance, a brand new motherboard and cooling for the GPUs.

    So going on VALUE terms on, the 4850 IMO, is the better option.

    But the hassle, well, guess you need to enjoy stripping out your PC :p
     
  19. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I still don't get why people get emotionally attached to a company that makes things with which you watch 3D graphics.....such a small part of an average life. There's competition in everything....milk, candy, beer, condom, hospitals.... why not be more lever-headed and choose things only based on logic, commonsense and plain numbers.
     
  20. JrRacinFan

    JrRacinFan Served 5k and counting ...

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    No offense and no discredit towards you BTA, but if there was common sense in the world, their would only be one company for video cards, one company for processors, one company for ram, etc.. See where I am going at with this bro?

    PS: In other words, it's a f***ed up world we live in. :p

    **DISCLAIMER: I am not a fanboy, if you feel as though I said anything "fanboy-ish" in the past or present please PM me.**
     
  21. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    This is why we've not colonised Mars yet. Sad reality.

    When we choose Brand A milk over Brand B because (it gives more cream/it's more toned), we have a logic driving us to our choice. But with video cards, when both brands give you the same thing (3D Graphics), and one gives you better performance for what you pay, it's unwise not to choose it.
     
  22. JrRacinFan

    JrRacinFan Served 5k and counting ...

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    Exactly.
     
  23. Katanai

    Katanai

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    Yeah that's what I'm saying. People go crazy over this. I for one think that in a month or two the market will be just right. The 8 series Ultra was actually more expensive than the 280 when it came out still no one complained. Prices will only go down. I am thinking about building a Nehalem system with a 260 or if the 4870 is better than that I will buy the ATI card. There's no point in buying a name as long as you don't actually see those products. In 90% of setups the card just sits there in the computer and you don't see it, you do see the performance tho.
     
  24. ShogoXT

    ShogoXT New Member

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    Its true, us ATI fanbois have been waiting for a chance to argue with the NVidia fanbois again on a equal basis. At the same time though, you cant deny ATI is looking good this round.

    Also @ W1z : Dude when I used to work at Dell, we would play the Crysis demo when we were bored. I would run the game on full difficulty then melee EVERYTHING without cloak. Doing it like that adds new fun and makes you feel like the flash!
     
  25. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Add to that, if we think...If I stick to NVidia (because they always give me sweet deals (like PedoBear + candy + truck)), it will kill ATI....true. Competition has to exist, agree, but it does not become a 'moral responsibility' of mine to buy ATI stuff just to keep it alive (if their deals aren't as sweet as NVidia's), it's ATI's head-ache to work on something that will lure me into buying their stuff and not my responsibility to make sure they stay afloat while they make such a 'sweet deal'. I'm just stating an example, you can swap/insert any brand name you want, the logic remains the same.
     

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