1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

QuakeCon 2012 Panel Videos And Full Guide

Discussion in 'Games' started by RuskiSnajper, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    [​IMG]


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Videos:

    Keynote: QuakeCon 2012 - John Carmack Keynote - YouTube
    Game of Making Games: QuakeCon 2012 - The Game of Making Games - YouTube
    Celebrating Id Modding: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
    Virtual Insanity: QuakeCon 2012 Panel - Virtual Insanity - YouTube


    Official Site: http://www.quakecon.org/
    Detailed Information about the Event at QuakeCon Forums Click Here




    Schedules: Panels & Speaches:

    [​IMG]




    Already Known Doom 4 Info:
    • Doom 4 Super Script - A new custom programming language used for scripting game code (C++ derivative)
    • Geometry Virtualization* - The way how "megatextures" work in Rage, Doom4 will also support geometry virtualization or "megageometry ?", which Rage doesn't.
    • New Graphics Engine - Doom 4 will have a re-written (new) graphics engine of that used in Rage; Carmack adds "Doom 4 will have 3 times as much graphics and visual fidelity"
    • Hardware Virtual Texturing (PRT) - AMD/ATI Radeon HD7970 has a limit on these at 32k, a workaround is needed. Doom 4 will support it.
    • Dedicated Servers - Aggressive Multiplayer Component (dedicated internal MP team at studio)
    * = not really sure if that was for Doom4 or IDTech6




    John Carmack Keynote 2012 - Video Guide:

    Time markers are just before the reference happens, at the beginning of a related sentence, for convenience.

    • MINUTE MARKER | REFERENCE
    • 2:00 | Acknowledging the bad ending in Rage
    • 2:20 | Apology for badly handled Rage PC release (AMD Driver issue:shadedshu)
    • 4:28 | Doom 3 BFG Performance comparrisons PC & Console
    • 7:06 | Doom 3 is more GPU heavy than Rage
    • 10:53 | Doom 3 BFG was not pulled into idTech5 b/c possible unwanted subtle gameplay changes and issues, that could ruin orig. feel of it.
    • 11:50 | Doom 3 BFG has a modernized codebase (read "super-optimized", for today's consoles and PC hardware)
    • 12:00 | Wishes to deploy D3BFG on other platforms such as WiiU, Vita ..etc - Status: TBD due to no time/resources yet.
    • 12:40 | Rage 2 will be designed by fixing broken parts and improving stuff that is great. No major compromise. Rage 2 delayed after Doom4 (proper way!:rockout:)
    • 13:24 | Doom4 silence extended due to "bethesda mode" - Will not start marketing too early. (probably b/c to avoid not being able to fullfill promises and possible changes in plans like Rage had, ex.; mod tools, DLC, super quality texture packs)
    • 13:39 | Rage marketing spanned across many years made public think it's openworld. It was never meant to be an RPG experience.
    • 14:13 | Applause - Everybody knows what Doom is.
    • 14:47 | He feels a bit awkward being the company figurehead because he's a technical guy and doesn't work directly with all the details that go into game design that is having more and more role in today's gaming industry.
    • 16:55 | Rage game-world had impressive vistas, but it was a non-interactive shell - Marching orders to fix this for Rage 2
    • 17:19 | QuakeLive in-game marketing failed twice - subscribers helping, but still doesn't fully cover the costs of operating.
    • 17:45 | id Mobile on hold - all developers moved to Doom4 - wishes to get back to mobile in future.
    • 20:23 | Next major pipeline code change is Geometry Virtualization - not sure if in time for Doom4.
    • 24:30 | Internal arguments about post effects messing with all the effort that went into aligning all pixels and lighting properly.
    • 25:06 | Need to make games faster, iteration time important, huge undertaking from demo to production, took year.
    • 26:26 | Doom 3 BFG compiles faster - tools have been taken out to make it even faster.
    • 26:44-26:59 | Carmack's mouth gets confused over similar words and numbers (funny)
    • 27:04 | Doom 3 problem it was too dark, brightning things up + Carmack's wife about flashlight story.
    • 28:26 | Doom 3 was hard, BFG sprinkled a bit more weapon ammo around the game
    • 28:50 | played super mario 3 some years back, much harder than today's marios
    • 29:49 | He doesn't think about good old times - focuses on developing for new platforms and new input devices, progress.
    • 30:30 - 41:00 | Carmack still learning - Discusses about id programmers, how to work efficently with code, tricks, solving problems, managing codebase, internal office communication between programmers, game engines are more sophisticated than nasa code but their code is not as perfect.
    • 41:06 | Rage being treated as buggy just b/c drivers really hurt id's feelings. Rage had a very clean and vigorously analyzed codebase.
    • 42:49 | He regrets he can't work on mobile more - one project on hold. Discusses mobile industry quickly
    • 44:26 | Mac remains viable business platform. Discusses about PC platforms.
    • 46:13 | Linux favors that intel integrated GPUs getting better - intel supports opensource efforts, carmack wishes to optimize the opensource OGL drivers but doesn't have time yet.
    • 47:45 | Kudos to Valve for vision with steam.
    • 49:49 | Always mentions about cloud gaming when he sees Gabe. Further discussions about pros cons of cloud gaming vs console HDTV setups (latency stuff)
    • 50:54 | Discussion: Chasing latency, HMD, HDTV, Razer mouse ... etc
    • 54:36 | 48ms comment about VR: Takes less time to send signal overseas than it takes 2 feet in display industry - Applause
    • 56:00 | Rage has "weapon firing" delayed 1 frame after movement b/c enables parallel tasks ...etc
    • 59:45 | Begins talk about VR; Rift and his own stuff (sublist)
      • Started experimenting after shipping Rage
      • Mentions history, how it was in 90s
      • It wasn't possible back then, companies went bust.
      • VR industry didn't change much for over a decade since he last experienced it.
      • Started exploring why it was so bad - the reasons were huge latency and low FOV.
      • He built his own testbed initially (before knowing oculus' Palmer Luckey)
      • He had his office filled with all kinds of cables, ski-masks, optics, ..etc
      • One of his kits was Sony HMZ with a glued motion sensor.
    • 1:09:24 | VR: Toilet Paper Tubes
      • Further talk about Sony HMZ, comparing
      • Sony HMZ is not marketed as VR, but as a portable 3D TV without ghosting.
    • 1:12:23 | VR: Motion Sickness in VR - Shows example with how it's like with devkit Rift
      • Sony HMZ has 45 horizontal FOV - Barely acceptable for tests - not practical.
      • He made a toy project for his modded HMZ kit, made sure he got rid of any latency on his parts and link to PC.
      • First time it started getting interesting, but wasn't great.
      • Sony HMZ 48ms latency just because of firmware is a criminal shame.(OLEDs awesme, but not used to full potential)
    • 1:16:47 | Sony people are black holes to each other
      • Carmack is not fond of 3D TV tech, halves FPS, not good for gaming.
      • Talks about Displays / 3DTV / FPS / Ghosting ..etc
      • The good thing of 3D proponents in industry is the push for +120hz refresh rate.
      • PC Monitors with 3D can be set to 120hz in non-3D mode.
      • VR makes the difference between 60 and 120hz significantly more noticable, to everyone, not just hardcore gamers.
      • Talks about retinal tracking
      • He bought some super rare military-grade 10.000 dollar sensors to compare and test. (stuff that's used for jet fighter helmets)
      • Tried scanning his own eye very carefully setting the laser low, no focal point, he probably shouldn't done it alone
      • Mentions about posting VR updates on MTBS.com forums
      • When he first found out about Oculus, Palmer knew him and sent him a kit immediately, no questions asked.
      • Carmack was very impressed by the 90 FOV of Rift prototype when he first experienced it.
      • Goes on to explain the prototype ...etc
      • Fisheye distortion problem was easily solvable by software, using a shader, math wasn't that hard.
      • Experimented Rift on Rage, took a 16k X 16k chunk of a level for his testing.
      • 16000x16000 chunk is 1GB of uncompressed texture data for Rage
    • 1:47:37 | Would look great if we could ship 1 TB of Rage ...
      • Talks about Doom3 BFG on Rift (software stuff, implementation details, 120hz ..etc)
      • Display responsivness, compares LCDs, OLEDs, CRTs ...
      • Rift VR Demo at QC2012 had 40-50ms latency because they couldn't finish the latest devkit in time(so close)
      • 120hz is acceptable for now but not enough for true immersion.
      • Pre-Oculus Rift: Tried to track head with Microsoft Kinect, idea got killed very quickly b/c of huge latency
      • Windows Kinect it's a bit faster than on X360, still 70ms latency, useless
      • SixSense was neat but not for VR future
      • 3 Things yet to be done for Rift consumerization, absolute positionsing, latency, display resolutions, all solvable
      • Resolution and Upd.Rate (hz) are just a matter of getting the bored vendors to care about hz in small scale displays
      • Sending emails and kicking companies in the butt, doesn't cost anything, no big changes, possible with existing tech
      • Eventually we want Rift to be wireless in future - need more performance and video bandwidth, user comfort ...etc
      • Also Real-world environimental safety: outside tracking so you don't bump into desk, chair, doors ...etc
      • Trying to push Intel optical research ppl. to solve optical position tracking problem
      • Motion sensor drift correction solutions - compares with super expensive Armadillo sensors, explains
      • Still not ready to commercialize Rift - Egronomic issues, interaction and other small technicals need to be solved
      • 2:13:33 - Rift E3 Demo exploded in interest - exceeding expectations - initially it was planned to do only 100 kits
      • Carmack is worried a bit that it's going too fast, Rift still not ready, they want to make sure it's done right.
      • He said upfront to Palmer that press will report E3 wrongly as John Carmack's VR - and it did.
      • Most of E3 people told Carmack that this was the best thing on E3 ... after coming from all 3 console conferences.
      • Initially Rift was going to be a 500$ devkit but Oculus managed to get it down to 300$ - taking less profit.
      • Finished Rift will cost more than cellphones (smart?) from low-end to high-end.
      • This experimental kit is not for mainstream (kind of stuff they would whine about) but any bleeding edge enthusiast
      • ...-> could contribute without a chip fab in his back yard (mentions QuakeCon case mods crowd - "great example")
      • There are probably 5 companies in China by now that started preparing their own versions of Rift.
    • 2:20:49 | END VR - Twitter Answers Start
    • 2:21:04 | TW1: VR Anti-Aliasing - Pixels
    • 2:23:55 | TW2: Raytracing
    • 2:27:42 | TW3: OpenGL
    • 2:33:40 | TW4: WebGL (quakelive)
    • 2:42:19 | TW5: CPU Architectures
    • 2:47:19 | TW6: Windows 8 Adoption
    • 2:49:28 | TW7: io devices - Audio processing
    • 2:51:33 | TW8: Force Feedback
    • 2:53:37 | TW9: Display Resolution - Bandwidth
    • 2:57:01 | TW10: Armadillo Aerospace update
    • ------ | END Twitter Answers - QA Start
    • 3:00:54 | QA1: Network Streaming for Arbitrary Quality Downloads
      • (The asker was disappointed Rage wasn't a "300 gig" download from steam)
      • Carmack already experimented with it, works better than anyone would expect.
      • Planned, will hopefully get supported in future projects (D4)
    • 3:04:40 | QA2: Ultra Low-Latency standard for gaming devices (logo - certification)
      • Carmack kicked companies about wanting a HDMI "low-latency bit" in the bitstream that would tell the devices ..->
      • ..-> "please do not do any processing that involves buffering"
      • Says that display industry is sluggish, boring when it comes to adoption of improvements
      • Wishes to be like OpenGL where he could make custom extension that would get rid of latency.
      • Hopes this won't take a decade like virtual texturing in GPUs
    • 3:06:32 | QA3: Non-Poligonal Rendering
    • 3:08:47 | Next step for IDTech is developing Geometry Virtualization
    • 3:09:24 | QA4: Development process methods that ruin culture of videogame companies
    • 3:12:12 | QA5: Cross OS - Virtualization
    • 3:17:48 | QA6: Moving in VR - "Treadmill with handlebars"
    • 3:23:10 | QA7: WiiU GamePad "virtual reality"
      • (asker didn't know that miyamoto was talking about Panorama View, carmack talked about AR, avoided WiiU talk)
    • 3:23:10 | QA8: Post-Processing Effects in VR
      • Carmack: DOF is a bad idea in VR
      • Talks about how a lot of stuff needed to be disabled and weapon position adjusted, split, etc ...
    • 3:26:40 | QA9: Neural Interface Technology
    • 3:28:53 | QA10: Fan gives Carmack a T-Shirt
    • 3:29:14 | QA11: Pay-Per-GB Internet hurting Gaming?
    • 3:32:20 | QA12: Photorealistic graphics possible for gaming in 10 years ?

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Status:
      99% Done

      TODO:
      id modding panel: focus mod tools day 1 d4
    There are more details sorrounding each reference , for media reporting they should be checked in his keynote video to report accurately and in full detail properly.
    [​IMG]




    Fact Sheet:
    Driver Clusterbomb:
    • Rage engine IDTech5 uses OpenGL, AMD/ATI released the wrong OGL driver at Rage's release.
    • AMD OGL drivers we're not up to par with DirectX drivers for most other games even after months since release.
    • Every game requires specific driver optimizations, this could have happend to any game at any time. If there's an apology to do, it should be from AMD.




    Twitter:
    Id Software
    John Carmack

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Temporary Note:

    This thread will be periodically updated as videos and information surfaces as well as the guide to where the interesting stuff is in the video timeline for those who don't want to watch all of the ~5+ hours of content.
    The point of this thread being posted sooner is that anyone can save it to check back later, and it will gain more attention and catch those that aren't following this closely before we get the videos on, as well as those that won't notice about the event until it was all over, quite some guys from last year who lived in very close vicinity of the event location only realized about the event days after it was over.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
    TheHunter says thanks.
  2. happita

    happita

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,354 (0.93/day)
    Thanks Received:
    392
    I'm so glad I didn't upgrade my graphics yet. I was VERY close to getting a 7950...or 660 when it came out...think I'll wait till next gen comes around. Doom 4 is definitely 1 of those games I am willing to do a new build for :cool:
  3. johnnyfiive

    johnnyfiive

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,890 (1.71/day)
    Thanks Received:
    876
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I want Quake 5 to come out. Doom 4 would be great, but I want real multiplayer from a company that knows how to make good multiplayer games. Quake 4 wasn't even developed fully by id, which is why it was a horrible game. C'mon carmack! Show the quakers some love!
  4. phanbuey

    phanbuey

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    5,199 (2.14/day)
    Thanks Received:
    973
    Location:
    Miami
    yeah... even quake 4 I liked the single player... it just got a bit repetetive. But quake or another unreal torunament would be awesome. Battlefield is getting boring as hell.
    hellrazor and Lionheart say thanks.
  5. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    They do have an internal MP team now and if you've read they'll focus on MP properly.

    But doom is obviously not quake.

    There was a Quake 5 question at QC2011, maybe someone will ask again.

    Additionally Carmack mentioned other options for potential up-quality stuff, pertaining to Doom4, so if we didn't for Rage, the option's open, we may see a one super quality level or maybe a +50GB Super Quality Texture Pack for Doom4.
  6. callezetter New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1 (0.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    I dont get why noone gives us a complete live stream package with all the panels and competitions
    included. I bet there are 10´s of thousand worldwide that would buy a stream if they knew it would cover it all.

    Heck, i would pay premium for just a good live camera of the panels. And i know ALOT of other people would too.

    Why dont they want our money? I must be missing something. Or im totally blind.
  7. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    I don't really know at this point, but seems like nobody's talking about it, i'll have to ask the community manager, but he hasn't mentioned anything on the contrary when i mentioned it last time ...
  8. MadClown

    MadClown New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,362 (0.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    108
    Location:
    NY, the state were you cant defend yourself
    I lost some respect for id after how Rage turned out. Now that I no longer have all those bizarre texturing issues and shitty framerate, I can finally "enjoy" the game, but I must say, while the game is fairly fun and textures and animations look fantastic, I've been disappointed with the lack of dynamic shadowing, something that Doom 3 prided itself on. As it stands, aside from self shadowing on characters, the shadowing is very similar to that of the first Halo, which is almost 11 years old now.

    Nonetheless, I look forward to Doom 4 info.
  9. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    You don't really know what happend don't you ? :shadedshu

    Rage wasn't meant to be a full game at first, they changed their mind mid way of IDTech5 development, view it as a test project.

    The reason why it was bad on PC is because of GPU Drivers which have nothing to do with ID and the issues were out of their control, that's why they're working hard to make those hardware manufacturers start opening up their proprietary firmware and software, unified memory perhaps, some new hardware standards.

    The reality is, consoles have a low-level advantage, that's why they can run so clean, because developers can override and bypass APIs, they can practically write their own drivers, hardware manufacturers aren't game developers, they don't know how important this is, but their technical field should be way above the required to understand this, you can guess it's probably a cooky business or commercial matter, a weird one indeed.

    And they also admit this: http://www.gamepur.com/news/5668-carmack-developing-rage-consoles-was-big-mistake.html

    However under those circumstances anyone could made this mistake, development started like 2005 when the consoles we're out, got peak in 2008 but now everything's going around.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  10. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    We've just received word from Carmack him self, the Stream info is going to be announced soon!

    http://www.quakecon.org/
  11. MadClown

    MadClown New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,362 (0.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    108
    Location:
    NY, the state were you cant defend yourself
    And that couldn't have been worked out before the game was released? Regardless, what ever happened to "working with what you got"? If they're gonna be crybabies about it then they should disband as a development studio.

    I know everything that happened, i was reading and waiting on when it'll finally be playable for me. Ultimately I ended up getting a new rig anyway.
  12. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    No they couldn't have, it wasn't their fault, how much more do I need to explain before you take my word, I wouldn't be telling you if i wasn't sure.

    When the game released ATI released the wrong OGL driver. When the correct driver was released days later it was a bit fine, but still most of the month or so, Catalyst OGL drivers we're simply shit for the tech that was in IDTech5, but it's not just that, it's also the fact that drivers practically need to support every single game separately to make em work, not a lot of people realize this how much is in the driver and all these GPU wars are a waste of time, if there is a war it's rather of a driver kind.

    PC GPU Drivers we're always the same, it was always about the driver, those golden age PC times about who's gonna have the best GPUs were so slanted onto the manufacturer side because loads of non-tech people we're picking their sides and competing for GPU hardware, Radeon hardware was never bad that it would be a toss by the industry, it was the overhead existing on PCs, a single company cannot possibly provide that much of software optimization for all games out there, this is the developer's work that GPU vendors have to carry out because that's how it works, it's proprietary, developers can't make it because they would be hacking copyrigthed/patented material.

    You have simply no idea that's why you're tossing even more of these words around. But if you confronted them they would easily shut you down, it's not a surprise, you're not the only one of that diluted and unbased opinion because it's just not true, they didn't make it on purpose.

    Why im explaining this is simply to not let fuel others like you to ruin my thread and for any other reader to get informed what really happen before he jumps to his first post with anger.

    I would be exactly as grumpy as you are, exactly, it's obvious that there's something wrong with this whole hardware-software manufacturer politics, all you need to do is to TARGET your anger on the GPU vendors, then your opinion will become valid.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  13. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,494 (13.54/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,909
    Meh, the fact that any new iteration of Quake and a console are in the same conversation is very disappointing. ID is a has been, unfortunately.
  14. Bjorn_Of_Iceland

    Bjorn_Of_Iceland

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,172 (1.33/day)
    Thanks Received:
    375
    I still do salute them for making their codes open source after a few years though. Imo, they should just leave the story telling and sp experience to other developers and instead focus on their tech engine.

    Rage had low textures because it used low textures. They can opt to have hi res tex but didnt do so since they decided to include the console scene. Why they didnt make a hi res patch for the PC, I do not know. But that doesnt hide the fact that the new id tech engine is quite impressive. It had a few hiccups with the drivers, but such issues I think lies in developer > gpu manufacturer communication, and not the company as a whole.
  15. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    That fact is still too complex for some people to understand :shadedshu
    hellrazor says thanks.
  16. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    Got delayed 2 hours.
  17. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    20,855 (8.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    7,413
    I just died a little inside and its not from the cholesterol clogging my heart.
  18. hellrazor

    hellrazor

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,569 (0.98/day)
    Thanks Received:
    315
    You know, I have this strange thing where I can listen to Johnny forever but absolutely hate his voice.
  19. RevengE

    RevengE

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661 (1.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    211
    Location:
    Ohio
    Doom 4, I have been waiting for Years. If its a flop I will never forgive I.D. Rage was just okay.
  20. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
  21. RuskiSnajper

    RuskiSnajper

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,607 (0.81/day)
    Thanks Received:
    231
    Location:
    slovenia , europe
    That's it, finished up the keynote guide, still many stuff there newsworthy, that sites haven't mentioned at all.
  22. RejZoR

    RejZoR

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,425 (1.24/day)
    Thanks Received:
    873
    Location:
    Europe/Slovenia
    Quake 4 horrible? Quake 4 was fantastic, only thing that i disliked it was the lack of initial mass warzone fights and more a one man army later in the game. But still, it had good graphics, good gameplay, shocking turnaround half way through the game etc... i can't complain really. It was a good fun.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page