Rainbow Six: Siege

[kiddagoat]

I didn't see a post for this so I am adding one.

Open beta starts tomorrow unless you already were invited before. You can start playing today .

So far I am enjoying the gameplay. It has a good mix of Vegas gunplay and the planning of the older games. I have played all the other Rainbow Six games and the only one I really felt meh about was Lockdown.

I would consider giving it a try. You do need Uplay to access the game.

 

[erixx]

I had to reinstall Uplay, and download not "English" but "English UK" (much better anyway ) to get it started. These Canadians...

 

[rtwjunkie]

Glad to see this! I'm interested in seeing how the single player pans out. Something alot of gaming publications were talking about beforehand was the complete lack of information being released beforehand on SP, which probably meant it would be nowhere as good as the two Vegas SP campaigns were.

 

[W1zzard]

Does the Open Beta have single player? or is it the same as the closed beta earlier?

 

[erixx]

Yep, there is LONEWOLF mode where you do not need people.

 

[newconroer]

It has a good mix of Vegas gunplay...

and this is why it will never be an iconic game in the R6 franchise.

Whether they have planning or not, is irrelevant since people online tend to ignore all strategy due to COD / BF syndrome. The two reasons it worked back in the original R6 days, was A) People did not yet have COD syndrome and B) The gameplay did not allow you to play like you had COD syndrome.
Remember how crouching would stop your movement, and result in you taking a slow squat? Or side step/strafe felt like molasses compared to Quake II.

Any game that allows CounterStrike/COD-esque gameplay, will never ever be an environment where strategy can thrive.

Ever.

It's worth watching on Youtube, to see how far the R6 games have come technically, but as a die hard fan of the originals, I see this as just another cash grab on what is a dead man's legacy now.

 

[kiddagoat]

This is gameplay footage from a November press event. From the closed beta to this open one they made several changes to the guns, inventory, mechanics to balance the game out.

http://rainbow6.ubi.com/siege/en-GB/news/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-228106-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

^^^ Here is a rundown of some of the changes they made.

That new heartbeat sensor looks amazing. I have yet to try it out. This is the first game since the originals I think to have one. I don't recall seeing one in Vegas.

 

[Flogger23m]

and this is why it will never be an iconic game in the R6 franchise.

Whether they have planning or not, is irrelevant since people online tend to ignore all strategy due to COD / BF syndrome. The two reasons it worked back in the original R6 days, was A) People did not yet have COD syndrome and B) The gameplay did not allow you to play like you had COD syndrome.
Remember how crouching would stop your movement, and result in you taking a slow squat? Or side step/strafe felt like molasses compared to Quake II.

Any game that allows CounterStrike/COD-esque gameplay, will never ever be an environment where strategy can thrive.

Ever.

It's worth watching on Youtube, to see how far the R6 games have come technically, but as a die hard fan of the originals, I see this as just another cash grab on what is a dead man's legacy now.

The main problems are the following:

- Focus on PvP multiplayer which never works for tactical shooters. This is largely because the objective types are limited and the enemy team always knows other people are coming to get them.

- No squad commanding / SP.

- Lots of unlocks which prevent realistic or tactical squad loadouts.

- Lack of real missions for a proper co-op experience.

- Poor weapon mechanics and lots of gadgets that work nothing like their real world counterparts. The game relies too much of flashy gimmicks with zero emphasis on tactics like proper room clearing or coordinated breaching.

- Silly cartoon like characters to make classes distinguishable. Multi-national super-hero and feminist task force is what is PC these days. Remember how the original R6 games had females but actually looked realistic? Now they have their face covered with a balaclava, but hair sticking out covering their eyes so have zero situational awareness... because we have to ensure women characters standout like a sore thumb. Bring uniforms from your native country folks even though you're in Rainbow 6.

- Improper damage / reaction system. Instead there is red jelly, regenerating health and magical reviving. Getting shot in the leg should make players limp. AI needs proper reaction to impacts to.

- Dumb zombie like AI. I'm replaying SWAT 4 again, and while dated and not 100% perfect, the NPCs can do some life like things. Get someone to surrender? Keep your weapon on him until he is restrained or else the suspect may get up and flee. Had that happen a few times. Luckily my AI squad members put some rounds into them before they grabbed unsecured weapons.


And really, a whole lot more. It just isn't a tactical shooter, and going from the beta, it isn't even a good action shooter. Siege just feels like CS: GO which a bigger budget and even more unlocks. The fact that it is unlocked based yet commands a full price tag is not something that attracts me. Especially considering they charge more to unlock some content. With no SP, tiny maps, repetitive and shallow game play this just isn't the game for me. It is chasing after a younger (10-13) demographic much like CS did back in the day. The theme isn't even respectable. At least BF3/4 have remained adult themed for the most part. Siege is already showing off shark skin weapons and other visual garbage, which tells me they're going for a juvenile audience.

If I could get the game for free or a dirt cheap price maybe I'd give it a go but I doubt I could ever get into it. But $60? Just seems like there is too little content for me.

 

[kiddagoat]

Here's a run of the in-game benchmark, takes about 4 minutes or so to run. This is at 1440p with everything turned up to highest.... averaging about 40FPS.... might need to turn some of this down lol. I will try to get some more screens for you guys. So far I have failed Terrorist Hunt twice..... even on normal. The terrorist AI is pretty good. They will breach walls and defenses of their own to come to you. If they spot you, they will start shooting through the drywall at you. They use grenades and all as well. The terrorists each have a unique class to them as well. The little RC car for recon is nice. I like how it marks the general area when something was tagged but once destroyed or if they move, that intel could be worthless.

 

[RCoon]

The problem is it's a tactical shooter that's played by 90% CoD/Battlefield players.

So the tactical part goes straight out the window and every match turns into a run-and-gun fest. Played during closed testing phases and was definitely not a fan. It's odd when a playerbase ruins the point of its own game.

 

[newconroer]

The main problems are the following:

- Focus on PvP multiplayer which never works for tactical shooters. This is largely because the objective types are limited and the enemy team always knows other people are coming to get them.

- No squad commanding / SP.

- Lots of unlocks which prevent realistic or tactical squad loadouts.

- Lack of real missions for a proper co-op experience.

- Poor weapon mechanics and lots of gadgets that work nothing like their real world counterparts. The game relies too much of flashy gimmicks with zero emphasis on tactics like proper room clearing or coordinated breaching.

- Silly cartoon like characters to make classes distinguishable. Multi-national super-hero and feminist task force is what is PC these days. Remember how the original R6 games had females but actually looked realistic? Now they have their face covered with a balaclava, but hair sticking out covering their eyes so have zero situational awareness... because we have to ensure women characters standout like a sore thumb. Bring uniforms from your native country folks even though you're in Rainbow 6.

- Improper damage / reaction system. Instead there is red jelly, regenerating health and magical reviving. Getting shot in the leg should make players limp. AI needs proper reaction to impacts to.

- Dumb zombie like AI. I'm replaying SWAT 4 again, and while dated and not 100% perfect, the NPCs can do some life like things. Get someone to surrender? Keep your weapon on him until he is restrained or else the suspect may get up and flee. Had that happen a few times. Luckily my AI squad members put some rounds into them before they grabbed unsecured weapons.


And really, a whole lot more. It just isn't a tactical shooter, and going from the beta, it isn't even a good action shooter. Siege just feels like CS: GO which a bigger budget and even more unlocks. The fact that it is unlocked based yet commands a full price tag is not something that attracts me. Especially considering they charge more to unlock some content. With no SP, tiny maps, repetitive and shallow game play this just isn't the game for me. It is chasing after a younger (10-13) demographic much like CS did back in the day. The theme isn't even respectable. At least BF3/4 have remained adult themed for the most part. Siege is already showing off shark skin weapons and other visual garbage, which tells me they're going for a juvenile audience.

If I could get the game for free or a dirt cheap price maybe I'd give it a go but I doubt I could ever get into it. But $60? Just seems like there is too little content for me.

Yes, that pretty much wraps up CS/COD gameplay

The comments about gadgets that act nothing like their real world counterparts and unlocks creating unrealistic tactical loadouts... so true. I wonder if game developers have actually ever held a gun, or worn a pack of gear while trying to move. I challenge one of them to stand in their office and strafe back and forth like Duke Nukem before tripping over themselves. They'll probably smack their head on the desk and wake up on being able to only speak French. Management will ship them off to UbiSoft Montreal to work on the next Need for Speed.

The problem is it's a tactical shooter that's played by 90% CoD/Battlefield players.

So the tactical part goes straight out the window and every match turns into a run-and-gun fest. Played during closed testing phases and was definitely not a fan. It's odd when a playerbase ruins the point of its own game.

It certainly doesn't help, though I do not think the game play is really allowing for a proper tactical experience either. It's just not a good formula.

 

[erixx]

Many many games only excel when played in well familiarized teams and on comms. Always said BF would be great without respawns
So yes, like all of you say, the danger is if it is not "played as it should be played."


Ah, and this Siege game requieres to read the manual, yes a manual, oh mamma!

 

[kiddagoat]

Ya know @newconroer I think a game like ARMA or America's Army might be more your style and pacing then.

I hate to say it but the true tactical shooter days of Rouge Spear and Raven Shield are done. Some of those aspects will carry over to newer games but to have that style of shooter replicated in today's game just won't have the draw that it used to.

As noted from the bit of gameplay I have attempted, the planning stages are reminiscent of the older games except now it is done in real time with dynamic conditions. No longer do you look at a 2D map, set your waypoints and then watch the simulation evolve before you. I mean it was very appealing to have all of that back in the day but the audience they are catering to now I feel wants more interactivity and the tension created when doing things on the fly aids in that immersion value.

You still have to properly clear rooms and execute teamwork. If you think it is all run and gun CoD style you are surely mistaken. There is still tactics and strategy involved. To say otherwise is pure ignorance in my opinion.

 

[erixx]

Still... there are plenty of law enforcement or similar workers in the world that would love a more realistic simulator of what they do... Fak, we have a boring Car Mechanic Simulator and Goat Simulator, lol...

I played Lonewolf during lunch and had EPIC moments, fighting enemies and the Zwiebelsuppe

 

[vega22]

Does the Open Beta have single player? or is it the same as the closed beta earlier?

siege has no single player mode. looks like this started with a story aspect which has since be removed for reasons?

you can play alone vs ai in a hunt/defuse miss mash mode which makes 0 sense on half the maps....

The problem is it's a tactical shooter that's played by 90% CoD/Battlefield players.

So the tactical part goes straight out the window and every match turns into a run-and-gun fest. Played during closed testing phases and was definitely not a fan. It's odd when a playerbase ruins the point of its own game.

the game suits the rusher style of play, pushing out when defending is the best way to not get nade spam when closed in.

other games which have tried to do this "siege" gameplay have ran into the same issues.

but then again when you have the level of destruction they have it is easy to understand why they are so small.

during all the testing i have found myself in maybe half a dozen (?) good teams which worked together and then it was great but most of the games have been like your exp too :/

 

[AsRock]

Yes, that pretty much wraps up CS/COD gameplay

The comments about gadgets that act nothing like their real world counterparts and unlocks creating unrealistic tactical loadouts... so true. I wonder if game developers have actually ever held a gun, or worn a pack of gear while trying to move. I challenge one of them to stand in their office and strafe back and forth like Duke Nukem before tripping over themselves. They'll probably smack their head on the desk and wake up on being able to only speak French. Management will ship them off to UbiSoft Montreal to work on the next Need for Speed.

It certainly doesn't help, though I do not think the game play is really allowing for a proper tactical experience either. It's just not a good formula.

So true, i know UBI Montreal know how to make a game for us, they did it a few times. How ever the reason this is open beta is to find the highest percentage of people want nothing more nothing less.

Sadly we get left behind, i tried it just to see but it was a epic fail to me everyone just running around like crazed chickens even on the hardest difficulty.


Funny Part is i find Far Cry becoming more of what RvS and Ghost Recon than any other game they release been seeing it since FC2.

 

[Flogger23m]

Still... there are plenty of law enforcement or similar workers in the world that would love a more realistic simulator of what they do... Fak, we have a boring Car Mechanic Simulator and Goat Simulator, lol...

I played Lonewolf during lunch and had EPIC moments, fighting enemies and the Zwiebelsuppe

I also find this odd. I have no problem with trucking or farming, but to see developers are actively making those but not a single tactical shooter (aside from GB and ArmA) in the past decade? I'd imagine an R6 sequel would sell more than those.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Right so me and my few mates have been playing this and we tend to be tactical so to us its a tactical shooter ,the fact that others behave like they are playing cod is unimportant because human terrorists would also be a random bunch wouldn't they.
Codders just play into tactical hands imho

 

[AsRock]

No point in playing tactical if ya can just run around blasting shit lol.

 

[newconroer]

No point in playing tactical if ya can just run around blasting shit lol.

Probably what's worse is that in your head you want to play tactical, however everyone else runs past you doing stupid things and then you're caught in that awkward moment where you have to decide to do like everyone else, otherwise you'll be left behind and bored(or lose) - or, do your own thing and just play it how you want to play it.
Sadly, aspirations and grandeur visions of tactical warfare[inspired by long romantic walks on the beach with Tom Clancy] as they are in your head, come to an abrupt halt when somebody runs backwards and chucks a knife over three buildings, that hits you on the side of the helmet and manages to instantly kill you. Thus, doing your own thing only works in these games if 'doing your own thing' means letting your team mates be cannon fodder while you sneak around the side of maps and camp spawn, till you run up the score and get the air strike ability and start raining down combo kills on the other team(while still camping them).

At the end of the match, you are the high scorer, earning a ton of 'experience' to add to your rank, allowing you to unlock all manner of unrealistic features and attachments to your weapons - none of which any self respecting, God fearing or survival oriented special operations soldier would ever use.
And with those ranks, you get physics defying perks, such as the ability to bleed slower, or reinforce your sternum and nut sack, to stop the effectiveness of hollow point bullets.

PlanetSide 2 is a great example of what happens when you allow narcissism(a.k.a. score keeping and ranks) and arcade game play run amok. All tactical options go out the window and it's everyone for themselves-get the highest score.

 

[AsRock]

Been there with RvS they just get pissy and just leave, as i said it either is or it's not. Sure a great time you can have with friends who want to play that way but not everyone does and were surly out numbered.

This is why Arma is pretty much the same game as it was back then, although that did change to as OFP was a notch higher. I just hope they finally get CQB finally sorted in arma which is some thing the games lacked doing right.

Did not mind as much then with having Ghost Recon RvS and even SWAT with it's terrible loading times, now i am the need of such game and no America's Army is not my thing hate the game engine to begin with and lacks every thing Arma does so well.

For the time i did try this beta it seemed that everyone know full well were the bad guys were and every thing.

 

[Flogger23m]

At the end of the match, you are the high scorer, earning a ton of 'experience' to add to your rank, allowing you to unlock all manner of unrealistic features and attachments to your weapons - none of which any self respecting, God fearing or survival oriented special operations soldier would ever use.

Wait, you're telling me you don't want $35 air soft sights bought at Walmart in your games?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/t_c84lhCWgQ/maxresdefault.jpg

When I played the Hardline beta my favorite thing about it was the Aimpoint.

Coming back to Siege, why is there another beta and when does it end? Is it worth downloading again? I assume it will more or less be the same. As I mentioned before my biggest problem with the game is the very heavy unlock based nature of the game. Especially when abilities are locked. I simply don't have fun unlocking things. I prefer playing the games.

 

[ShiBDiB]

Having given the beta a whirl I'd sadly consider this game not worth a purchase.

They had the potential to make a tactical game that required strategy and planning to be effective (something that's missing lately). But instead it's nothing more than a run and gun esque game with gadgets that aren't even interesting. Most of the gadgets already exist in other games. The worst part of the gameplay is that the gunplay doesn't feel right, weapons are difficult to aim down the sights and wildly innacurate from the hip. With kills feeling more like luck and having the better connection than anything resembling skill.

The obvious gripe of uplay still exists as well. Even on consoles you're required to install the uplay app and create an account. It kind of makes sense on PC, but when I'm also required to do so on Xbox its just asinine.

 

[erixx]

it misses the sneaky slow gameplay, and the gagdets are detrimental, like in any game, like BF, i favour a basic sortiment open to all to adapt to mission and style of everyone. Then add a basic movement detection and intel sharing system.

No respawn adds a bit of seriousness though. And I have seen teams (same gamer clantag) that resolve the matches in maybe 20 seconds, with no choice for the each playing on his own guys, but although admirable, it makes it even less fun to play 30 secs, and wait lets guess 3 minuts to wait for all the end match and start match screens to pass...

 

[newconroer]

Coming back to Siege, why is there another beta and when does it end? Is it worth downloading again? I assume it will more or less be the same. As I mentioned before my biggest problem with the game is the very heavy unlock based nature of the game. Especially when abilities are locked. I simply don't have fun unlocking things. I prefer playing the games.

This is something I always used to harp on about, when games like CounterStrike and COD rose to fame. In Rainbow Six they gave you a selection of equipment and expected you to choose what was best for the job. You want a shotgun? Sure go for it. You'll get everyone killed instantly, but hey, you're Domingo DING Chavez!
The choice was yours. No ranks, no experience(the experience was gained in your head, not in the game), no perks, no unlocks. If you chose the wrong equipment, it may cost you the game. You learned, you adapted and you improved.

All the while you were playing the game, actually playing IT, instead of playing some score card so you could make your character better (despite you not necessarily becoming a better player) and reap the benefits.


Ok now all this talk of R6, who wants to play some Eagle Watch? PM me and I'll host.