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Really annoyed with random ping spikes.

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by lwgnlseven, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    Sounds like it is your ISP's issue. You're pinging 192.168.100.1, so you must be using a cable modem, right? Have you logged into it with a browser to see what your power level and SNR for your up and downstream is when your latency spikes?
     
  2. lwgnlseven

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    Yes I have a cable modem. SNR is Signal to Noise Ratio correct? With a normal, low latency, my SNR is 34-35 dB and power level is -9 dBmV. When latency went up in game, I refreshed the modem page and the numbers remained the same during latency spike. Since my router and modem did not spike up with latency, does that mean they are both working properly?

    I did 2 tracert to yahoo.com just now. The first one is with my computer directly to the modem. The second one is my computer through the router. Does something look wrong ? The latency is higher on the router then the modem...

    [​IMG]

    And here is another tracert to yahoo.com with the router showing everything fine again....

    Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
    Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    C:\Users\Anthony>tracert yahoo.com

    Tracing route to yahoo.com [98.139.183.24]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms dlinkrouter [192.168.0.1]
    2 * * * Request timed out.
    3 8 ms 25 ms 9 ms gateway-g1-050-lbhblocal1.lbh.ptd.net [204.186.1
    8.150]
    4 20 ms 22 ms 40 ms gateway2-t4-3-abn22blo2.abn.ptd.net [207.44.126.
    1]
    5 18 ms 19 ms 19 ms gateway2-t4-3-abn22blo2.abn.ptd.net [207.44.126.
    1]
    6 21 ms 22 ms 22 ms exchange-cust1.dc2.equinix.net [206.126.236.16]

    7 35 ms 23 ms 38 ms ae-6.pat1.che.yahoo.com [216.115.96.81]
    8 44 ms 42 ms 51 ms ae-5.pat2.bfz.yahoo.com [216.115.96.67]
    9 35 ms 34 ms 47 ms ge-1-0-0.pat2.bfz.yahoo.com [216.115.97.207]
    10 38 ms 58 ms 35 ms xe-10-0-0.clr1-a-gdc.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.232.1
    03]
    11 32 ms 33 ms 35 ms et-17-1.fab8-1-gdc.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.128.51]

    12 42 ms 33 ms 36 ms po-16.bas1-7-prd.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.130.1]
    13 * 43 ms 101 ms ir2.fp.vip.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.183.24]

    Trace complete.

    C:\Users\Anthony>


    I'm getting so frustrated....Is it the router? I thought for sure it was the ISP.....I'm getting mixed results. The router shows yahoo.com ping up at 800ms while the modem showed much lower, but then the modem showed google.com at 100ms on modem while only 20ms on router in another test. Can't decide if its the ISP doing it, the modem? The router? Ugh!......
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  3. 95Viper

    95Viper

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    Your router and modem seem fine.
    I would ignore any high latency spikes from yahoo.com or google.com, as that is their servers responding and are busy and there is not much you or your isp can do about them, except inform them of it somehow.

    I only noticed one hop on your isp's network, during one of your trace routes, that was high; however, that could be an anomaly, unless you see it often during tests.

    Did you test with your AV/Firewall(software) disabled? Don't forget to turn back on when finished.
    And, make sure you have no apps doing any background connections.

    Also, you may want to try disconnecting everyone from the router(un-plug them from the ports and disable your wireless) and test.

    I don't know if you have seen these APB Reloaded sites, or not; so, I will post you some links that may be of assistance.

    Confirmed Latency fixes Having lag? check out these fixes.
    Report Latency Spikes Learn how here!
    And, some reading from the dev's blog: Optimization Magic
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  4. lwgnlseven

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    I appreciate you looking into the problem for me. Apb is not the only thing that I see latency spikes though. I also get high latency spikes in Battlefield 3 also. I once also saw my ventrilo ping spike when just surfing the net and no games running in the background. That never happens.

    I tried testing last night on just directly to the modem and had no spiking. I then went back to the router and had no spiking either. Maybe I didn't test long enough, maybe I don't get many spikes after 11pm, idk. I will try again on the modem today to see if I can get the spikes while directly to the modem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  5. lwgnlseven

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    Which hop did you see? If you let me know I can keep an eye on that and do multiple tests to see if it was an anomaly or not. I'm assuming #5 gateway 2?

    It is very common for apb servers to have latency spikes. The game has problems. When I experience the servers spiking, my ISP latency does not spike. That I strictly game problem. But occasionally apb and ISP/websites/ventrilo/anything connected to the Internet spikes with it, is not normal. And battlefield 3 ping spikes on occasion now, vent ping spikes on occasion when surfing the net....

    At first I thought it was just an apb problem because I have seen those apb topics before. But after a while I started realizing there is more to it then that.

    I did a quality test at that visualware website you sent me. I can only test to chicago, london, san jose california, as they are the only ones available at this time, but are these results alarming at all? Can anyone else run the test to chicago and compare results so I can see if maybe its just a common thing for everyone?

    http://myspeed.visualware.com/serve...Visualware&provlink=http://www.visualware.com

    Here are my results using my router....

    [​IMG]

    Here are my results using my modem....

    [​IMG]

    Do these results show a problem with the router? Or is the router blocking certain ports that send specific packets? I'm not sure what to take from these results and IF they are related to my random latency spikes or not.... What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  6. lwgnlseven

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    I would also like to add, is it normal for ms latency to increase when loading a youtube video? I notice if I try loading any kind of youtube video, my ms to my ISP goes from 8ms to 200ms for maybe 5-10 seconds, then back to normal again. This normal? I have never noticed loading a video before making my latency spike up so much, perhaps I never took notice or maybe its not normal? I played some games mostly all of today and had 0 spikes on the router, now at 9pm I got my first one. I notice most spikes from 6pm - 11pm.

    More problems tonight. My fathers computer can't even get online connected to the modem. My computer works just fine though. If I connect his to the modem, he gets Internet then, but not with the router. Getting really tired of this. His doesn't work but mine does? I updated the firmware the other day and this is the first time he's tried it since. Might have to roll back the firmware. Might also just buy a new router. Getting tired of this one. Any suggestions? How important is an N router? I have 2 iPods and laptop that will connect to it. I also want something reliable for handling gaming connections.

    Really starting to hate computers.... Way too many things always going wrong.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  7. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    You're joking, right?

    All of your cable levels are a bit low. -9dBmV is really low for downstream which could explain what is going on. The SNR is okay, but any lower than 30 and you'll start having problems. Honestly the combination of the two might be causing issues. Does the modem go through any splitters before it gets to the street? It sounds like you might be splitting the Coax too many times. Also will games still lag if you plug the computer directly into the modem?
     
  8. 95Viper

    95Viper

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    No, and, if you make a comment please explain your reason.

    Those numbers may not be perfect and may be able to be improved; however, they are in the acceptable range.

    What kind of signal levels do I want on my cable modem?
     
  9. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    I think that those numbers are bogus. It's given me the same warnings and my internet is running plenty fine.
    Let's start with there is clearly a problem and you said there isn't. I shouldn't have to explain myself much beyond that because you didn't either. :slap:

    Hah! Yeah, if he is running DOCSIS 1.0. 1.0 likes power levels within +-15dBmV, 2.0 likes it within +-12, and 3.0 likes it within +-8. As far as SNR, he's borderline, if it drops below 30dB he will most likely start dropping packets. Granted this depends on hardware. Some modems are more resilient and other are less.

    So they may be barely acceptable, which could be signs of a problem. Like I said, how many splitters are between the modem and the cable tap to the pole outside?

    What is considered good is something like this:
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  10. 95Viper

    95Viper

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    I said the router and modem are fine... and, I believe that to be true.
    Please, explain how you come to the conclusion they are not?
    Are they defective?
    How did you come to this conclusion?
    I did not say the cabling, settings, or other factors may not be the cause.
    And, please... give yourself the V8 moment.:shadedshu


    But, they are in an acceptable range, even if barely.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  11. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    I know, I get that. I'm asking for you to prove it.

    Because the numbers are low and we don't know what spec of DOCSIS he is running. If its 3.0 than his numbers are out of spec, if its 2.0 his numbers are barely in spec. Both of which can cause problems. If a LAN had just enough crosstalk to not cause problems doesn't mean that crosstalk isn't slowing the network down. Cable internet and QAM is the same exact way.

    No? Did I say anything about them being defective? I don't think I did.

    Read my last post, or this one because I'm re-iterating myself because you don't see to be reading what I'm saying. Let me just quote myself...

    I know, and the numbers are cause for concern with the cabling and other factors so you should be considering everything until you've ruled them out and if you have ruled them out then that just goes to show that you're not good at diagnosing cable modems, no offense, but what your ruling out is possibly the problem.

    Not a fan of V8. I'll grab an orange juice instead.

    Electronics being "barely in spec" never okay. Don't rule it out until you can prove that it isn't the problem. Just because a power supply provides the upper or lower bound of allowable ATX power does not mean that it is good or that it won't cause problems. A lot of electronics with spec requirements on signaling will work like this because devices are very sensitive.

    Think about two people. The SNR is the noise in the background and the power level is how loud a person is shouting. If you're next to the person you can talk normally and regardless of what is going on around you, you probably hear him or her pretty clearly. As you move further away that noise becomes much louder and the other person has to yell to get you to hear them. Now assuming that DOCSIS spec is like this situation. Just because it is "barely in spec" doesn't mean that the other person (or modem in our case,) can hear you, but it's so distorted you can't make out what the person is saying, but then night time comes around, everyone goes home, the noise goes away and the same person yelling just as loud can now be heard and understood instead of just being heard without being comprehensible.

    So yes, the numbers have a lot to do with the quality of the internet he is getting off the street even if they're "barely within spec" and the combination of a low power level and poor SNR suggests a physical problem.
     
  12. lwgnlseven

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    What is a normal latency when loading YouTube videos at 1080p? I've been noticing when loading some videos in HD, that my ping on ventrilo spikes up thus delaying any VoIP messages by 15-20 seconds. I've never had a problem with that before. So I started to look into it. I ran a cmd and pinged to my default gateway and have a latency of 7-11ms which is great. I'll load a YouTube video in 1080p and latency goes to 50-70ms. I'm sure that's normal, I am after all loading a 1080p video. But if I reload that same video in 1080p, it might load this time at 600ms. Reload again, might be back to 50-70ms. Sometimes it goes to 1200ms. Once 3000ms. One time the request to ping timed out multiple times and my ping on ventrilo went from 38-10000.

    It is completely random. I can't sit and watch the cmd numbers run off 24/7 to make sure I'm not lagging the connection for anyone else. When it hit 3000ms, my dad couldn't load any web pages on his computer at all. This happens on BOTH the router AND the modem. I have a 10mb connection through cable. 10mb not good enough to load 1 video and surf the web at the same time? o_O I have been using clothes cable connection for 8-9 years and have never had a lag problem that I've ever noticed like this before. The cable tech guy insisted that its the router going bad, even though it does the same thing on the modem. -.-

    Am I paranoid? Is it perfectly normal for ms to spike to over 1000 loading an HD video and no one else in the house be able to surf the net until the video is finished?.....
     
  13. lwgnlseven

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    Got a new netgear WNDR3700 hooked up today and still pinging up unusually in games tonight. New modem and new router and still same problems.
     
  14. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    You know, I've already said that it's probably your power levels and your ISP. It's worth asking them and having them check it out.

    Do you use any splitters before the Coax gets to the cable modem?
     
  15. lwgnlseven

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    I want familiar with splitters but I do not see anything like that attached to the modem. Just a single cable from the modem to the wall. I'll have to ask about the power levels. You suggest it should be closer to -2db I think?
     
  16. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    If you have multiple jacks for TV around your place of residence, the more ports the more the signal is split. So it may not be split coming off the wall (which is a good start,) but it might be split right off the pole (which you might have trouble changing.)

    Ideally your downstream power level should be 0dBmV, but depending on the spec your cable modem uses, it could be okay to be between +-15dBmB, 12dBmV, or 8dBmV. Issues with SNR and power levels most likely won't make the ping jump up alone, but rather causes packet loss so the modem has to re-try which gives the apparance of higher latency.

    Considering the ping looks like it jumps once it hits the first router outside of your network would describe an issue with your connection to your ISP, so I would give them a call and let them know what is happening. Your ISP is the most qualified to diagnose issues from your modem to the node.
     
  17. brandonwh64

    brandonwh64 Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

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    This goes with what I said earlier in the thread. Have the ISP run a dedicated coax to the modem from the cable box or pole outside. This will rule out degradation due to multiple splitters.

     
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    Crunching for Team TPU
  18. Solaris17

    Solaris17 Creator Solaris Utility DVD

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    I personally dont think its his modem or his router. From my experience anyway any time their is an issue with my home network equipment most if not all of my pings from my equipment drop or have very high latency. IMO the first thing I would look at is your signal quality. your tests from inside your network seem fine. A little high maybe but your loading your network. Your outside tests are too high and quality degrades bad. This has happened to me.

    first and formost

    98.139.130.1

    is bad for me too. i run on a 60/25 line on fios and I get around 230ms from that address.

    second.

    Like above this has happened to me before. You need to tell your ISP to run a condition test to the nearest switch/hub. My problem was noise on my port (line to my neighborhood) and they had to switch me to a diffirent line on the switch to my block because my TTL would skyrocket and I would time out. You need to explain to them you have run a trace and everything goes wrong when it leaves your home network. If they say thay cant fix it explain to them you will leave their service. The problem is on their end from what I see. getting a tech to switch your box will do nothing.

    Also switching your DNS servers on your router might help (make sure your box is in bridged mode)
     
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  19. lwgnlseven

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    Appreciate the responses guys. I will see about getting a tech guy back out here and test those damn lines lol. I'll keep you posted.
     
  20. 95Viper

    95Viper

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    I have no need or desire to prove anything to you.

    This has nothing to do with my statement of his router or modem seeming to be fine.
    I did not mention his settings, connection, splitters, cabling, etc. in that sentence you quoted.

    Agreed, but you made the insinuation I was wrong with your comment that follows:
    I am glad you added "if" there... as, I never ruled out other causes, seems you assumed I did.
    I just stated the router and modem seemed fine.

    As for my diagnostic capability of modems (any type) and routers (which you did not address)... they are more than adequate.

    Just to let you know I came to this opinion by reading the whole thread and interpreting the facts posted.
    You may need to take time to read the thread and piece together the info;and, if you have read the complete thread... then, you may wish to improve comprehending what you read, no offense.

    Back to the topic:

    I hope that the Cable company and/or the tech can sort out your worries.

    If not, then, here is another opinion, based on your posts:

    These statements are making my opinion lean to the natural way of the net lately and/or the overselling of your cable pipe.
    They (the local resellers of PenTeleData),possibly, oversell to maximize the use of their pipe for cost/profit.

    If you have any neighbors, you know or can speak with, that have the same provider... see if they are have the same or similar issues. If they have the same problem, get them to contact your provider and, maybe, they will upgrade your neighborhood's facilities.
     
  21. lwgnlseven

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    Okay a tech guy from the cable provider was out today and checked the quality of the line outside and said everything looked fine. He is going to bring out a team on another day and try to check them more thorough but not sure where else to go with this. Also he said that we are the only house in the neighborhood that is complaining about this issue. Perhaps others in the neighborhood do not game and wouldn't notice this issue either way.

    New modem, new router, cable quality appears fine. Not sure what else to do....Still random pinging up in games and ventrilo server without warning and at random times...
     
  22. lwgnlseven

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    Cable guy was out today and replaced the cable running from the box outside, to the house. Both ends of the cable were fried and 1 was crushed. I've been getting only half the speed I've been paying for, for a week now. The new cable fixed the speeds back to normal, however I'm still, having latency spikes in games while playing...

    He said there is 1 more wire he could try replacing if this didn't work...

    So thats a new modem, a new router, new cable, what the hell else could be the problem here?....
     
  23. lwgnlseven

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    Cable guy came back today. He replaced the 2nd wire now, still getting latency spikes. So brand new modem, router, and all brand new cabling and its still happening. He said next step is to call my ISP provider which is PennTeleData. He also said perhaps its my network card failing. I do not have a network card, I'm using the ethernet from my motherboard. Perhaps I should get a NIC card? Not sure where else to go with this at this point.
     
  24. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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    If it's on aoll systems it might be your isp.. When i think my ISP is having issue's i like using 3Dtraceeroute ( http://www.d3tr.de/download.html ). I proved to Comcast by using this app that were the current issue is.


    Simple to use too just add website\IP to connect too and select list as and you see were your higher ms is coming from.

    Example picture

    [​IMG]
     
    james888 says thanks.
  25. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    A regular traceroute in Linux or Windows would work just as well.

    On Linux/*nix
    Code:
    gateway:~$ traceroute techpowerup.com
    traceroute to techpowerup.com (173.249.152.206), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
     1  73.160.192.1 (73.160.192.1)  5.997 ms  9.896 ms  14.402 ms
     2  te-5-2-ur01.dover.nh.boston.comcast.net (68.85.185.93)  15.021 ms  15.103 ms  15.114 ms
     3  be-81-ar01.needham.ma.boston.comcast.net (69.139.220.77)  18.710 ms  18.790 ms  18.800 ms
     4  he-2-8-0-0-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.93.185)  47.234 ms  47.281 ms  47.294 ms
     5  he-0-3-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.88.142)  52.951 ms  52.998 ms  53.013 ms
     6  be-14-pe03.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.82.210)  44.677 ms  37.374 ms  37.491 ms
     7  as4436.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net (173.167.57.126)  42.345 ms  46.674 ms  47.832 ms
     8  ae1-60g.cr2.ord1.us.nlayer.net (69.31.111.137)  45.239 ms  45.097 ms  45.277 ms
     9  as32748.ae1-133.cr2.ord1.us.nlayer.net (69.31.110.30)  45.157 ms  51.705 ms  51.760 ms
    10  ip74.208-100-32.static.steadfastdns.net (208.100.32.74)  44.870 ms  44.913 ms  38.295 ms
    11  ip4.67-202-87.static.steadfastdns.net (67.202.87.4)  43.197 ms  47.345 ms  47.165 ms
    Or Windows:
    Code:
    >tracert techpowerup.com
    
    Tracing route to techpowerup.com [173.249.152.206]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:
    
      1    <1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  GATEWAY [10.0.0.254]
      2     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  73.160.192.1
      3    13 ms     9 ms     7 ms  te-5-2-ur01.dover.nh.boston.comcast.net [68.85.1
    85.93]
      4    12 ms    15 ms    15 ms  be-81-ar01.needham.ma.boston.comcast.net [69.139
    .220.77]
      5    39 ms    47 ms    47 ms  he-2-8-0-0-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net [68
    .86.93.185]
      6    48 ms    47 ms    47 ms  he-0-3-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net
    [68.86.88.142]
      7    39 ms    39 ms    39 ms  be-14-pe03.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.8
    6.82.210]
      8    41 ms    39 ms    41 ms  as4436.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [173.167.
    57.126]
      9    39 ms    40 ms    38 ms  ae1-60g.cr2.ord1.us.nlayer.net [69.31.111.137]
     10    38 ms    47 ms    49 ms  as32748.ae1-133.cr2.ord1.us.nlayer.net [69.31.11
    0.30]
     11    40 ms    39 ms    39 ms  ip74.208-100-32.static.steadfastdns.net [208.100
    .32.74]
     12    39 ms    39 ms    42 ms  ip4.67-202-87.static.steadfastdns.net [67.202.87
    .4]
     13    39 ms    39 ms    39 ms  www.techpowerup.com [173.249.152.206]
    
    Trace complete.
     

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