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Really, the ABSOLUTE LAST X800 Thread...

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by YodaBob, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. YodaBob

    YodaBob New Member

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    I realize the hardware is ANCIENT, but I am (of necessity) a "bottom feeder".

    I recently purchased a Sappire X800 GTO AGP (1024-CC66-00-SA) card, from a leading online shopping site, to serve as a backup for the few remaining AGP cards

    installed in PC's I support for remembers of my extended family. Shame on me, but I did not fully test the card before posting favorable feedback.

    Unfortunately, the card I received appears to have been rendered useless as the result of a failed BIOS flash attempt. Upon installation, I am greeted with

    only a blank screen. I installed a PCI video card and attempted to view the current configuration (atiflash -i), but find that the there is an apparent

    insurmountable configuration error. The Rialto (PCIe-AGP bridge) BIOS location on this card is completely empty. There is nothing to be saved, recovered, or

    backed up using the "atiflash" application. Not having completed the BIOS flash myself, I DO NOT HAVE a backup copy of the original Rialto BIOS!

    I've spent a HUGE amount of time scouring this forum (and the World-wide Web) for a solution, but to no avail. All that is left for me is a plea for help!

    I believe I can "save" the card if only some gracious person, as fond of ancient iron as I, might possibly post a copy of the Rialto PCIe-AGP bridge BIOS

    originally found on the card so that I might flash the card back into a usable state.

    What I believe may help: ANY Rialto BIOS from AGP cards based on the ATI R423 or R430 GPU chip is worth a shot!

    My plea: Members currently running (or having available) compatible hardware: Please post saves of BIOS files with the potential to provide a solution to my

    unfortunate predicament.

    Thanks!

    YodaBob
  2. streetfighter 2

    streetfighter 2 New Member

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  3. YodaBob

    YodaBob New Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply, StreetFighter!

    I checked the BIOS Collection very carefully, looking at files representing many manufacturers. Unfortunately, there appear to be no BIOS files for bridge chips.

    Running the "atiflash -i" command from my boot CD, the output indicates two adapters are present; with ASIC's representing Rialto and (oddly) R423. I have verified that the GPU chip is in fact (physically marked) an R430, leading me to the assumption this card is the victim of a flash gone wrong.

    Further, both adapters (0 and 1) share the same device ID.

    While I am able to successfully flash the GPU with any widely available .bin file, I cannot find anywhere a BIOS file for the bridge chip. I have succesfully tested communications and appear able to link up with the Rialto chip as indicated by running the atiflash -t command.

    Ignorant of any reason why it might NOT happen, I'm convinced I could flash Rialto with a compatible BIOS to put this card in service.

    Very interested to hear your replies!

    YodaBob
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  4. segalaw19800

    segalaw19800

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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010
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  5. segalaw19800

    segalaw19800

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  6. Completely Bonkers New Member

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    The "rialto chip" does not have any firmware of its own, however, an AGP based card with a rialto requires a different BIOS to the AGP without rialto. The X800XL AGP used a rialto. Maybe try this BIOS - but only if it has similar memory quantity/speeds.

    I do believe there are massive problems with nuking an AGP-over-rialto. If you check this forum, the usual practice it so PROGRAM THE BIOS with a bios programmer or fly leads. It is rather technical, but I believe the info is around here somewhere.

    Anyway, wish you good luck.

    It might be less painful and time consuming to pick up a used AGP card from ebay. They are DIRTY CHEAP now. Less than EUR20/GBP20 incl. shipping. Dont buy one at a buy-it-now price.
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  7. scaminatrix

    scaminatrix

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    YodaBob, where are you from? I got an AGP card in my thread for price of postage.
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  8. HookeyStreet

    HookeyStreet Eat, sleep, game!

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    I would have guessed the UK by the way he speaks ;) But then I saw that he spelt favourable without the 'u' which could mean hes from the States lol
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  9. {JNT}Raptor

    {JNT}Raptor New Member

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    I don't get it......if it hasn't worked since the day you got it.....then demand a refund from the "leading online shopping site" or at least an RMA.....not doing that makes me thing you tried to flash it to an XL unsuccessfully and are now scrambling to get it working...no issues there....we all tried it at some point and time. :D

    Bottom line.....if the card arrived dead.....then you are due an RMA or refund of your money.
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  10. scaminatrix

    scaminatrix

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    aha
    try this bios first
    if that doesn't work, try this.
    Good old TPU!

    EDIT: is your card 64MB?

    EDIT 2: Oooh, another one
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010
  11. HookeyStreet

    HookeyStreet Eat, sleep, game!

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    This! If it was DOA, he should just return it. By the looks of it, the card came from ebay (because he mentioned feedback). If TS is worried about the fact he left positive feedback before testing, he shouldnt. Because he can still open a dipsute with PayPal because feedback isnt taken into account.
  12. YodaBob

    YodaBob New Member

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    Thanks to all for your very good suggestions!

    In a nutshell, this purchase is recent only in the context of glacial time. While I may or may not have the right to dispute the transaction, I choose not to do so.

    More interesting to me is the possibility of repairing the card.

    I've come across a few posts listing the output of the atiflash -i command on similar AGP cards. In these cases, information (DID, ASIC, BIOS size, checksum, and BIOS P/N) was presented for TWO BIOS files, the Rialto bridge and the RXXX GPU. In each case the Rialto chip had a BIOS part number different from that of the GPU.

    There is a wealth of knowledge and experience in these pages! Having read through dozens of threads and hundreds of posts, I fully understand it may be difficult to flash through or to the Rialto chip. During this journey, I've stumbled across a couple of potential (yet challenging) solutions; each requiring copies of the correct BIOS files. while I've found several R430 AGP BIOS's that will work, none include code for the Rialto bridge.

    My plan is to obtain copies of both original bios files, either from owners of similar iron or through the purchase of an identical card from which to harvest the files.

    If any among you has held on to a working X800 XL or GTO AGP card and is willing to help out, I would be delighted to receive a link or file containing the output of the following commands:

    atiflash -s 0 rialto.bin
    atiflash -s 1 rxxx.bin

    Thanks again for the warm welcome, quick replies, and solid advice!

    Best Regards,

    YodaBob
  13. Steevo

    Steevo

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    My X800XL had the chip and I have my original and many other BIOS files in the original 800 threads.


    More importantly someone probably used the BIOS with the wrong memory setup. There were a few different memory chips on the cards.

    Take off the cooler and get your chip info.
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    10 Million points folded for TPU
  14. YodaBob

    YodaBob New Member

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    Chip Info

    Hi, Steevo-

    I recognize your name, having recently read through many of those original discussions and have perhaps downloaded some of the bios files you mention

    My chip:

    ATI Radeon X800 Pro
    R430
    215RBBAKA11F
    N16699.00
    0510AAP
    TAIWAN
    PCI EXPRESS

    So the chip is native PCI-e and counts on the bridge for translation.

    The card has 256MB of Samsung 2.0 memory.

    I booted the pc using a dos boot cd loaded with bios files and flash utilities. Using an old pci video card for output and with the broken radeon in its slot, I first ran atiflash with the -i switch to see what I had to work with. The output (from memory) suggested the rialto bridge residing at adapter 0 and the r423(??) at adapter 1.

    While atiflash appeared happy with the status of adapter 1 (checksum listed, passed, and p/n displayed), adapter 0 (asic:rialto) came up empty.

    Attempts to save existing adapter 0 bios (using atiflash -s 0 rialto.bin 10000) yielded an empty file!

    The rialto bridge is "broken", having no bios code to support its function. Not having performed the original flash, I do not have a backup of the original bios.

    I believe the current condition of this card may be due to a prior owner of the card having experienced a flash gone wrong.

    If you will recall, instructions for flashing the x800gto frequently suggested flashing as follows:

    atiflash -f -p -newbios 0 filename.bin

    I'm thinking that running this command ON AN AGP CARD (with the rialto bios resident on adapter 0) might overwrite the bridge chip bios, rendering the card useless.

    Is this theory plausible in your experience?

    Old AGP cards are a dime a dozen. This one would have ended up in the landfill a long time ago if only I had the ability to turn my back on an interesting technical challenge. I'm simply not wired that way. I am unwilling to toss the thing until I've at least tried to restore the bios files.

    I appreciate any assistance you and others may provide!

    YodaBob
  15. Frogger

    Frogger

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    is this your card???.... note model # on white tag
    if so use att: bios

    Attached Files:

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  16. YodaBob

    YodaBob New Member

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    CLOSE, but...

    Thanks, Frogger!

    Like yours, the physical layout my card closely adheres to ATI's refence design.

    Mine has a red PCB, a different heatsink/fan, and an L-shaped aluminum heat spreader covering the meory chips on the back side of the card.

    It uses the R430 chip and has 256MB of Samsung 2.0ns memory.

    The white tag on the back bears the P/N 1024-CC66-00-SA (yours appears to be ...-1A-SA).

    Based on the bios file you attached, yours also uses the R430. Your bios would probably work in my card as well, if only I had a copy of the Rialto bios that goes with it!

    In the past 24 hours I've learned that the R430-based AGP cards are not native AGP. The R430 is a PCI-e part and relies on the the Rialto bridge to translate to the AGP bus.

    I've also observed that the Rialto bridge device has a BIOS of its own. Running atiflash -i on my card gives details on TWO adapters, "0" being labeled Rialto and "1" being the R430 itself.

    My Rialto BIOS came to me broken, I don't have a backup, and a replacement is proving hard to come by...

    I've got a saved search running on ebay. Eventually I'll track down an identical card from which I may "clone" the BIOS I need.

    I'll end up either two working cards or a pair of matching paperweights...

    Thanks for your help!
  17. segalaw19800

    segalaw19800

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  18. YodaBob

    YodaBob New Member

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    Very, VERY COOL!

    Now that's what I'm talking about!

    Two adapters, dID, asic, flash, and romsize match my card.

    The only differences:

    -My Rialto BIOS hasn't passed test
    -My R423 bios p/n is different (as it might well be)

    Honestly, though, it is the first time in my limited experience to see the same BIOS P/N for both adapters. This has me reconsidering insights shared earlier by Completely Bonkers.

    So, if the bios p/n's might be the same, then might they not come from the same source?

    Perhaps a single BIOS file?

    Hmmm.

    Thanks for sharing. I may see a light at the end of the tunnel.

    Hope it's not a train!

    Might one flash using "atiflash -f -pa correctbios.bin" with any hope of infusing the correct code into both devices?
  19. segalaw19800

    segalaw19800

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    Well I still looking for the bio file but it will take some time for me to find it . :toast:
  20. segalaw19800

    segalaw19800

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    it a try
  21. segalaw19800

    segalaw19800

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  22. Steevo

    Steevo

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    I swapped so many different BIOS's on my card that I''m suprized I didnt wear out the traces.


    Try the rialto bridge and a BIOS from a 430 chip card that has the same memory. Really the BIOS part numbers mean nothing other than a few different fan slopes, manufacturer, and timings.


    I custom made my card believe it was everything from ATI to a few Nvidia cards, add the driver line to the ATI drivers and you can have anything. The memory and timings are what matter here. If you find one that actually gets you stable at boot and into windows you can use some of the older tools to mess around with the timings and find what works, do a final BIOS edit with that and max core and memory speed and flash it.

    In all my flashes the rialto was never one I messed with and to be honest I never remember it having a BIOS, I believe it is silicon hardwired hardware. The fact that atiflash "sees" the actual GPU core and is reading its BIOS means you have communications with the GPU core, I am more inclined to believe someone flashed a bad BIOS onto it and thus will not allow the memory to be accessed.

    does the card have any lights on it?
    Do you even get a wake from standby when it is the primary card with a monitor connected?
    winflash will allow you to flash the BIOS from within windows if you boot to another card, and at least have a look at the card to be sure it is getting assigned a IRQ, memory addresses, etc...
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
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    10 Million points folded for TPU
  23. Solaris17

    Solaris17 Creator Solaris Utility DVD

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    the R430 is the x800XL if its AGP with railto you dont need 2 diff bios's. If memory serves me right you only flash to 0 which is the railto segment as reported by ATI flash. you DO NOT flash to 1. With that in mind It shouldnt be hard trying to find a bios dump in an ancient thread. If you tell me how much mem your card has and the manu as well as the model I can look up what the clocks are supposed to be set at and modify a bios from another pcie>railto>agp card.
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  24. segalaw19800

    segalaw19800

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    That what I thought Thx... :respect:
  25. YodaBob

    YodaBob New Member

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    I Just Knew I'd Come to the Right Place...

    Very good discussion!

    I am very impressed with the depth of knowledge and sincere desire to help expressed in your replies. All of this over a 5 year old piece of hardware and several hard-headed people unwilling to let it hit the landfill... I'm definitely feeling the love!

    I've thrown a blanket over my test mule for the night. I'll load a boot disk with the most-likely list of BIOS's assembled in these pages and try flashing again tomorrow.

    atiflash -f -pa -newbios bestbios.bin;

    or any of a number of other possible iterations leading to a good outcome.

    For now, Segalaw's :toast: has me thinking about drinking...

    Cheers!

    Yoda

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